Nicky Campbell- Why nobody s hiring young people
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002rh6t?partner...
Very interesting view points especially from the guy who works in a job centre who says it’s nothing to do with NI or minimum wage rises.
I’m telling everyone I know that under 25’s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the s
tshow hasn’t even started yet.
Very interesting view points especially from the guy who works in a job centre who says it’s nothing to do with NI or minimum wage rises.
I’m telling everyone I know that under 25’s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the s
tshow hasn’t even started yet. DSLiverpool said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002rh6t?partner...
Very interesting view points especially from the guy who works in a job centre who says it s nothing to do with NI or minimum wage rises.
I m telling everyone I know that under 25 s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the stshow hasn t even started yet.
There was a feature on TV yesterday about this; a group of perfectly decent 20-somethings all wanting to pursue their chosen subject but unable to find a job in it. A would-be photographer, a would-be graphic designer, a would-be something else... all nice people but they don't seem to grasp that maybe they CAN'T pursue whatever they want to do (as an employee) and take a Plan B for a while. Or as DSL says, start your own business, but they don't have the experience or spark to do that. Contrary to 21st-century upbringing, not everybody can be whatever they want to be. At the extreme end, I know a 20-something with a degree in physics who works in Asda Very interesting view points especially from the guy who works in a job centre who says it s nothing to do with NI or minimum wage rises.
I m telling everyone I know that under 25 s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the s
tshow hasn t even started yet. 
Precisely. Take a holding position for now.
I grew up in Ireland in the 70s when youth unemployment was way worse than it is in the UK. When I left school/college in 1976 the general consensus was grab whatever job you could - until you got a chance to go for something that you REALLY desired.
I grew up in Ireland in the 70s when youth unemployment was way worse than it is in the UK. When I left school/college in 1976 the general consensus was grab whatever job you could - until you got a chance to go for something that you REALLY desired.
Simpo Two said:
they don't seem to grasp that maybe they CAN'T pursue whatever they want to do (as an employee) and take a Plan B for a while.
I do some T-Level training at a college in TV and Film Production and there is certainly an unrealistic level of expectation amongst many of the students that the day after they finish college, they'll be on set for a Netflix epic or on a plane to Hollywood to direct the next Marvel movie. The problem is that the college do little to adjust these expectations and occasionally wheel in a former student who did manage to fall right into a decent role. I try to balance this by explaining that they're more likely to be paid min-wage to haul gear around for a company that does corporate videos - and that this is no bad thing and point out that is how Christopher Nolan started out. I'm not certain they fully grasp it though.
Building on the Nolan reference, have you seen this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW5WeBUrYmU&t=...
(UNEMPLOYED To WORLD-CLASS Cinematographer: Hoyte van Hoytema)
There’s a lot in there that is interesting and applicable to careers more generally.
(UNEMPLOYED To WORLD-CLASS Cinematographer: Hoyte van Hoytema)
There’s a lot in there that is interesting and applicable to careers more generally.
StevieBee said:
I do some T-Level training at a college in TV and Film Production and there is certainly an unrealistic level of expectation amongst many of the students that the day after they finish college, they'll be on set for a Netflix epic or on a plane to Hollywood to direct the next Marvel movie.
The problem is that the college do little to adjust these expectations and occasionally wheel in a former student who did manage to fall right into a decent role. I try to balance this by explaining that they're more likely to be paid min-wage to haul gear around for a company that does corporate videos - and that this is no bad thing and point out that is how Christopher Nolan started out. I'm not certain they fully grasp it though.
It's the result of watching endless tiktok influencer crap giving the impression you can be a millionaire by the time you're 20 just by hustling out some cheap chinese tat like make-up or juice drink. Ironically pushing all this influencer crap and giving kids their unrealistic expectations is exactly what DSLiverpool does for a living. The problem is that the college do little to adjust these expectations and occasionally wheel in a former student who did manage to fall right into a decent role. I try to balance this by explaining that they're more likely to be paid min-wage to haul gear around for a company that does corporate videos - and that this is no bad thing and point out that is how Christopher Nolan started out. I'm not certain they fully grasp it though.
