Vintage Champagne

[oddman]

Big Birthday coming up for a friend and I so want to take along special bottle to celebrate.

Not a massive fan of champagne but on the rare occasions I've had vintage champagne, I've enjoyed it, Bollinger Grand Annee 1996 being partcularly memorable.

I'm one of the weirdos that doesn't mind a bit of oxidation/sherry creeping in. Also interested in smaller growers if anyone has a recommendation. At the moment I'm thinking Veuve or Bollinger. Won't stretch to Crystal or Krug and don't want to embarrass friends with that level of vulgarity.

Need reliable delivery by the weekend

[LooneyTunes]

We ve opened these in the past couple of months.

NV:
Selosse (especially given the oxidative comment). The rose is especially fine, on the white front either Initiale or Substance always goes down well.
Egly Ouriet VP

Otherwise on the vintage front, with a bit of age:

Comtes 06
Comtes 07 Rose
Cristal 08 (set your preconceived ideas aside, it is excellent!)
Dom 13

Veuve 2002 / 250th anniversary is also very good and keenly priced if you can find it. Only in mags.

I d happily drink any of them again which in some cases is quite fortunate given we have more.

ETA: of all of those, as a gift I d either go Comtes (pretty much any vintage) or Egly VP if giving to a wino.

ETA2: Billecart Elizabeth 07 rose was also good.

Edited by LooneyTunes on Tuesday 17th February 12:02

[oddman]

Cheers

I've gone for the Egly Ouriet VP. Sounds like it's spot on from release. Other thing is although great fans of Champagne, my friends tend to stick to the Grandes Marques so should be a treat for them

Appreciate Crystal is a great wine but the Lucozade packaging and the celebrity associations bring out the snob in me.

[Lotobear]

Go for the Krug but balance the vulgarity, a la Jeffrey Archer, by having it with shepherds pie

[LooneyTunes]

Egly VP is lovely stuff. Really is top drawer grower champagne and, with the extended time on lees, has a wonderful complexity but without tipping over into being nerdy and harder to appreciate (like some of the lieu dit champagnes can be).

Definitely drinkable from release, but can take further post-disgorgement aging. Don't recall ever opening a bottle and people not enjoying it - hopefully you/your friends also like it!

Completely get it with Cristal... MrsLT hates the blinginess but, in spite of that, it still takes her top champagne spot. Aside from wine dinners, which don't really count, I think I've only ever bought/consumed one bottle in public... I'd be lying if I said I wasn't looking forward to trying the '13, which is apparently even better than the '08.

[Mobile Chicane]

Lotobear said:

Go for the Krug but balance the vulgarity, a la Jeffrey Archer, by having it with shepherds pie

Krug and KFC are a match made in Heaven.

[Lotobear]

Joking aside, and I'm not a fan of champagne and know very little about it, whenever I've had Pol Roger I enjoy it and unlike other champagnes it never seems to give me heartburn

[Arrivalist]

I’m a big champagne fan and have to agree with the above, Pol Roger every time for me. Light, dry and easy on the palette.

I might stray for a very special occasion, but even then I might stay with PR.

[nikaiyo2]

If you want a champagne with some punch to it the obvious answer is Pol Roger Cuvee Sir Winston Churchill isn’t it?

Charles Heidsieck Blanc des Millénaires Is meant to be a great alternative according to the chap in the wine shop, but never tried it personally yet.

Also I think Perrier Jouet Belle Epoch is massively underrated, if quite different to PRWC., the best for a summer garden party.

[bigmowley]

Another Pol fan here. Our house champagne is Pol. White label for quaffing, the excellent gold label Blanc de Blanc or black label Brut for nice meals and the Sir Winston for special occasions. The Rose is nice for a change although it can be bettered in my opinion. I like the Demi Sec with the right pairings although I am not a fan of the silver label Pure.
Hats off to Sir Winston Churchill he called that one right

[LooneyTunes]

nikaiyo2 said:

Also I think Perrier Jouet Belle Epoch is massively underrated, if quite different to PRWC., the best for a summer garden party.

