Bought a car where there is fraud in the chain of sale
Discussion
Thanks all, summary below with all the correct information I have now.
Had a bit of a rollercoaster with my dream car purchase recently, but all ok in the end. The police initially contacted me because it turned out the car I had bought 5 months prior was linked to a fraud case involving the person who owned it before the dealership I purchased it from bought it.
For a minute there, I thought I might lose the car or be out of pocket £35k, as I had been advised the car was purchased by the fraudster with a stolen credit card which meant that I did not have a valid title on the car as it was not the fraudsters car to sell. I was about to start the formal process of rejecting it to the dealer for a full refund and opened a dispute with my bank as a back up under section 57 as I paid the deposit on a credit card.
However, after speaking with the officer in charge a further time after they had my information and spoke to the dealer, it’s all been cleared up. It turns out it was employee at a company using a corporate card which they had been given and were allowed to use to buy the car originally. Because the purchase itself was 'legal' (even though the employee shouldn't have been purchasing private items), the legal title still passed correctly to the dealer, and then to me. Phew!
The police have confirmed the car is 100% mine and they’ve told me there’s no risk of it being seized they’re just 'following the money' to go after the person who misused the card as he has priors. I’ve now withdrawn my claim against the bank, and I’m keeping the car. Massive relief!"
Had a bit of a rollercoaster with my dream car purchase recently, but all ok in the end. The police initially contacted me because it turned out the car I had bought 5 months prior was linked to a fraud case involving the person who owned it before the dealership I purchased it from bought it.
For a minute there, I thought I might lose the car or be out of pocket £35k, as I had been advised the car was purchased by the fraudster with a stolen credit card which meant that I did not have a valid title on the car as it was not the fraudsters car to sell. I was about to start the formal process of rejecting it to the dealer for a full refund and opened a dispute with my bank as a back up under section 57 as I paid the deposit on a credit card.
However, after speaking with the officer in charge a further time after they had my information and spoke to the dealer, it’s all been cleared up. It turns out it was employee at a company using a corporate card which they had been given and were allowed to use to buy the car originally. Because the purchase itself was 'legal' (even though the employee shouldn't have been purchasing private items), the legal title still passed correctly to the dealer, and then to me. Phew!
The police have confirmed the car is 100% mine and they’ve told me there’s no risk of it being seized they’re just 'following the money' to go after the person who misused the card as he has priors. I’ve now withdrawn my claim against the bank, and I’m keeping the car. Massive relief!"
Edited by Jim on the hill on Wednesday 25th February 21:54
TonyF1 said:
The bank who issued the credit card own the car as they ultimately paid for it. Had similar where we owned a brand new M5 bought through a fraudulent personal loan. Car went to auction and that s your best hope as it s unlikely you ll be able to find out who which bank own the car.
Thanks, not sure why I didn't think of that. Going to have a chat with the police and see if they would be happy to pass my number to them as I'm sure the credit company would like it off their books. Using the refund from the dealer obviously, certainly don't want to pay twice no matter how much i like the car!Doesitdrive said:
, I would be putting pressure on the dealer who sold you it to either sort the issue or refund your money.
This will be part of the solution or the solution yes. Just trying to see if there is a better solution where the person who experienced the loss gets made right, I keep the car and I cooperate with the dealer so they can claim their loss through their insurers. Messy I know.
UK_Scat_Pack said:
I would be getting a refund from the dealership ASAP as if and when that car gets seized, you will be left with nothing!
Agreed, this could turn to a position where the car is legitimately taken from you ,and you will have nothing. You bought something from someone who did not own what they were selling.Return the car and get the full refund now .
Many years ago I used to collect cars , it's not an unusual situation you have described.
TonyF1 said:
The bank who issued the credit card own the car as they ultimately paid for it. Had similar where we owned a brand new M5 bought through a fraudulent personal loan. Car went to auction and that s your best hope as it s unlikely you ll be able to find out who which bank own the car.
