Replace radiators and pipes?
Discussion
Our central heating stopped working this morning.
Boiler in utility room, down stairs. Hot water tank and central heating pump upstarts in airing cupboard. Boiler is about 7 years old Viessmann and has been serviced every year. As far as I know everything else is as old as the house - getting on for 40 years old.
4 years ago the heating stopped. we have a repair / callout contract with a local firm who sent teams of people round. They power flushed it and various other stuff before eventually finding a blockage, sucking it out with a vacuum. worked fine until this morning.
Pump showing error code. Boiler stopped.
Man from same firm came round today, did several hours of investigation and spoke to wife. He says there is another blockage. No point in flushing as it didn't work 4 years ago and it will just block again, sooner or later. He says that we'll need all new pipes and radiators. He drained a little out of a radiator and it was full black with bits floating in it.
I'm concerned all the pipework is currently hidden in walls and floors and he was talking about running pips on the outside of walls, hiding them behind curtains and in corners of rooms. Downstairs floors are concrete.
What do you think? Does it need doing? Would we need to replace pipes? Can we have a better solution than hiding them behind curtains? Should I get a second opinion?
Boiler in utility room, down stairs. Hot water tank and central heating pump upstarts in airing cupboard. Boiler is about 7 years old Viessmann and has been serviced every year. As far as I know everything else is as old as the house - getting on for 40 years old.
4 years ago the heating stopped. we have a repair / callout contract with a local firm who sent teams of people round. They power flushed it and various other stuff before eventually finding a blockage, sucking it out with a vacuum. worked fine until this morning.
Pump showing error code. Boiler stopped.
Man from same firm came round today, did several hours of investigation and spoke to wife. He says there is another blockage. No point in flushing as it didn't work 4 years ago and it will just block again, sooner or later. He says that we'll need all new pipes and radiators. He drained a little out of a radiator and it was full black with bits floating in it.
I'm concerned all the pipework is currently hidden in walls and floors and he was talking about running pips on the outside of walls, hiding them behind curtains and in corners of rooms. Downstairs floors are concrete.
What do you think? Does it need doing? Would we need to replace pipes? Can we have a better solution than hiding them behind curtains? Should I get a second opinion?
I may be facing a similar dilemma soon. The bit that made me respond is solid floors and pipes buried in them . Ours about 45 years old and I fear we are in for trouble.
I have been looking at various ways of hiding pipes , there are some very smart skirting options albeit none of the options are better than in walls.
If you have no leaks then the pipe work can definitely be flushed and cleaned with various chemicals. Most likely with the radiators off and by pass hoses in place.
I think it may need further inspection from a couple of other heating specialists. Hard to find good knowledge and trusted ones but I think you will need to try .
I have been looking at various ways of hiding pipes , there are some very smart skirting options albeit none of the options are better than in walls.
If you have no leaks then the pipe work can definitely be flushed and cleaned with various chemicals. Most likely with the radiators off and by pass hoses in place.
I think it may need further inspection from a couple of other heating specialists. Hard to find good knowledge and trusted ones but I think you will need to try .
Duke Caboom said:
Simpo Two said:
How about one of those magnetic jobbies to catch the crud? Every so often you just open it and shake the bits out.
We've got one off those. Emptied every year. Full of crap when it's done. Duke Caboom said:
I'm concerned all the pipework is currently hidden in walls and floors and he was talking about running pips on the outside of walls, hiding them behind curtains and in corners of rooms. Downstairs floors are concrete.
Had to do this in daughter's house when it was discovered that the CH was single pipe in steel! Plumbers put new main pipework under the upstairs floorboards then dropped down in 10mm copper tube in plastic channel - in corners behind curtains at front and back of house and down next to a door architrave for a second rad in the living room. From the corners some 10mm pipe along the top of skirting. I suppose if you house was "minimal" you might see it, but her's has so much stuff it's all behind things. Luckily kitchen and sun-room had been extended and that had been done in copper from above so was OK.It's not "in your face" noticeable and could always be buried if the rooms were ever refurbed.
I can’t see how the guy can say the power flush didn’t work 4 years ago if it has worked for 4 years.
