Infrastructure failures
Discussion
Those from Essex will get it lol.
Why can we not do things on time and on budget. ?
This has delayed at first, and apparently now cancelled a new underpass to replace the A13 lodge flyover, apparently they are going to build a new flyover.
Perhaps this time they won't lose any pieces of the jig saw.
Rivenink said:
Doesitdrive said:
Why can we not do things on time and on budget. ?
.
Corruption. .
Why do it right first time when you can make a mint from the taxpayers.
https://ukfoundations.co/
Also at least one video on the IEA YouTube channel.
Rivenink said:
Doesitdrive said:
Why can we not do things on time and on budget. ?
.
Corruption. .
Why do it right first time when you can make a mint from the taxpayers.
More likely a very congested country, with an abundance of local legislation and a sluggish public sector system to support through it. Also a constant need to check for every newt, bat, badger, co2 implication, biodiversity and constant public unwillingness to compromise and ignorance at how complicated and expensive it all is.
Additionally we're an island, brexit and are fearful of spending any money on stuff that matters. Most of all... we have a painfully ignorant and narrow minded population.
Edit.. I also struggle to spell Newt.
Edited by Andeh1 on Monday 16th February 21:28
Doesitdrive said:
Those from Essex will get it lol.
Why can we not do things on time and on budget. ?
This has delayed at first, and apparently now cancelled a new underpass to replace the A13 lodge flyover, apparently they are going to build a new flyover.
Perhaps this time they won't lose any pieces of the jig saw.
Andeh1 said:
Rivenink said:
Doesitdrive said:
Why can we not do things on time and on budget. ?
.
Corruption. .
Why do it right first time when you can make a mint from the taxpayers.
More likely a very congested country, with an abundance of local legislation and a sluggish public sector system to support through it. Also a constant need to check for every neut, bat, badger, co2 implication, biodiversity and constant public unwillingness to compromise and ignorance at how complicated and expensive it all is.
Edited by Andeh1 on Monday 16th February 21:26
There are lots of now quasi autonomous bodies that work brilliantly at their original task of adhering to the terms of their remit and and exceptionally good at ensuring the remit is met (whether it be environmental, societal, economic etc). As explicitly authorised by government to effectively remove a problem from the ‘plate’.
The problem that central gov runs into is that they all have a legal entitlement and indeed a requirement to assess.
Which then is returned in metric tonnes of paper and assessment.
System behaving as designed re one authority or quango. Now square or cube the resultant mess and you get log jam.
All well intended. All as per design. All the result of government shrinkage and the outsourcing of assessment.
So that the resulting smorgasbord is the most astonishing (and in some cases hundreds of bodies) tiers of assessment. None of which provide added value but were designed to protect government.
The end result is inertia.
It s been whinged about for years but no government really wants to address the core issue:
They can t outsource assessment of decision making, and day to day administration, and then complain that the system is unresponsive or slow.
If you want rapid decision making internalise the various quango systems but be prepared for the blow back re why the quangos were created in the first place: to put government at an arms length from difficult decisions.
They can t outsource assessment of decision making, and day to day administration, and then complain that the system is unresponsive or slow.
If you want rapid decision making internalise the various quango systems but be prepared for the blow back re why the quangos were created in the first place: to put government at an arms length from difficult decisions.
Edited by Ridgemont on Monday 16th February 22:11
I'm in local governmentfinace, but not close to construction.
However, a cause might just be capacity (assuming this is an la and not highways england)
Local government doesn't do return on investment like the private sector. Yes, theoretically there is a "return" on road investment, but it will never accrue to the council directly.
But the LA also has to maintain all the roads with a fixed highway capacity (typically outsourced) it has set itself from all the competing political and service priorities.
So although a job "could" be done quicker in a logistic sense, there is not the cash or person power to do it,even if politically it was desired.
So widget inc might spend 24-7 to get its new profitable widget machine working so it can maximise returns.
But a council can't pull resources away from homelessness, child & adult social care or highway repairs to finish infrastructure quickly - why would it?. Or agree to borrow to do the job quicker than the cheapest time, as it would just saddle future years with the borrowing cost.
Plus, add in all the usual stuff like design, planning, procurement (takes ages) and that's assuming there is no snag and that's why infrastructure creeps forward - in my view.
Regarding corruption- there have been several instances i know where private contractors do take the opportunity to scam tax payers.
I think a lot of councils are getting wise to this now- mine is, and has reestablished the team to manage the highway contractor (cost £150k - estimated saving about £1m per year). Bizarre this team has been cut some years back in an emergency 15% headcount reduction last ditch effort to try and keep council tax under 5%.