It’s not bad, and certainly has a pretty bottle… but for me the underrated of the relatively mainstream are:
Of the standard cuvées, Billecart Salmon and Lanson.
Then as you move up a notch, Jacquesson.
Moving up again, Taittinger Comtes and Laurent-Perrier Grand Siecle.

The key is figuring out what styles you like. Personally I tend to veer towards either blanc de blanc or rose.

If you’re serving something good, don’t over chill, consider ditching the flutes in favour of white wine glasses and don’t rule out decanting.

[nikaiyo2]

LooneyTunes said:

It s not bad, and certainly has a pretty bottle but for me the underrated of the relatively mainstream are:
Of the standard cuvées, Billecart Salmon and Lanson.
Then as you move up a notch, Jacquesson.
Moving up again, Taittinger Comtes and Laurent-Perrier Grand Siecle.

The key is figuring out what styles you like. Personally I tend to veer towards either blanc de blanc or rose.

If you re serving something good, don t over chill, consider ditching the flutes in favour of white wine glasses and don t rule out decanting.

Yup Billecart Salmon is excellent always used to get that in odbins lol

[Arrivalist]

nikaiyo2 said:

Yup Billecart Salmon is excellent always used to get that in odbins lol

That and Laurent Perrier Rosé was always a go to of mine at our local Oddbins before the demise.

[Regbuser]

Also worth a try:

BdN Eric Rodez
BdN Roederer
BdN Philipponnat

[jimmythingy]

Hello,
I’ve always enjoyed a glass of Champagne, but I’ll admit I’m a total novice when it comes to buying it myself. I’m looking to branch out, but the price tags are a bit intimidating.
I’ve always been under the impression that you have to spend a fortune to get a "good" bottle, especially if it’s a vintage butt what is the actual price point I should be looking at for something quality?
I’ve seen some of the names mentioned above but what do these typically cost? Also, is there a specific price point when you move into the vintage category, or are there hidden gems that won't break the bank?
Would love some advice on where the sweet spot is for value vs. quality

[oddman]

Although knowledgeable and experienced in other wine styles, champagne is my blind spot Hence my OP. Mainly because it s an outrageous rip off. There is no French AC where the yield per hectare is higher. The grapes, historically have been grown at the northern geological/physiological limit for ripening and even by French standards the relationships between grower, maker and bottler/marketer are obscure. So it s a recipe for poor quality and disguised by marketing and bubbles.

So at the £40 price point you could probably get better Crémants and English wine. However for something really special, I think there s no substitute for vintage champagne. The good stuff, is in the region of what you'd pay for a case of decent Claret or Côtes du Rhône

I ve got a few little celebrations coming up so hoping to learn more. Be interesting what the aficionados have to say

Edited by oddman on Saturday 21st February 08:31

[Regbuser]

Okay oddman, what style do you like?
Uncompromisingly light and crisp? More acidic? Less acidic, grassy? Deeper for accompanying food? Rose? Fine mousse, often a sign of vintage?

As above, I'm a fan of Blanc de Noirs, because most is drunk with canapes.

Also, look at larger formats, as they're cheaper per glass, and make a nice impression at a gathering.

[LooneyTunes]

Arrivalist said:

nikaiyo2 said:

Yup Billecart Salmon is excellent always used to get that in odbins lol

That and Laurent Perrier Rosé was always a go to of mine at our local Oddbins before the demise.

Oddbins used to have some gems: I even remember buying Grange in our local one. In fact I think the 707 I have in the cellar may have come from Oddbins.

jimmythingy said:

Hello,
I ve always enjoyed a glass of Champagne, but I ll admit I m a total novice when it comes to buying it myself. I m looking to branch out, but the price tags are a bit intimidating.
I ve always been under the impression that you have to spend a fortune to get a "good" bottle, especially if it s a vintage butt what is the actual price point I should be looking at for something quality?
I ve seen some of the names mentioned above but what do these typically cost? Also, is there a specific price point when you move into the vintage category, or are there hidden gems that won't break the bank?
Would love some advice on where the sweet spot is for value vs. quality

First off, vintage isn’t necessarily better. The Egly and Selosse offerings mentioned are non-vintage champagnes. Selosse rose is world class (and priced higher than) lots of vintage roses that people might assume were better solely on the basis that they’re vintages.

