Patek Philippe Perpetual Calendar Chronographs
Discussion
Hi everyone,
Considering a 5270 as an upgrade to my current PP, open to any of the metals they are available in as I like most versions apart from the green dial 5270P which just does not appeal to me and maybe the rose gold bracelet 5270-1R version.
Also considering the 5320G which is 'just' a perpetual calendar, I love the salmon dial having seen it in person, more so than the cream colour dial even though that is very nice too, the salmon to me just looks and feels that bit more special.
I'd be really interested in hearing from any past or current owners of a 5270 especially.
What was your ownership experience of the watch like? Was it reliable? Anything in particular to look out for when buying?
I have to admit having a slight reservation regarding the 5270 being manual wind as a perpetual calendar, rules out using a watch winder although setting these watches is not that much of an issue (just convenience of winder) I have set a annual calendar many times its basically the same process/sequence.
The only other point is cost of perpetual vs perpetual chrono, basically 50k- probably impossible to say if worth it without owning both, and even then it's all relative. The finishing on the 5270 does seem at least a level up from the 5320 at least thats my impression so far, that may just be based on case back though as obviously it is a far more elaborate/decorated movement so looks more attractive than the plainer movement in the other watch.
I am considering a used watch vs AD purchase, the cost saving even if I have to service the watch at circa 2000+ is still massive, and makes service appear insignificant as saving depending on the watch/dealer/age etc is 55k-75k
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
Considering a 5270 as an upgrade to my current PP, open to any of the metals they are available in as I like most versions apart from the green dial 5270P which just does not appeal to me and maybe the rose gold bracelet 5270-1R version.
Also considering the 5320G which is 'just' a perpetual calendar, I love the salmon dial having seen it in person, more so than the cream colour dial even though that is very nice too, the salmon to me just looks and feels that bit more special.
I'd be really interested in hearing from any past or current owners of a 5270 especially.
What was your ownership experience of the watch like? Was it reliable? Anything in particular to look out for when buying?
I have to admit having a slight reservation regarding the 5270 being manual wind as a perpetual calendar, rules out using a watch winder although setting these watches is not that much of an issue (just convenience of winder) I have set a annual calendar many times its basically the same process/sequence.
The only other point is cost of perpetual vs perpetual chrono, basically 50k- probably impossible to say if worth it without owning both, and even then it's all relative. The finishing on the 5270 does seem at least a level up from the 5320 at least thats my impression so far, that may just be based on case back though as obviously it is a far more elaborate/decorated movement so looks more attractive than the plainer movement in the other watch.
I am considering a used watch vs AD purchase, the cost saving even if I have to service the watch at circa 2000+ is still massive, and makes service appear insignificant as saving depending on the watch/dealer/age etc is 55k-75k
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
The Orbita Sempre is a watch winder for manual watches and been around for 15+ years. Not cheap mind but then nor is the watch you are considering!
I dont have experience of these watches but for me
A. A 30 minute chronograph - how useful is this and will you be wearing the watch when needing this function.
B. An overly fussy dial complicated dial which will not be easy to read in poor light.
I dont have experience of these watches but for me
A. A 30 minute chronograph - how useful is this and will you be wearing the watch when needing this function.
B. An overly fussy dial complicated dial which will not be easy to read in poor light.
What a great problem to have! Out of interest, what is the PP that you are considering changing from?
I haven't seen either in the metal, so my opinion probably isn't worth paying too much attention to, but a couple of thoughts. The 5270 looks amazing, in any metal/dial combination, although I would be tempted by platinum - and possibly salmon as you mention it. Agree with DB15 re the comment on very busy, fussy dials, but that's just a taste thing - I probably couldn't appreciate it without a loupe. Also, manual wind, 65 hours power reserve, perpetual, and worn in a rotation... Yep, Sempre looks like a good idea.
I have a 5205 and the level of finishing seems similar to 5320, so would tend to agree based on photos that the finishing looks to be more impressive on the 5270 than the 5320, as it should. It's almost as nice as a Lange chrono, almost... Have you looked at the dataograph?
Ultimately, these sorts of things are a gut feel and preference when you see them and try them on. For the money you are looking to spend, if it were me, I would consider buying two watches, a chrono and a perpetual - which is what I did (ALS 1815 chrono and Moser Endeavour perpetual, but appreciate that the aesthetic is completely different). For a simpler salmon dial PP, why not a 6196P - that looks stunning IMO (and buy a perpetual or chrono too, obvs).
Definitely needs photos of the new watch though, especially if it's a 5270!
