Changing the benefits system
Discussion
Have just overheard on the news that Blunket is talking about reforming the benefits system. Think they said it could be reduced by about £10 a week and also have a time limit on it for those who are capable of work.
I think the time limit thing is great as it would stop people relying on it but could still be there for those who really need it when inbetween jobs but still looking.
What are your views and does anyone know anymore on it?
I think the time limit thing is great as it would stop people relying on it but could still be there for those who really need it when inbetween jobs but still looking.
What are your views and does anyone know anymore on it?
Its to do with incapacity benefit-( not reform to all unemployment benefit). Basically those who are on incapacity benefit such as "chronic back pain" - will be encouraged to look for work . Blunkett wants an incentive system (I'm not sure what ) - Blair wants a more direct approach to get tHE "incapacitated" back to work.
Its amazing that as general health has improved over the past 20 years .......- the number of people getting paid incapacity benefit to not work has gone up by several hundred % IIRC.
Its amazing that as general health has improved over the past 20 years .......- the number of people getting paid incapacity benefit to not work has gone up by several hundred % IIRC.
Thats a great idea...
Needs to be more incentive to work.
I've always said that work dodgers should be made to work for 'benefits'
Nothing demeaning but all the stuff that costs us money... cleaning graffiti. maintaining street furniture etc. It would give people both an incentive to work and a positive feeling to people that are genuinely unemployed.
Might bring the council tax bill lower as well
Needs to be more incentive to work.
I've always said that work dodgers should be made to work for 'benefits'
Nothing demeaning but all the stuff that costs us money... cleaning graffiti. maintaining street furniture etc. It would give people both an incentive to work and a positive feeling to people that are genuinely unemployed.
Might bring the council tax bill lower as well
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Trouble is there are plenty of people with that mentality.
Scum!
I can't understand why you would want to screw the system for every penny for enough money to scrape a few pints. If they put that much effort into a real job they would fly.
Misguided, poorly educated, lazy fools... not that i'm narked subsidising their lifestyle or anything!
KingRichard said:
Trouble is there are plenty of people with that mentality.
Scum!
I can't understand why you would want to screw the system for every penny for enough money to scrape a few pints. If they put that much effort into a real job they would fly.
Misguided, poorly educated, lazy fools... not that i'm narked subsidising their lifestyle or anything!
Unfortunately there are some who get the equivalent of earning about £70,000 gross.
Study the BBC article and look in vain for any concrete policy pronouncements. It is simply spin to generate positive publicity.
Blunkett's work cure for welfare
Mr Blunkett's plans are not popular with some Labour MPs
Going out to work cures stress and depression much more effectively than watching daytime TV at home, says Work and Pensions Secretary David Blunkett.
He set out his "eight principles of welfare reform" as MPs return from their long summer break.
Some Labour MPs are unhappy at his plans to get many of the 2.7m people on incapacity benefit back into work.
But, he told BBC Radio: "If people... re-associate with the world of work, suddenly they come alive again."
"That will overcome depression and stress a lot more than people sitting at home watching daytime television."
'Liberation from dependence'
But the government's new, smaller majority could mean any suggestion that people are being forced back into work risks a defeat in the House of Commons.
BLUNKETT'S REFORM PRINCIPLES:
Help people to help themselves by a "ladder to self-reliance", not just a safety net in time of need
See work as the best route out of welfare
Enable people to make informed choices themselves
Balance rights with responsibilities, while recognising the need for support and care where appropriate
Promote "solidarity between generations", and the importance of using government resources to help people cope with rapid economic and social change
Ensure the role of the state is "active, liberating and enabling"
Address the root causes of poverty and overcome "intergenerational disadvantage and exclusion"
Invest in the potential of everyone, and flexibility of support in and out of work
Explained: Incapacity benefit
Mr Blunkett said there were four times the number of people claiming incapacity benefit than there were on invalidity benefit 30 years ago.
"Health has got better, medical science is improving by the day, technology has changed the nature of work so that people can work part-time," he said.
"We have a situation where we can offer people liberation from dependence in a way that was never possible before."
He pledged "a whole range of medical, social, therapeutic interventions to help people get off benefit and back into work".
Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt will unveil an occupational health programme later this year.
But shadow work and pensions secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind described the proposals as "vague and superficial".
"Issuing nothing but a 'statement of principles' seems a rather belated course of action after eight years in office," he said.
"This is bad news for all those people trapped on benefits who are desperate to get back into work."
Liberal Democrat spokesman David Laws said Tony Blair had been "meddling" in the reform plans.
"The prime minister seems more concerned about making short term savings in the benefits bill rather than the longer term savings from helping people into sustained employment," said Mr Laws.
Support
Mr Blunkett insisted the plans were "a radical review for a very different century".
"We are not actually talking about saying to people: 'We will give you benefits but it is entirely up to you to get on your bike and do this,'" he said.
"Of course we want to support people who need long-term care."
The voluntary organisation Arthritis Care said 19% of those on incapacity benefit suffered from muscular-skeletal conditions like arthrities.
It welcomed better help for people to find work but warned the impact of arthritis varied from day-to-day and flexible working hours could be important.
It was imperative people with arthritis did not fall foul of government targets aimed at removing them from incapacity benefit, the group said.