The mainstream brands aren’t bad. I don’t get on well with Moët but will happily drink a glass or two of Veuve or Taittinger. Nothing at all wrong with them, indeed there’s an “emergency” bottle of Veuve in our fridge at all times, just more basic than their higher end offerings. They’re probably around £50/btl? (My pricing may be a bit off because I tend to bulk buy and/or buy vintages when they’re first released and cellar them)

The prestige cuvées are typically 2-4x the basic ones. For example, Taittinger Comtes de Champagne, their vintage/premium offering, is usually £120-150 range but a very significant step up in quality. It’s a bit cheaper than Dom Perignon (Moët’s premium offering) and significantly cheaper than Cristal (Roederer’s premium offering).

Champagne can be a blend of Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, and Pinot Meunier and each house has its own style and produces wines using its own preferred blend of grapes. They generally aim, with the non-vintage wine, for year on year consistency. If you find one you like, stick with it or search out ones that are similar.

You might see “blanc de blanc” or “blanc de noir” on some labels. A blanc de blanc is only Chardonnay, blanc de noir comprises only the Pinots. They’re quite different as a result, and a matter of personal taste as to which is better.

The best overall value is probably with small producer grower champagnes. They’re not all good and often have quite distinctive styles. It’d be easy to try one, not like it, and decide you don’t like champagne. Personally I’d suggest figuring out what style you like before exploring that territory. When you do, there are importers/merchants away from the big names who have decent portfolios of smaller producers on their books.

For anyone interested in champagne, you really can’t beat a visit to one of the producers to learn about the process. All of the big houses run them (albeit they focus on the mystique of the higher end production rather than the mass-production side).

Regbuser said:

Also, look at larger formats, as they're cheaper per glass, and make a nice impression at a gathering.

When it comes to wines of all styles I love large formats. Fun fact specific to champagne: most producers don’t age their champagnes in sizes above magnum. Larger sizes are generally filled post-disgorgement. They’re still worth buying, but have the potential to not age as well as mags.

[oddman]

Regbuser said:

Okay oddman, what style do you like?
Uncompromisingly light and crisp? More acidic? Less acidic, grassy? Deeper for accompanying food? Rose? Fine mousse, often a sign of vintage?

As above, I'm a fan of Blanc de Noirs, because most is drunk with canapes.

Also, look at larger formats, as they're cheaper per glass, and make a nice impression at a gathering.

For NV I like something dry, relatively low acid which delivers on bouquet - floral and fruity. Something that doesn't need food and invites another glass or two (rather than thinking - 'fk this let's get stuck into a proper wine'). I don't like the more austere versions that are like a bad thin Chablis with bubbles. TBF I think, because champagne pushes at the edges of tolerable dryness and acidity, it exposes the difference between our perceptions of taste in a way table wines don't. Also anything faulty, nasty or odd, like sulphur, really gets amplified by bubbles - I really don't like that chemically pear drop note that seems to infest Prosecco and other method wines

For vintage, I quite like something more oily, maybe even a bit sherried and able to stand up to more challenging food than the usual smoked salmon and oysters - small game birds like partridge, woodcock and snipe, smoked pigeon breasts - that kind of thing.

[Regbuser]

Given it is the weekend as per the OP, what did you go for?

For making an impression, and toasting the occasion, I'd be inclined to take this 2011 3 btl gift box



Also, a very good small champagne house > https://lasseaux.com/ < have bought several cases from Vincent (he's in the UK).

Edited by Regbuser on Saturday 21st February 10:24