We do our graduate recruitment in Cape Town, not the UK now. It's not huge volumes, maybe 6 a year, but this is recruitment that used to happen in London pre-2020. Graduates in South Africa are cheaper, want to work harder and are more ambitious. And are willing to go into an office a few days a week if needed. It's a shame.
DSLiverpool said:
I m telling everyone I know that under 25 s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the stshow hasn t even started yet.
Except of course they can’t. Most lack the basic knowledge to do either. Nothing new in that.tshow hasn t even started yet. My wife’s son is 25 & is obsessed with starting his own business. He appears to think however that this means he doesn’t have to actually do anything. To him his own business means freedom to do what he wants, when he wants, where he wants. Want it doesn’t involve is doing some hard graft. He’s had more side hustles than I can shake a stick at. All have been doomed from the start. He think they are brilliant & making him loads of money, because he does one thing a month that makes him £50.
He never has money & fells “trapped” because of that. No amount of explaining that if he got a basic job he’d at least have some cash coming in on a regular basis & he could do his business development/side hustle in the spare time. If these were any good they could soon take over from the basic job.
He just want to be rich but has no clue how to make it happen & won;t listen
clarkey said:
We do our graduate recruitment in Cape Town, not the UK now. It's not huge volumes, maybe 6 a year, but this is recruitment that used to happen in London pre-2020. Graduates in South Africa are cheaper, want to work harder and are more ambitious. And are willing to go into an office a few days a week if needed. It's a shame.
Half of our support team got outsourced to South Africa last year. First line support is now in the Philipines, second line support is now done in South Africa.Until last year, these support jobs were first jobs for youngsters in the UK, and the more able ones would go on to become consultants.
This is another reason why young people are not getting hired.
My view is unless you want to be a doctor, vet, solicitor or such like, going to university these days is a complete waste of time, having a £40,000 debt hanging around your neck.
All three of my lads went to university and have decent very well paid jobs, but they would have them anyway without a single qualification.
This is not knocking university, but it's not the bee all and end all.
All three of my lads went to university and have decent very well paid jobs, but they would have them anyway without a single qualification.
This is not knocking university, but it's not the bee all and end all.
GT03ROB said:
Except of course they can t. Most lack the basic knowledge to do either. Nothing new in that.
My wife s son is 25 & is obsessed with starting his own business. He appears to think however that this means he doesn t have to actually do anything. To him his own business means freedom to do what he wants, when he wants, where he wants. Want it doesn t involve is doing some hard graft. He s had more side hustles than I can shake a stick at. All have been doomed from the start. He think they are brilliant & making him loads of money, because he does one thing a month that makes him £50.
He never has money & fells trapped because of that. No amount of explaining that if he got a basic job he d at least have some cash coming in on a regular basis & he could do his business development/side hustle in the spare time. If these were any good they could soon take over from the basic job.
He just want to be rich but has no clue how to make it happen & won;t listen
It's really not difficult to make good money with a handful easy steps :My wife s son is 25 & is obsessed with starting his own business. He appears to think however that this means he doesn t have to actually do anything. To him his own business means freedom to do what he wants, when he wants, where he wants. Want it doesn t involve is doing some hard graft. He s had more side hustles than I can shake a stick at. All have been doomed from the start. He think they are brilliant & making him loads of money, because he does one thing a month that makes him £50.
He never has money & fells trapped because of that. No amount of explaining that if he got a basic job he d at least have some cash coming in on a regular basis & he could do his business development/side hustle in the spare time. If these were any good they could soon take over from the basic job.
He just want to be rich but has no clue how to make it happen & won;t listen
a. pick a trade where there will always be a demand.
b. learn trade and get good at it.
c. respond to queries and requests for quotes..
d. develop customer skills that involve more than grunting.
e go above and beyond to respond to and deal with any problems that may arise during or after the work
f. remain professional, keep your word, don't let people down.
After a couple of dozen jobs you'll never need to advertise again as all your business will come from recommendations from those customers.
Any manual labour trade in the 'domestic' market is a licence to print money if you master #B.