Earlier Mr Blunkett side-stepped questions about his private life and a TV satire based on it set for broadcast on Monday night.
"I'm getting on with the job," he said.
It's a serious amount of money that goes to fund people to be chavs. They are prefectly capable of working. There are loads of jobs out there, plus courses to enhance their learning and opportunities. There really is no excuse, I've been working since I was 14.
If they were in work, there'd be less money piled into benefits plus they could also pay tax...think of the extra money to improve the NHS and such like.
If they were in work, there'd be less money piled into benefits plus they could also pay tax...think of the extra money to improve the NHS and such like.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As more and more kids see their parents "earning" a living on benefits then all I can see is an increase of "like father like son".It isn't going to stop now,the Tony and Gordon show has to get the voters in somehow.(Why not use other people's money to pay them...oh they already do!)
and i've made millions of pairs of branded trainers To me, there are a number of problems:
We do have some people on incapacity whose problem appears to be that they are "sick of working" - however there are also people who have worked hard and have become incapacitated - society SHOULD look after THEM.
We have some people who clearly don't want to work - there are indeed jobs around but many of these people are almost unemployable - at least, I doubt many of you out there with your won businesses would want to employ them!
Lastly there ARE people who want to work and are having problems finding something they can do - we should help them, as the situation is normally temporary.
"To each according to their need, from each according to their ability" is not as daft as you think:
Look after those whose situation is genuine, and MAKE those who are able to work (and are obviously avoiding doing so) do SOMETHING to contribute to society. Even the US did this in the depression with the WPA. (Sorry - I'm not a liberal )
My oldest lad has taken deferred entry to Uni so that he can have a year working. He started today as a hospital theatre porter (at above miminum wage). The hospital was glad to have him - people apparently don't queue up to do those jobs.
Prof Beard
We do have some people on incapacity whose problem appears to be that they are "sick of working" - however there are also people who have worked hard and have become incapacitated - society SHOULD look after THEM.
We have some people who clearly don't want to work - there are indeed jobs around but many of these people are almost unemployable - at least, I doubt many of you out there with your won businesses would want to employ them!
Lastly there ARE people who want to work and are having problems finding something they can do - we should help them, as the situation is normally temporary.
"To each according to their need, from each according to their ability" is not as daft as you think:
Look after those whose situation is genuine, and MAKE those who are able to work (and are obviously avoiding doing so) do SOMETHING to contribute to society. Even the US did this in the depression with the WPA. (Sorry - I'm not a liberal
) My oldest lad has taken deferred entry to Uni so that he can have a year working. He started today as a hospital theatre porter (at above miminum wage). The hospital was glad to have him - people apparently don't queue up to do those jobs.
Prof Beard
Load of tosh.
They are on the verge of writing off £900 million because of inherent problems in administering the Tax Credit system. I reckon the write off will be closer to £2 billion.
Before they start lecturing benefit recipients on fraud etc what they really need to do is tidy up their own incompetence and they could save the rest of us £2 billion pounds.
They are on the verge of writing off £900 million because of inherent problems in administering the Tax Credit system. I reckon the write off will be closer to £2 billion.
Before they start lecturing benefit recipients on fraud etc what they really need to do is tidy up their own incompetence and they could save the rest of us £2 billion pounds.
Guy and his wife next to my Mum have never worked. Had 2 kids with club feet and lived off the various benefits. Had a disability car, social services put an extension on their house with downstairs bedroom etc which the children never used (the lodger was in it). I knew the lodger who told me they had tauight him how to feign back injury to get benefits. They bought their council house with benefit payments, had a nice caravan they spent the summer in in Cornwall or on the continent (popping back to sign on). Held large parties, built conservatories, played tennis in the garden. He ran a national aeromodelling show that took up months of his time, where they sold models made in the garden shed during the year and by mail order. Benefits agency never quite quick enough for him, despite numerous tip offs. Although he was caught working as a security guard once at the local supermarket whilst claiming he just went back to benefits.
15 years later, now both kids have turned 18 and the money has stopped they have handed the house back to the council ( I presume at market valuation) who intend to put a disabled family in it because of the facilities. Would rather make himself homelsss than work.
Work out how much the has taken over the past 15 years.
15 years later, now both kids have turned 18 and the money has stopped they have handed the house back to the council ( I presume at market valuation) who intend to put a disabled family in it because of the facilities. Would rather make himself homelsss than work.
Work out how much the has taken over the past 15 years.
perhaps they'll be able to afford the pensions we've already paid for then too 
. oh ffs these people have been claiming since thatcher commited treason. The bottom line is nobody gets £70k and life on benefits is shite. Ok sure some entrepeneurial wannabees show up and complain cos people with interlect dont want to work for £5.00 an our but so what, cheshire is full of loser busineessmen. get a grip 
Prof Beard said:
To me, there are a number of problems:
We do have some people on incapacity whose problem
SOME!! Prof Beard
Of the 3 million people claiming incapacity benefit it is estimated that 2 million of them are quite capable of work.
It is probably a situation that will only be resolved by making it more difficult to stay on welfare.
One idea might be for incapacity claimants to see a doctor employed by the DWP rather than a GP who will sign them off for an easy life.
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