60ies F1 "replica" as track car
Discussion
After viewing the Hagerty video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SDrh0P2pGk) of the "SVF1 Eagle", a car made by Scarbo Performance (and sold for a wild 350k+ USD price), I looked a bit further and (re)discovered the Stuart Taylor F1 replicas: https://stuart-taylor.co.uk/formula-1-replicas/
They seem to have moved up quite a bit in price (~40 -> 70k~) over the years, but I can't help but thinking they would make for quite a capable trackcar, ignoring the stock open wheel setup. A big V8, but still very light. In my mind, this would result in a low stressed engine and a reliable rack car that is -relatively- cheap to run.
Based on the Hagerty video, and being that they were once the ultimate racing machines, it seems that handling is quite good. They obviously lack the aero of more modern machines, which would ultimately limit their potential, but would probably make for quite an approachable (well...
) car.
I find very little info about these cars, and even less about them being used for trackdays or racing. Does anyone have experience with these? I am mainly looking at the Stuart Taylor ones (gorgeous cars, light and modern V8), but similar cars might also give some insight.
Edit: I am mainly interested in the technical capabilities of these cars, less about the rules of trackdays. I'm not really sure how they would compare to for example a Caterham or a GT3 RS in performance, maintenance and skill level.
They seem to have moved up quite a bit in price (~40 -> 70k~) over the years, but I can't help but thinking they would make for quite a capable trackcar, ignoring the stock open wheel setup. A big V8, but still very light. In my mind, this would result in a low stressed engine and a reliable rack car that is -relatively- cheap to run.
Based on the Hagerty video, and being that they were once the ultimate racing machines, it seems that handling is quite good. They obviously lack the aero of more modern machines, which would ultimately limit their potential, but would probably make for quite an approachable (well...
) car.I find very little info about these cars, and even less about them being used for trackdays or racing. Does anyone have experience with these? I am mainly looking at the Stuart Taylor ones (gorgeous cars, light and modern V8), but similar cars might also give some insight.
Edit: I am mainly interested in the technical capabilities of these cars, less about the rules of trackdays. I'm not really sure how they would compare to for example a Caterham or a GT3 RS in performance, maintenance and skill level.
Edited by Terror Factor on Thursday 8th January 10:15
With 380bhp and assuming they weigh under 750kg they are likely to be lively... nothing like a GT3RS and very different to a 'standard' racing Caterham (that has half the power).
I guess the appeal of 60s F1 car is about driving on the throttle and managing the slip angles, which, looks like a lot of fun. The specifics would depend mainly on tires and setup. You may not see which way a GT3RS/ Caterham 420r/ Radical went but you would be laughing like a maniac.
As others have said, few if any track days allow open wheel cars, so you'd need a race licence to join test days (not hard to get).
I guess the appeal of 60s F1 car is about driving on the throttle and managing the slip angles, which, looks like a lot of fun. The specifics would depend mainly on tires and setup. You may not see which way a GT3RS/ Caterham 420r/ Radical went but you would be laughing like a maniac.
As others have said, few if any track days allow open wheel cars, so you'd need a race licence to join test days (not hard to get).
WombleCate said:
With 380bhp and assuming they weigh under 750kg they are likely to be lively... nothing like a GT3RS and very different to a 'standard' racing Caterham (that has half the power).
I guess the appeal of 60s F1 car is about driving on the throttle and managing the slip angles, which, looks like a lot of fun. The specifics would depend mainly on tires and setup. You may not see which way a GT3RS/ Caterham 420r/ Radical went but you would be laughing like a maniac.
As others have said, few if any track days allow open wheel cars, so you'd need a race licence to join test days (not hard to get).
I guess the appeal of 60s F1 car is about driving on the throttle and managing the slip angles, which, looks like a lot of fun. The specifics would depend mainly on tires and setup. You may not see which way a GT3RS/ Caterham 420r/ Radical went but you would be laughing like a maniac.
As others have said, few if any track days allow open wheel cars, so you'd need a race licence to join test days (not hard to get).
WombleCate said:
I stand corrected.. looking at lap times.
Jim Clark or Jackie Stewart in a mid-60s F1 car wouldn't be far behind a quick track dayer in a GT3 RS.
It's maybe not a 1 on 1 comparison with the real stuff (I imagine they are a bit lighter), but the power to weight makes it almost impossible to be slow, I think. 690 kg I remember seeing somewhere, although I found this ad that says 650kg: https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/101385/l...Jim Clark or Jackie Stewart in a mid-60s F1 car wouldn't be far behind a quick track dayer in a GT3 RS.
Since it uses an LS, you could put in an LS7 as well. Same weight, but 600 whp is not that hard to reach. And just look at them, they are gorgeous!
Terror Factor said:
And just look at them, they are gorgeous!
I completely agree they look absolutely gorgeous and also would be an absolute blast to drive! Just the driving style will be more like a Cobra than a 60s F1 Car and a different experience to a GT3RS or a Caterham. You'll spend more time facing sideways than forward...
I suspect the appeal isn't speed alone, I also suspect they would be as fast with half the power.
WombleCate said:
I completely agree they look absolutely gorgeous and also would be an absolute blast to drive!
Just the driving style will be more like a Cobra than a 60s F1 Car and a different experience to a GT3RS or a Caterham. You'll spend more time facing sideways than forward...
I suspect the appeal isn't speed alone, I also suspect they would be as fast with half the power.