The problem is the kids just want to become millionaires from sitting on their arse all day on the internet. That instantly makes achieving same 100x harder because everything they can do, so can Pajeet in Bengaluru for £2.50, and as you've noted, very very few of them are prepared to listen to the wise heads nor are they willing to put any long-term effort in because they all have the attention span of a gnat. That's why they'll all stay working in Lidl and Aldi busting their guts doing 2 jobs concurrently (shelf stacker and till operator) for one wage, or more likely sitting at home being bankrolled by mum and dad whilst they mope around with a "woe is me" face and whining that the entire world is against them and unfair.
StevieBee said:
I do some T-Level training at a college in TV and Film Production and there is certainly an unrealistic level of expectation amongst many of the students that the day after they finish college, they'll be on set for a Netflix epic or on a plane to Hollywood to direct the next Marvel movie.
The problem is that the college do little to adjust these expectations and occasionally wheel in a former student who did manage to fall right into a decent role. I try to balance this by explaining that they're more likely to be paid min-wage to haul gear around for a company that does corporate videos - and that this is no bad thing and point out that is how Christopher Nolan started out. I'm not certain they fully grasp it though.
And more importantly - to be in with a shot of getting Nolan-level good, that low-level learning the trade is exactly what is needed. That's where they gain an understanding of how things work, how to do more with less, build a network of trusted colleagues, etc.The problem is that the college do little to adjust these expectations and occasionally wheel in a former student who did manage to fall right into a decent role. I try to balance this by explaining that they're more likely to be paid min-wage to haul gear around for a company that does corporate videos - and that this is no bad thing and point out that is how Christopher Nolan started out. I'm not certain they fully grasp it though.
People that get dropped-into roles far beyond their experience rarely last long.
Tisy said:
It's really not difficult to make good money with a handful easy steps :
a. pick a trade...
Any manual labour trade in the 'domestic' market is a licence to print money.
It's certainly at a peak just now, but almost any competent and articulate tradesman can more or less name their price. They don't even have to be great, but such is the shortage of decent trades that turning up on time and doing a not-obviously-sa. pick a trade...
Any manual labour trade in the 'domestic' market is a licence to print money.
t job will get them enough work to earn a living. If they're actually good, can do things like answer the phone and show up, maybe organise a couple of other half-decent tradesmen, they have a licence to print money.It's partly to do with the current vogue of "you're special and wonderful and you can be anything you want to be", mixed with a stream of Youtube/Tiktok/etc shills claiming that you can earn loads of money by doing very little. In many cases, that's putting videos on Youtube/Tiktok/etc telling people you can earn loads of money by doing very little.
shtu said:
It's certainly at a peak just now, but almost any competent and articulate tradesman can more or less name their price. They don't even have to be great, but such is the shortage of decent trades that turning up on time and doing a not-obviously-st job will get them enough work to earn a living. If they're actually good, can do things like answer the phone and show up, maybe organise a couple of other half-decent tradesmen, they have a licence to print money.
It's partly to do with the current vogue of "you're special and wonderful and you can be anything you want to be", mixed with a stream of Youtube/Tiktok/etc shills claiming that you can earn loads of money by doing very little. In many cases, that's putting videos on Youtube/Tiktok/etc telling people you can earn loads of money by doing very little.
Exactly ! And the Tiktok scene is brimming with influencer types showing how great their life is in their rented penthouse apartment for an hour, along with their rented supercar, and you too could have the same if you buy the crap I'm hustling !! And it won't take you more than 1 hour a day!!t job will get them enough work to earn a living. If they're actually good, can do things like answer the phone and show up, maybe organise a couple of other half-decent tradesmen, they have a licence to print money.It's partly to do with the current vogue of "you're special and wonderful and you can be anything you want to be", mixed with a stream of Youtube/Tiktok/etc shills claiming that you can earn loads of money by doing very little. In many cases, that's putting videos on Youtube/Tiktok/etc telling people you can earn loads of money by doing very little.
Impressionable kids fall for it every time. Typically these influencer types are cute and fit , hence how they got their followers and clicks in the first place. The businesses underneath them know exactly how to exploit them and there are plenty of sharks lurking in the pool ready to lure these kids in with a worthless course or consultancy session to take their tat "to the next level".
Simpo Two said:
DSLiverpool said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002rh6t?partner...
Very interesting view points especially from the guy who works in a job centre who says it s nothing to do with NI or minimum wage rises.
