BBC article on university costs seems way off the mark?

[Foss62]

I've just been reading this article on the BBC website: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyegp0dnq9o

Having come across the 'headline' financial figure before (£61,000 living only costs for a three year degree) and discussing it with my own student children, I'm at a loss as to understand how it is arrived at?

My two are studying in a large northern city and a large south coast one respectively. Both are at Russell Group institutions and both have gone down the 'standard' route of halls in year one, followed by privately rented houses shared with other student friends. Neither me nor Mrs. Foss have played any executive part in their decision making (except signing guarantor forms as required) and neither child is living anything other than a normal student life - including drinking, clubbing, even some cheap (YHA type things) foreign and UK holidays with friends. One is even 'Social Sec.' of a university society.

So to me - they would be pretty representative of 'normal' students.

But here's the thing - both live largely on what would be the basic student loan amount (currently around £10500 pa). They don't get this entire amount directly because of the parental means testing. They get the minimum and my wife and I top them up to the maximum - something that must be fairly standard practice I would have thought?

They both work a bit in the holidays - but tend to regard this as disposable income along with birthday and Christmas gifts from relatives etc.

Both regard the £61000 (which is apparently required for ''a minimum socially acceptable standard of living'') figure as ludicrously high.

So what is going here? There is a real social downside to the publication of this sort of nonsense, as it would lead potential students from poorer families to believe that they couldn't possibly survive on the basic maintenance loan - something that is obviously untrue.

[irc]

It's a good story. Just like the vastly inflated costs sometimes quoted as the cost of raising a child.

[John D.]

It's what the university's would like to charge.

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

My daughter is taking a year off before she goes to University and is working full time. Silly me throught this was a great idea as it would give her a year to save for when she goes in September.

Turns out that depsite working there for four months now she has not saved a signle penny. Infact, she got her Child Trust Fund money when she was 18 and I believe she has less money now than before she started working.

I will add she doesn't pay any rent, doesn't own a car, essentially she has zero financial commitments each month. She bascially spend her entire takehome pay on her hair and going out.

So if you listened to her, the financial cost of going to university would be

1)£20K going out money
2)£10K tuition fees
3)£10K rent
4)£5K food

I seriously think she believes that I will just pay this for her, not understand that I spend less than this a month on two mortgages, child support and running a car

[Foss62]

John D. said:

It's what the university's would like to charge.

They probably would - but this supposed £61000 figure is maintenance costs only. The tuition fees are separate and covered by a separate loan (that isn’t parental means tested).

An interesting point here is that some universities are definitely attempting to corner the accommodation market for students’ entire time at university, and are also making their standard halls offers more luxurious (and correspondingly more expensive). They do undoubtedly see this as another source of income - particularly for wealthy foreign students.

[phil4]

Just did the govt form to see how much, and could get it to around £55k... tuition at £9535 per year, plus a maintenance loan of £8877, for 3 years... £55K, so perhaps they're adding some disability, it's London, or a longer course.

Edited by phil4 on Thursday 15th January 13:54

[M1AGM]

61K over 3 years doesnt sound that outlandish. £20k a year to cover accommodation and living expenses, thats less than a full time minimum wage earner and would put them very much in ‘poverty’ according to the government.

My eldest is off to uni in September and from what I recall the halls accommodation is around £160-200 a week, thats nearly £10k there. Same again for food and living expenses doesnt seem that unreasonable?

As you say a lot of the loan expense can be mitigated by part time work and holiday jobs.

How much do you calculate it costs to do a 3 year degree excluding fees if £61k is way off?

[Foss62]

phil4 said:

Just did the govt form to see how much, and could get it to around £55k... tuition at £9535 per year, plus a maintenance loan of £8877, for 3 years... £55K, so perhaps they're adding some disability, it's London, or a longer course.

Edited by phil4 on Thursday 15th January 13:54

You need to take the tuition fees (c. £30000 over the three years) out of the calculation. The article (and the other sources where I've heard the £61K figure) specifically exclude them - it is living expenses only.

[catso]

Foss62 said:

Having come across the 'headline' financial figure before (£61,000 living only costs for a three year degree) and discussing it with my own student children, I'm at a loss as to understand how it is arrived at?

My Son is in his second year of med school, having already done a degree prior to that plus did start a different course prior to that but dropped out after a year so, he has been in the University system for some time.

Now I don't know what the make-up of his loan/debt is but he tells me that it's already at £100k with a couple of years to go before qualifying as a Doctor.

Don't know if he'll ever be able to pay it off or what his plans are? But, I suppose it's another reason many Doctors go overseas, more money, better working conditions plus not having to pay back the student loan.

[Foss62]

M1AGM said:

61K over 3 years doesnt sound that outlandish. £20k a year to cover accommodation and living expenses, thats less than a full time minimum wage earner and would put them very much in poverty according to the government.

My eldest is off to uni in September and from what I recall the halls accommodation is around £160-200 a week, thats nearly £10k there. Same again for food and living expenses doesnt seem that unreasonable?

As you say a lot of the loan expense can be mitigated by part time work and holiday jobs.

How much do you calculate it costs to do a 3 year degree excluding fees if £61k is way off?

It can obviously be as much as you (or your student) likes. However, well before either of mine started on their courses, various friends with older children suggested that the cost TO ME would be about £6-7K a year for each of them. This seemed fairly cheap, but it has proven to be fairly accurate. As mentioned we top up the minimum maintenance loan to the amount of the maximum loan - which is currently around £10.5K, so for the three years would amount to around £32K. Add a bit of summer work and a few extra parental 'handouts', and you are probably at around £36K.

The cost of halls at many Universities can be lower than £160. I just checked the Manchester website and they range from £120. Also, with halls you are not paying for an entire year. Private shared houses vary as to whether they are charged per year or if the summer months are taken out - but both my children have found their shared houses to be a bit cheaper than the halls were.

The same website actually gives you a breakdown of likely expenses, and suggests the figure would be around £12K pa - which tallies with my above number.

I have had the same thoughts as you with regard to minimum wage/poverty etc. and I don't really have an answer. Neither of my children could remotely be described as poverty stricken. It's possibly an even more interesting topic than the original post. Ideas anyone?

[Panamax]

Kids with a paid job who live at home rent free have very little connection with reality. Student life would usually be a lot more austere.

[g3org3y]

Recently doing the rounds on the DoctorsUK Reddit group:

[wyson]

Would make sense if averaged out with the cost of living in London.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/accommodation/fees-guidance-...

Lots of halls charging £300 - £400 a week at UCL. At the upper end, might blow past £20k a year on accommodation costs alone.

A night out, food, drinks, club can swallow £100 easily. Do that once a week.

You can see how it all adds up.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 15th January 16:01

[Foss62]

wyson said:

Would make sense if averaged out with the cost of living in London.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/accommodation/fees-guidance-...

Lots of halls charging £300 - £400 a week at UCL. At the upper end, might blow past £20k a year on accommodation costs alone.

A night out, food, drinks, club can swallow £100 easily. Do that once a week.

You can see how it all adds up.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 15th January 16:01

There’s a reason why many prospective students won’t even consider going to a London university, and why the good Northern universities are full of Londoners.

It’s a specific set of circumstances though - with many London universities not even really having central ‘hubs’ and many students commuting.

If this is where the £61K figure is coming from, then it is very deceptive with regard to the national picture.