Speed is definitely not the only appeal, there are a lot of options to go very fast for a lot less money, but the looks, uniqueness, simplicity and robustness of the powerplant make them a very appealing, maybe even sensible choice. Just the driving style will be more like a Cobra than a 60s F1 Car and a different experience to a GT3RS or a Caterham. You'll spend more time facing sideways than forward...
I suspect the appeal isn't speed alone, I also suspect they would be as fast with half the power.
It suprises me a bit that there is so little info to be found on them online, especially since Stuart Taylor is a relatively well known kit car manufacturer and has a good reputation -as far as I know-. I "know" them from the Sylva continuations.
I'm curious about the fixation of "go very fast" as the absolute measure of fun. I don't think it is.
They look gorgeous but they are of no use. They can't be used on the road, they can't mix it with other track day cars, so where would any fun be?
A fun single seater is a FF1600 or an FF2000 on a test day (the F1 replicas are likely to be technically not allowed at test days as they are not race cars).
A fun track day car is a Caterham.
They are as lovely as they are useless!
They look gorgeous but they are of no use. They can't be used on the road, they can't mix it with other track day cars, so where would any fun be?
A fun single seater is a FF1600 or an FF2000 on a test day (the F1 replicas are likely to be technically not allowed at test days as they are not race cars).
A fun track day car is a Caterham.
They are as lovely as they are useless!
BertBert said:
I'm curious about the fixation of "go very fast" as the absolute measure of fun. I don't think it is.
They look gorgeous but they are of no use. They can't be used on the road, they can't mix it with other track day cars, so where would any fun be?
A fun single seater is a FF1600 or an FF2000 on a test day (the F1 replicas are likely to be technically not allowed at test days as they are not race cars).
A fun track day car is a Caterham.
They are as lovely as they are useless!
You might be right, but I am not based in the UK and the local track is not very restrictive, as far as I know. I'm also wondering if the open wheeled part isn't fixable by putting 7-like guards over the wheels. It would look off, but if that is all that's needed, it seems an easy fix.They look gorgeous but they are of no use. They can't be used on the road, they can't mix it with other track day cars, so where would any fun be?
A fun single seater is a FF1600 or an FF2000 on a test day (the F1 replicas are likely to be technically not allowed at test days as they are not race cars).
A fun track day car is a Caterham.
They are as lovely as they are useless!
But I'm genuinely also just curious about these cars.
In the meantime, I saw that the old site is viewable via the internet archive (https://web.archive.org/web/20120330023812/http://www.f1-67.com/videos.html) and I sent a mail to Ian, the man behind these cars, to see what he has to say.
And to the question of how much fun they will be to drive, that depends on the handling. If they are understeering pigs and it can't be dialled out, then no fun at all. Similarly if they have snap oversteer, or plain just can't get the power down, again no fun.
The Lotus 49 is in iRacing and although it's been a while since I had a go, I remember it not being a very nice car to drive. iRacing generally does a good realistic job in my experience. I must try it again over the next few days.
I notice the rep is spaceframe rather than monocoque which I think the 49 was.
The Lotus 49 is in iRacing and although it's been a while since I had a go, I remember it not being a very nice car to drive. iRacing generally does a good realistic job in my experience. I must try it again over the next few days.
I notice the rep is spaceframe rather than monocoque which I think the 49 was.
The one from the Hagerty video is obviously not the same car, but the base ingredients are the same (60ies F1 car, Chevy V8, tubeframe). With the Stuart Taylor cars generally getting good reviews for handling as far as I know, I am hopeful, but it would be nice to actually hear some people that have experience with them.
WombleCate said:
I stand corrected.. looking at lap times.
Jim Clark or Jackie Stewart in a mid-60s F1 car wouldn't be far behind a quick track dayer in a GT3 RS.
Goodwood is about the only unadulterated track left, although it's generally considered to be a bit quicker today because of a better surface. A proper 992 GT3RS lap time is pretty much identical to the 1.5 litre F1 lap times 'in period'. The 1.5 litre cars had about 200bhp, so a Lotus 49 with Clark or Stewart at the wheel, and over 400bhp, would likely be a lot quicker....Jim Clark or Jackie Stewart in a mid-60s F1 car wouldn't be far behind a quick track dayer in a GT3 RS.
Lotus c.800bhp/ton vs Porsche c.350bhp/ton
(before factoring more modern rubber)
Edited by ettore on Friday 9th January 00:23
WombleCate said:
I completely agree they look absolutely gorgeous and also would be an absolute blast to drive!
Just the driving style will be more like a Cobra than a 60s F1 Car and a different experience to a GT3RS or a Caterham. You'll spend more time facing sideways than forward...
I suspect the appeal isn't speed alone, I also suspect they would be as fast with half the power.
I'm not sure the driving style for a 60's single seater bears much semblance to racing a Cobra tbh.Just the driving style will be more like a Cobra than a 60s F1 Car and a different experience to a GT3RS or a Caterham. You'll spend more time facing sideways than forward...
I suspect the appeal isn't speed alone, I also suspect they would be as fast with half the power.
ettore said:
I'm not sure the driving style for a 60's single seater bears much semblance to racing a Cobra tbh.
Yes, it's the classic, take a car that was made to work well with 200 bhp and then have no idea what happens with 400bhp.Then "working well" aka fast lap times doesn't necc mean fun. Max's car, super quick for him, but is so edgy that noone else can drive it well. I wonder if they think it's fun?
Truckosaurus said:
I assume you have to run it at a formal 'test session' rather than a generic track day.
Or just make some mudguards for it
Javelin run some open wheeled session on a few of their trackdays in the uk. Or just make some mudguards for it
Also Lydden hill included some open wheel slots last year on a trackday.
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff