Cigs for a low price?

[jonsp]

Shop opened up in the next town over to me selling vapes. Lovely looking shop and they have ~100 different vapes on offer.

Word soon got around they also sell 20 Lambert & Butler 20s for £5. Genuine UK pack and even says "UK duty paid" on the pack. These should retail for ~£13.

Is there any legit way a shop could sell these for £5? Unless there's something very clever going on my thinking is they must they have fallen off the back of a lorry.

If it's not legit why doesn't the taxman/police/whoever close it down, it's a very visible business?

[valiant]

They’ll be fake.

Report to local council or whatever is left of trading standards.

[gotoPzero]

jonsp said:

Shop opened up in the next town over to me selling vapes. Lovely looking shop and they have ~100 different vapes on offer.

Word soon got around they also sell 20 Lambert & Butler 20s for £5. Genuine UK pack and even says "UK duty paid" on the pack. These should retail for ~£13.

Is there any legit way a shop could sell these for £5? Unless there's something very clever going on my thinking is they must they have fallen off the back of a lorry.

If it's not legit why doesn't the taxman/police/whoever close it down, it's a very visible business?

Of course there is no way they are legit.

They are either stolen or they are fake. One or the other. Probably fakes from the far east.

[jonsp]

valiant said:

They ll be fake.

Report to local council or whatever is left of trading standards.

That was my first thought. I smoke but a different brand, tried one and they seem OK. Certainly not nasty just a question of taste. I'd rather pay retail for my favoured brand but I can see why these would be popular on a financial level.

The pack looks 100% genuine, I could understand if the pack wording was in foreign so they'd been smuggled to avoid the duty. If you want to sell fake cigs you probably wouldn't take the time/trouble to fake a UK pack as well. The customer wouldn't care about the pack as long as he gets a decent smoke

Then I'd think if you have some way to steal cigs at scale you'd hardly sell them pack at a time through a very visible shop

Obvious conclusion is there's wrongdoing involved but this is not an underground activity it's taking place in the open air.

[greygoose]

jonsp said:

valiant said:

They ll be fake.

Report to local council or whatever is left of trading standards.

That was my first thought. I smoke but a different brand, tried one and they seem OK. Certainly not nasty just a question of taste. I'd rather pay retail for my favoured brand but I can see why these would be popular on a financial level.

The pack looks 100% genuine, I could understand if the pack wording was in foreign so they'd been smuggled to avoid the duty. If you want to sell fake cigs you probably wouldn't take the time/trouble to fake a UK pack as well. The customer wouldn't care about the pack as long as he gets a decent smoke

Then I'd think if you have some way to steal cigs at scale you'd hardly sell them pack at a time through a very visible shop

Obvious conclusion is there's wrongdoing involved but this is not an underground activity it's taking place in the open air.

Of course you would fake the packet so it resembles a UK brand, people will buy (and pay more) for a familiar packet rather than an unknown one.

[Gecko1978]

jonsp said:

valiant said:

They ll be fake.

Report to local council or whatever is left of trading standards.

That was my first thought. I smoke but a different brand, tried one and they seem OK. Certainly not nasty just a question of taste. I'd rather pay retail for my favoured brand but I can see why these would be popular on a financial level.

The pack looks 100% genuine, I could understand if the pack wording was in foreign so they'd been smuggled to avoid the duty. If you want to sell fake cigs you probably wouldn't take the time/trouble to fake a UK pack as well. The customer wouldn't care about the pack as long as he gets a decent smoke

Then I'd think if you have some way to steal cigs at scale you'd hardly sell them pack at a time through a very visible shop

Obvious conclusion is there's wrongdoing involved but this is not an underground activity it's taking place in the open air.

You last line resonates there is so much crime an wrong doing going on visibly in the UK yet the state seem hell bent on targeting SMEs for a few quid in tax. Even recent crypto exchange laws are expected to bring in £300m over five years, yet sweet shops set up to launder money on Oxford street, vape shops selling fake cigarettes, Turkish barbers with no customers, chicken shops in London etc. But no the state want to target a business because it might have paid 22% an not 24% etc in tax this is the insanity of the UK

[valiant]

They’ll be 100% fake and most likely from the far east, probably China and they’ll look as good as the real thing but will contain all manner of nasties when you smoke them.

They copy western brands because that’s what people want. People delude themselves that they’re the real thing and only smuggled in to avoid duty but it’s anything but. There’s a whole industry committed to producing and bringing them in and selling them under the counter as there’s precious little the local authorities will do as they’re stretched far too thin and simply don’t have the budget to investigate whether that’s the HMRC, trading standards, Customs&Excise or plod.

That shop will get raided eventually and it’ll be in the local papers and may even make your local BBC news as a job well done and were tackling it but it’s all priced into their business model where the kingpins will simply rent another unit and start again.

[otolith]

jonsp said:

Is there any legit way a shop could sell these for £5?

The duty on cigarettes is £353.50 per 1,000 cigarettes plus 16.5% of retail price, so a minimum possible price of £8.24 for a pack of 20. Well, minimum if the retailer paid nothing for them and looked to make no money on the sale. It's not actually illegal to sell them at a loss so long as the duty is paid, but it seems unlikely that the shop is losing £3.24 plus whatever it pays for them on each pack...