I would be getting a second opinion and look at doing another flush, maybe by someone who knows what they are doing.
Some radiators might need replacing or maybe just removing and cleaning out.
It might need a new pump too?
I would be getting a second opinion and look at doing another flush, maybe by someone who knows what they are doing.
Some radiators might need replacing or maybe just removing and cleaning out.
It might need a new pump too?
If it was all properly flushed and then properly inhibited it should have been fine, and it should be fine again.
Though easy to see why someone looking to make money would want to sell you a load of work and do it the easy way too.
The only time you really need to replace is when it's leaking from corroding through, before that it's a matter of cleaning. Power flush might not do much (bit unfriendly to the system too), might need to pull the rads and hose them out, run a milder system cleaner through the pipes for a while, and give the pump a clean too.
Weird that it's blocked that much though to the point of tripping, most heating systems have a bypass loop somewhere. More likely it's the pump choking.
Pumps can be cleaned with citric acid if it needs doing, that would eat any ferrite or copper oxides but pull the pump and soak it, don't be too tempted to run it through the whole system. Citric is a great system cleaner but sometimes the oxides are what's plugging leaks...
Though easy to see why someone looking to make money would want to sell you a load of work and do it the easy way too.
The only time you really need to replace is when it's leaking from corroding through, before that it's a matter of cleaning. Power flush might not do much (bit unfriendly to the system too), might need to pull the rads and hose them out, run a milder system cleaner through the pipes for a while, and give the pump a clean too.
Weird that it's blocked that much though to the point of tripping, most heating systems have a bypass loop somewhere. More likely it's the pump choking.
Pumps can be cleaned with citric acid if it needs doing, that would eat any ferrite or copper oxides but pull the pump and soak it, don't be too tempted to run it through the whole system. Citric is a great system cleaner but sometimes the oxides are what's plugging leaks...
Edited by JoshSm on Thursday 8th January 22:55
It’s either the money they can smell or they are just trying to play it safe for you.
My opinion get another plumber one you can trust and that will work the problem not throw money at it.
Think of it like a car dealer. At the moment it sounds like you’re having your car repaired at the main Bentley showroom. Why not take it to an independent and save yourself some cash and grief?
My opinion get another plumber one you can trust and that will work the problem not throw money at it.
Think of it like a car dealer. At the moment it sounds like you’re having your car repaired at the main Bentley showroom. Why not take it to an independent and save yourself some cash and grief?
Agree with others. Just properly flush and inhibit.
Yes it is old but if it is not leaking I don't see why you would do something so disruptive.
My mother house had similar issues ( for non related issue ls we gutted it ) but I would think it is just a matter of a long flush and decent chemicals to properly clear it all out.
Yes it is old but if it is not leaking I don't see why you would do something so disruptive.
My mother house had similar issues ( for non related issue ls we gutted it ) but I would think it is just a matter of a long flush and decent chemicals to properly clear it all out.
Assuming that they did the powerflush properly 4 years ago, then the system would have been squeaky clean at that point.
So the question is what is causing the corrosion in the system. Is it a sealed system or does it have a header tank? Does the system have the correct amount of corrosion inhibitor in it? Have you had a leak which has diluted or flushed out the inhibitor?
Completely repiping seems overkill without determining what is causing the problem. Get another heating engineer round to advise.
So the question is what is causing the corrosion in the system. Is it a sealed system or does it have a header tank? Does the system have the correct amount of corrosion inhibitor in it? Have you had a leak which has diluted or flushed out the inhibitor?
Completely repiping seems overkill without determining what is causing the problem. Get another heating engineer round to advise.
Powerflushing needs to be done properly, often it's not. How many rads do you have? The system could be drained and the rads removed and flushed out in the garden with a hose. Pipes could also be flushed through with a hose, but it can be messy. New rad valves can be fitted at the same time.
As above, you may have a leak, if the system is topping up with fresh water then it will dilute any inhibitor and will cause sludge.
As above, you may have a leak, if the system is topping up with fresh water then it will dilute any inhibitor and will cause sludge.
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