It does not work like that. The credit card company will simply charge back the money from the merchant who sold the car.So the merchant owns the car. This is not a pcp or loan situation, in terms of next steps. It the dealers issue as he had no right to sell the car. I suspect they could settle the matter with the owner without issue. Ultimately it’s going to be treated as a civil matter.
fridaypassion said:
Dealer will probably request it back so they can back it to the auction or probably came through. The dealer has been defrauded here as well the hpi system is a mess and evidently they're was no marker on it when they got it.
There is no marker on it now which I find quite strange. I carried out another HPI yesterday. It's all very strange to me. Jim on the hill said:
fridaypassion said:
Dealer will probably request it back so they can back it to the auction or probably came through. The dealer has been defrauded here as well the hpi system is a mess and evidently they're was no marker on it when they got it.
There is no marker on it now which I find quite strange. I carried out another HPI yesterday. It's all very strange to me. It hasn't been written off.
There is no outstanding finance against it.
It hasn't been imported.
There is an ongoing investigation into its history that is likely to determine fraud, but that is ONGOING.
E-bmw said:
Jim on the hill said:
fridaypassion said:
Dealer will probably request it back so they can back it to the auction or probably came through. The dealer has been defrauded here as well the hpi system is a mess and evidently they're was no marker on it when they got it.
There is no marker on it now which I find quite strange. I carried out another HPI yesterday. It's all very strange to me. It hasn't been written off.
There is no outstanding finance against it.
It hasn't been imported.
There is an ongoing investigation into its history that is likely to determine fraud, but that is ONGOING.
I've got a letter ready to send special delivery stating I need to be refunded in 7 days under the consumer rights act as they didn't have the valid title the sell.
Also awaiting a callback from the manager as I want to chat it through, will be firm but ultimately they are a good dealer and I don't think anyone will want an owner deprived or a good car to be lost to the auction system.
A dealer friend got caught many moons ago.
Sold a cheap van, and allowed the buyer to pay by credit card, which turned out to be someone elses card.
Quite simple outcome, the credit card company clawed back the money from the supplying dealer (my friend)
That was the end of it for him, no idea if the credit card company pursued the van?
Please let us know the outcome OP.
Sold a cheap van, and allowed the buyer to pay by credit card, which turned out to be someone elses card.
Quite simple outcome, the credit card company clawed back the money from the supplying dealer (my friend)
That was the end of it for him, no idea if the credit card company pursued the van?
Please let us know the outcome OP.
Having paid the £500 deposit by credit card, it might be worth contacting the credit card provider.
I'm not sure what their liability is, but they should know the rules of the game and at least offer advice?
I expect they keep a pet lawyer in a basement somewhere?
It's at least polite to inform them as they may have skin in the game?
One point, the dealer will have paid trade for the car, you've paid retail.
If you end up returning the car, the trader has lost his profit as well as being in dispute with whoever sold it to him.
Basically as an end user, the car is worth more to you than to the trade.
Does the true owner actually want the car, or is he just wanting money, which will likely be trade-in price not retail?
Best of luck with it.
I'm not sure what their liability is, but they should know the rules of the game and at least offer advice?
I expect they keep a pet lawyer in a basement somewhere?
It's at least polite to inform them as they may have skin in the game?
One point, the dealer will have paid trade for the car, you've paid retail.
If you end up returning the car, the trader has lost his profit as well as being in dispute with whoever sold it to him.
Basically as an end user, the car is worth more to you than to the trade.
Does the true owner actually want the car, or is he just wanting money, which will likely be trade-in price not retail?
Best of luck with it.
Jim on the hill said:
Fast forward to yesterday: The police have contacted me. It turns out the car was originally obtained via credit card fraud prior to the dealer acquiring it. The "True Owner" (presumably an insurer or the original victim) is now asserting interest. The police aren't seizing it but have confirmed the title is "clouded."
Im surprised the Police are getting involved in a title dispute.Edited by Jim on the hill on Tuesday 24th February 09:09
If Hpi clear it hasn't been reported stolen.
Were they contacting you to assertain if you were involved in the fraud?
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