I m telling everyone I know that under 25 s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the stshow hasn t even started yet.
There was a feature on TV yesterday about this; a group of perfectly decent 20-somethings all wanting to pursue their chosen subject but unable to find a job in it. A would-be photographer, a would-be graphic designer, a would-be something else... all nice people but they don't seem to grasp that maybe they CAN'T pursue whatever they want to do (as an employee) and take a Plan B for a while. Or as DSL says, start your own business, but they don't have the experience or spark to do that. Contrary to 21st-century upbringing, not everybody can be whatever they want to be. At the extreme end, I know a 20-something with a degree in physics who works in Asda Very interesting view points especially from the guy who works in a job centre who says it s nothing to do with NI or minimum wage rises.
I m telling everyone I know that under 25 s need to start their own business or at least a sidehustle as the s
tshow hasn t even started yet. One said she'd sent out over 200 job applications in 2 years and got nothing back.
I remember when I left school, I physically wrote over 200 letters (postage was much cheaper then) and applied for countless jobs in the space of about 3 months. She's probably emailed her CV to 'info' email addresses and then not followed them up with a call.
They expect others to do the hard work for them.
In the meantime I had 3 part time jobs whilst I waiting for responses and interviews which lead to my first job.
None of which were great, but at least I was earning money. It also gave me a good work ethic.
I still maintain that this self entitlement all comes from getting a badge for participation in the school sports day.
Years ago you got a badge or medal for 1st , 2nd or 3rd. Anything less and you just had to work harder!
StevieBee said:
I try to balance this by explaining that they're more likely to be paid min-wage to haul gear around for a company that does corporate videos - and that this is no bad thing and point out that is how Christopher Nolan started out. I'm not certain they fully grasp it though.
This is the way into the industry - start from the bottom, learn, work up, learn, be in the right place when the regular person is missing and hope for a break.Many moons ago I sometimes worked with a big regional production company as a producer. One day a young chap came in and was very keen to learn the trade. No positions available, so he made the tea and any other little task that needed to be done. He had a great attitude and also talent; he'd sit in with the editors and see how it was done. When the editor was away, he'd have a go. Very soon he was a competent editor and a few years after that he was in London making TV commercials. It's done on merit, not degrees.
shtu said:
And more importantly - to be in with a shot of getting Nolan-level good, that low-level learning the trade is exactly what is needed. That's where they gain an understanding of how things work, how to do more with less, build a network of trusted colleagues, etc.
People that get dropped-into roles far beyond their experience rarely last long.
The Hoyte van Hoytema video that I linked to addresses much of that: indeed he basically admits that you wouldn’t want to watch his early stuff.People that get dropped-into roles far beyond their experience rarely last long.
(For anyone who doesn’t know, Hoyte is a cinematographer whose work includes Spectre, Interstellar, and Oppenheimer.)
All these comments regarding 'influencers' and 'instagram schemes' and the like...... it's nothing new. Back in the 80s and 90s we had no end of multi-level marketing opportunities pushed down our throats at every opportunity - just sign up two people and you could be earning £500k a month. Brochures and sales videos of tanned dudes driving their Testarossa to their yacht with the slogan; "This could be you!". Many got suckered into this (including me!) but quickly realised the futility of it. What's happening on Instagram is exactly the same.
All this does is mask a more wide-reaching, deeper issue that's making it harder for kids to get a decent start in a career because the vast majority of them - by orders of many magnitude, have no interest in selling tat online or becoming the next Alan Sugar - they just want a job and / or a career.
All this does is mask a more wide-reaching, deeper issue that's making it harder for kids to get a decent start in a career because the vast majority of them - by orders of many magnitude, have no interest in selling tat online or becoming the next Alan Sugar - they just want a job and / or a career.
StevieBee said:
...they just want a job and / or a career.
Yes, by only working a maximum of 1 hour per day, with the option of just not bothering at all if they don't feel like it this week, and also expect the moon on a stick and the ground they walk on to be worshipped.,all because social media and the handwringers have told them all that they are special and to not accept any less.Kids' expectations vs reality are light years apart.
The handful of kids that have been brought up right and are willing to learn and be mentored (such as Simpo's example) will do well and go far
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