[gotoPzero]

Gecko1978 said:

jonsp said:

valiant said:

They ll be fake.

Report to local council or whatever is left of trading standards.

That was my first thought. I smoke but a different brand, tried one and they seem OK. Certainly not nasty just a question of taste. I'd rather pay retail for my favoured brand but I can see why these would be popular on a financial level.

The pack looks 100% genuine, I could understand if the pack wording was in foreign so they'd been smuggled to avoid the duty. If you want to sell fake cigs you probably wouldn't take the time/trouble to fake a UK pack as well. The customer wouldn't care about the pack as long as he gets a decent smoke

Then I'd think if you have some way to steal cigs at scale you'd hardly sell them pack at a time through a very visible shop

Obvious conclusion is there's wrongdoing involved but this is not an underground activity it's taking place in the open air.

You last line resonates there is so much crime an wrong doing going on visibly in the UK yet the state seem hell bent on targeting SMEs for a few quid in tax. Even recent crypto exchange laws are expected to bring in £300m over five years, yet sweet shops set up to launder money on Oxford street, vape shops selling fake cigarettes, Turkish barbers with no customers, chicken shops in London etc. But no the state want to target a business because it might have paid 22% an not 24% etc in tax this is the insanity of the UK

Part of the problem is when these "businesses" get caught, and they generally do - the punishments are virtually nil.
For something like this they will just get a slap on the wrists and maybe a ban from companies house for a few years.
Does not matter to them, they have 4 brothers, 20 cousins and 100s of friends who will do what ever they ask.
They will have a bent solicitor and accountant who will help.

Its all just a part of the cost of doing this activity. They know they will get caught at some point, its all part in the budget.

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

valiant said:

They ll be 100% fake and most likely from the far east, probably China and they ll look as good as the real thing but will contain all manner of nasties when you smoke them.

My aunt used to buy these as they were cheap, she died of lung cancer a few months after getting her state pension.

A guy I used to work with was a heavy smoker and he bought a packet of cigarettes from a shop he didn't usually buy from. He could tell straight away they were fake, despite charging him full price.

[J4CKO]

Will be the tip of an iceberg, every town has these "businesses" now, will be a flash car or two outside on occasion.

All us PAYE monkeys pay for these scumbags rinsing the system via tax evasion whilst still taking whatever they can in services, and likely benefits where they can.

[Newc]

IEA article https://thecritic.co.uk/the-underground-tobacco-tr...

tldr: about 50% of UK cigarette consumption is fakes / smuggling.

[Wills2]

When you tax a product that has strong demand to a high price you automatically provide criminals with a ready made market, organised crime loves it when the government taxes markets in this way, see illegal fly tipping sites as well for details.

These crimes are carried out in broad day light with almost zero consequences.

[MattsCar]

J4CKO said:

Will be the tip of an iceberg, every town has these "businesses" now, will be a flash car or two outside on occasion.

All us PAYE monkeys pay for these scumbags rinsing the system via tax evasion whilst still taking whatever they can in services, and likely benefits where they can.

And Villages! The village next to mine had one open just before Christmas, opposite a Spar.

They even got the name of the village wrong on the shop sign!

Lots of Vapes for sale. Incredibly clean and tidy looking, but, no customers in there...ever. Not a single person in the 30 or so times I have passed by.

[WCZ]

the goverment has simply taxed cigarettes to the point that the trade has gone underground, it's not uncommon for people to have a tobacco 'dealer' now which is pretty absurd

[suthol]

Tobacconists are now the drug dealership of choice for organised crime here in Oz and even more so now that non medicinal vapes have been banned

[Countdown]

jonsp said:

Shop opened up in the next town over to me selling vapes. Lovely looking shop and they have ~100 different vapes on offer.

Word soon got around they also sell 20 Lambert & Butler 20s for £5. Genuine UK pack and even says "UK duty paid" on the pack. These should retail for ~£13.

Is there any legit way a shop could sell these for £5? Unless there's something very clever going on my thinking is they must they have fallen off the back of a lorry.

If it's not legit why doesn't the taxman/police/whoever close it down, it's a very visible business?

The fact that it says "UK Duty paid" on the pack means the one thing you can guarantee is that UK Duty hasn't bee paid

[MattsCar]

suthol said:

Tobacconists are now the drug dealership of choice for organised crime here in Oz and even more so now that non medicinal vapes have been banned

Same in the UK.

Larger market for cigarettes, probably the same profit as selling drugs, no real need for production facilities and more of a customs and excise matter than a Police one if caught.

[Wills2]

It's all born out of the governments (any) insistence on winning an argument rather than solving the issue, they know what the consequences will be but they don't care so long as they can be seen to be acting and can win the argument when questioned.

They are not acting to improve things.

[butchstewie]

jonsp said:

I smoke but a different brand, tried one and they seem OK.

Why would you do that?

Genuinely curious as a non-smoker as you hear some of the absolute horror stories about what goes in fake tobacco.