I haven't seen either in the metal, so my opinion probably isn't worth paying too much attention to, but a couple of thoughts. The 5270 looks amazing, in any metal/dial combination, although I would be tempted by platinum - and possibly salmon as you mention it. Agree with DB15 re the comment on very busy, fussy dials, but that's just a taste thing - I probably couldn't appreciate it without a loupe. Also, manual wind, 65 hours power reserve, perpetual, and worn in a rotation... Yep, Sempre looks like a good idea.
I have a 5205 and the level of finishing seems similar to 5320, so would tend to agree based on photos that the finishing looks to be more impressive on the 5270 than the 5320, as it should. It's almost as nice as a Lange chrono, almost... Have you looked at the dataograph?
Ultimately, these sorts of things are a gut feel and preference when you see them and try them on. For the money you are looking to spend, if it were me, I would consider buying two watches, a chrono and a perpetual - which is what I did (ALS 1815 chrono and Moser Endeavour perpetual, but appreciate that the aesthetic is completely different). For a simpler salmon dial PP, why not a 6196P - that looks stunning IMO (and buy a perpetual or chrono too, obvs).
Definitely needs photos of the new watch though, especially if it's a 5270!
Personally I prefer a straight QP with moon phase rather than the added chrono, although I can understand it if you need to scratch the 'Grand Complications' itch. To me a chrono belongs on a sports watch not a classic PP QP. Also not a fan of black dial with YG case.
Good luck on your search! Does it have to be PP? A Breguet QP Tourbillon would be my choice!
Good luck on your search! Does it have to be PP? A Breguet QP Tourbillon would be my choice!
Thanks to everyone for the feedback, much appreciated.
I have now sold my PP (5146 annual calendar) which I owned for a number of years, fortunately for a price I was very happy with as purchased pre 2021, and have also had a chance to try on a 5270P, although not yet a 5320G salmon dial which is the other watch I am seriously considering. I would probably also buy/am open to a 5327G, although unlike the former two I don't think there are any currently for sale in UK from a dealer I know or am familiar with and generally over the last few years I don't recall many ever being available at all.
I am only looking at Patek as other than Rolex I would like to keep things to one watch per brand for variety and diversity, and already have a Breguet, VC, JLC, etc and especially as I have sold what was my only Patek want to replace it with another one.
5270P
The salmon dial along with blue dial 5270G are my favourites from the range. I also have other gold watches i.e. yellow/rose so would prefer a white precious metal for this watch as it provides better balance in terms of a collection. Again, the blue dial 5270G which would cost circa 15k-20k less hardly ever comes up for sale in the UK, in fact I don't recall seeing one in the last few years maybe I am wrong but if there have been any for sale it has not been more than 1-2 so would appear it is a rare watch.
In terms of the 5270P specifically;
The watch is (obviously) beautiful, the dimensions are just about perfect in terms of wearability. It fit me perfectly but someone with a wrist bigger than mine at circa 18 cm could easily wear it, likewise a smaller wrist too, it is 41mm but does not wear big. I don't find the dial too busy at all, there are watches with busier dials I like, and equally, I find a dial can be too plain and too austere which I am not necessarily a fan of. I have always loved the 5290, and 5270; they are amazing watches and are a sort of exit watch in my ways.
It is a very very discreet and subtle watch. I could imagine myself wearing this daily, 99.9% of people would not notice it or give it a second look as the white metal and subdued, elegant salmon dial make sure of that. It is perhaps leaning towards being a bit too subtle, although I don't want to call it underwhelming? The price plays a role in that for sure, if this watch was 45k or 50k I would not have these thoughts, visually for e.g. I have to admit I found the rose gold JLC Duometre Quantieme Lunaire more visually impressive and I know last year a used example sold for not much over 18k! Lange wise I do like the Datograph Perpetual but not so much with grey dial, and would possibly opt for a Zeitwek Lange wise at some point as I just find it a more interesting and intriguing watch than their perpetuals.
Cost wise 5270P is a watch you buy with your heart vs your head as it suffers truly horrific depreciation, UK RRP is 195k for current production green dial variant, so buying at retail and wearing for a couple of years depending on how you sell, and who you sell too could be a loss of up to 100k, 80K for sure. Even if you get a Nautilus at retail after that you would probably still lose money. I am not keen on the green dial 5270P at all (no offence to any owners) so thats not an option for me regardless.
I am looking at a used example, which after going over the numbers in terms of selling, possible SOR, and negotiating on price it is at a point I am comfortable with, and potential loss which is very manageable for this level of watch- all based on situation today obviously but as I plan to hold for a number of years and only buying pre owned I am comfortable with the re-sale further down the line. Service wise, perhaps surprisingly the cost difference perpetual vs perpetual chrono is not significant at all, since only needs to be done once every 5 years and with 2 year warranty its not a factor affecting my decision making in terms of choosing one vs another.