There is also some white collar corruption i think, but we can't really prove if outsourcing firms operate an informal cartel. The large infrastructure firms have got the public sector like fish in a barrel after all, as a council simply couldn't rehire its own workforce like it had "back in the day".
But because they recover their entire organisation's overheads per job, it throws up ridiculous sums like tens of thousands to install a zebra crossing (i saw one at £100k once)
However, a cause might just be capacity (assuming this is an la and not highways england)
Local government doesn't do return on investment like the private sector. Yes, theoretically there is a "return" on road investment, but it will never accrue to the council directly.
But the LA also has to maintain all the roads with a fixed highway capacity (typically outsourced) it has set itself from all the competing political and service priorities.
So although a job "could" be done quicker in a logistic sense, there is not the cash or person power to do it,even if politically it was desired.
So widget inc might spend 24-7 to get its new profitable widget machine working so it can maximise returns.
But a council can't pull resources away from homelessness, child & adult social care or highway repairs to finish infrastructure quickly - why would it?. Or agree to borrow to do the job quicker than the cheapest time, as it would just saddle future years with the borrowing cost.
Plus, add in all the usual stuff like design, planning, procurement (takes ages) and that's assuming there is no snag and that's why infrastructure creeps forward - in my view.
Regarding corruption- there have been several instances i know where private contractors do take the opportunity to scam tax payers.
I think a lot of councils are getting wise to this now- mine is, and has reestablished the team to manage the highway contractor (cost £150k - estimated saving about £1m per year). Bizarre this team has been cut some years back in an emergency 15% headcount reduction last ditch effort to try and keep council tax under 5%.
There is also some white collar corruption i think, but we can't really prove if outsourcing firms operate an informal cartel. The large infrastructure firms have got the public sector like fish in a barrel after all, as a council simply couldn't rehire its own workforce like it had "back in the day".
But because they recover their entire organisation's overheads per job, it throws up ridiculous sums like tens of thousands to install a zebra crossing (i saw one at £100k once)
Rivenink said:
Corruption.
Why do it right first time when you can make a mint from the taxpayers.
This. I think we are really slow to call out corruption, thinking it's something that happens in other countries. It is much easier on our perception of ourselves to think that our own officials might be hesitant to disturb bats or over eager to preserve some historic site, but certainly not abusing their position to line their pockets. If a fairly minor improvement like this ends up taking years and costing multiples of what it should because dozens of people have to be paid off or somehow mollified along the way, the net result is the same.Why do it right first time when you can make a mint from the taxpayers.
valiant said:
Re Gallows Corner, doesn t they find a knackered water main when taking down the old flyover which had to be replaced before continuing?
This is also a good point! Un expected pipes, cables , drains, any damage caused by non listed locations.... Huge knock on impact.We spent 2 years building a new house, on week 1 of demolition builder severed a 100kva supply cable to village which was later found to be about 2m away from where the paperwork said it was. Took 4 days of round the clock repair work from several guys from local power company.
That was a really s
tty week.Also went 15% over budget, and took 30% longer then expected. Nothing corrupt, underhand, or incompetent about it.... Just a huge range of variables that really added up. But the whole process spent 6 months waiting for planning and local regulation stuff, which was relatively quick and pain free to what it could have been.
This one is local to me. Absolute shambles. Many believe it will never reopen
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/25718559.project...
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/25718559.project...
steveatesh said:
Planning legislation .. see the U.K. foundations report on growth in the U.K., and why we take ages to build anything compared to the rest of the world.
https://ukfoundations.co/
Also at least one video on the IEA YouTube channel.
That s a very interesting report, I read the main sections. https://ukfoundations.co/
Also at least one video on the IEA YouTube channel.
In Northern Ireland we love a good court case and round of money wasting. The A5 dualing project is over £150m in without it getting started because of constant court proceedings and challenges. The total cost of construction is expected to be around £2bn which we know will be a massive underestimate. For that reason and others I hope it doesn t go ahead. It s not really needed.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northe...
Sorry it s behind a paywall for me too but shocking costs outlined and what locals have said.
Edited by MercedesClassic on Tuesday 17th February 15:34
The Ferret said:
This one is local to me. Absolute shambles. Many believe it will never reopen
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/25718559.project...
What a total shttps://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/25718559.project...
t show.It’s almost funny the Chinese built a 1300km high speed railway in a shorter time. Obviously I’m not suggesting the two projects don’t have dissimilarities but come on…
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