Still keen to try a 5320G as I really like its vintage inspired case and its general aesthetic. The salmon colour is different from what I understand it is a deeper, pinker salmon more lacquer like, which I would ideally like to see as the 5270P has a smoky darker rose sort of salmon colour, which I do like a lot but would be good to compare and contrast.
Hopefully that was of help to anyone else making same or similar decision..
I have now sold my PP (5146 annual calendar) which I owned for a number of years, fortunately for a price I was very happy with as purchased pre 2021, and have also had a chance to try on a 5270P, although not yet a 5320G salmon dial which is the other watch I am seriously considering. I would probably also buy/am open to a 5327G, although unlike the former two I don't think there are any currently for sale in UK from a dealer I know or am familiar with and generally over the last few years I don't recall many ever being available at all.
I am only looking at Patek as other than Rolex I would like to keep things to one watch per brand for variety and diversity, and already have a Breguet, VC, JLC, etc and especially as I have sold what was my only Patek want to replace it with another one.
5270P
The salmon dial along with blue dial 5270G are my favourites from the range. I also have other gold watches i.e. yellow/rose so would prefer a white precious metal for this watch as it provides better balance in terms of a collection. Again, the blue dial 5270G which would cost circa 15k-20k less hardly ever comes up for sale in the UK, in fact I don't recall seeing one in the last few years maybe I am wrong but if there have been any for sale it has not been more than 1-2 so would appear it is a rare watch.
In terms of the 5270P specifically;
The watch is (obviously) beautiful, the dimensions are just about perfect in terms of wearability. It fit me perfectly but someone with a wrist bigger than mine at circa 18 cm could easily wear it, likewise a smaller wrist too, it is 41mm but does not wear big. I don't find the dial too busy at all, there are watches with busier dials I like, and equally, I find a dial can be too plain and too austere which I am not necessarily a fan of. I have always loved the 5290, and 5270; they are amazing watches and are a sort of exit watch in my ways.
It is a very very discreet and subtle watch. I could imagine myself wearing this daily, 99.9% of people would not notice it or give it a second look as the white metal and subdued, elegant salmon dial make sure of that. It is perhaps leaning towards being a bit too subtle, although I don't want to call it underwhelming? The price plays a role in that for sure, if this watch was 45k or 50k I would not have these thoughts, visually for e.g. I have to admit I found the rose gold JLC Duometre Quantieme Lunaire more visually impressive and I know last year a used example sold for not much over 18k! Lange wise I do like the Datograph Perpetual but not so much with grey dial, and would possibly opt for a Zeitwek Lange wise at some point as I just find it a more interesting and intriguing watch than their perpetuals.
Cost wise 5270P is a watch you buy with your heart vs your head as it suffers truly horrific depreciation, UK RRP is 195k for current production green dial variant, so buying at retail and wearing for a couple of years depending on how you sell, and who you sell too could be a loss of up to 100k, 80K for sure. Even if you get a Nautilus at retail after that you would probably still lose money. I am not keen on the green dial 5270P at all (no offence to any owners) so thats not an option for me regardless.
I am looking at a used example, which after going over the numbers in terms of selling, possible SOR, and negotiating on price it is at a point I am comfortable with, and potential loss which is very manageable for this level of watch- all based on situation today obviously but as I plan to hold for a number of years and only buying pre owned I am comfortable with the re-sale further down the line. Service wise, perhaps surprisingly the cost difference perpetual vs perpetual chrono is not significant at all, since only needs to be done once every 5 years and with 2 year warranty its not a factor affecting my decision making in terms of choosing one vs another.
Still keen to try a 5320G as I really like its vintage inspired case and its general aesthetic. The salmon colour is different from what I understand it is a deeper, pinker salmon more lacquer like, which I would ideally like to see as the 5270P has a smoky darker rose sort of salmon colour, which I do like a lot but would be good to compare and contrast.
Hopefully that was of help to anyone else making same or similar decision..
Chad_Hugo said:
Still keen to try a 5320G as I really like its vintage inspired case and its general aesthetic. The salmon colour is different from what I understand it is a deeper, pinker salmon more lacquer like, which I would ideally like to see as the 5270P has a smoky darker rose sort of salmon colour, which I do like a lot but would be good to compare and contrast.
These watches are a bit too rich for me - however the 5320G would be my pick... but they're both very beautiful.I really like the JLC Ultra Thin Perpetual too.
NDA said:
Chad_Hugo said:
Still keen to try a 5320G as I really like its vintage inspired case and its general aesthetic. The salmon colour is different from what I understand it is a deeper, pinker salmon more lacquer like, which I would ideally like to see as the 5270P has a smoky darker rose sort of salmon colour, which I do like a lot but would be good to compare and contrast.
These watches are a bit too rich for me - however the 5320G would be my pick... but they're both very beautiful.I really like the JLC Ultra Thin Perpetual too.
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