Discussion
I was about to contribute to the "I hate cyclists" thread in the Lounge, but it's been closed down. It had descended into the usual road tax/lycra rubbish anyway, fuelled by drivers who'd got held up for 20 seconds behind a bike.
For context - I'm a petrolhead, I've actually just sold my Caterham R400, I have an old Boxster tucked up in the garage and I'm most of the way through restoring a classic Defender 110. I'm also a cyclist...not as in "I own a bike", (n+1 means my wife and I own about 10, road bikes, gravel, MTB, Bromptons and even a tandem). I'm a "proper" club cyclist (road), bikepacker/tourist, occasional TT'er, and I rode LEJOG in 10 days last year (cheated and used hotels etc).
I take pride in my riding, and although I ride "to my rights" and will hold a line to avoid being squeezed out etc, I try to be as considerate as possible to cars, and wave them through, give them space for an overtake, thank them for being patient etc. Every time I encounter a car, I want them to think "ooo, a considerate cyclist, who knew!". I take it as an opportunity to try and improve the relationship between "them and us" as the hard of thinking like to call it. And most of all, I try not to die.
But sometimes, feck me, we really don't bloody help ourselves do we.
On the morning of Sunday 28th December, I came up (driving) behind a group of cyclists in Hampshire, on the Fareham Road, crossing the B2177 and going onto the South Boarhunt road. I was then stuck behind them (2 cars back) until Swivelton Road, over 2.5 miles on.
I have never seen such utterly s
t cycling roadcraft ever.
First of all, there were about 40 of them. Riding 3, sometimes 4 abreast. On a road like that, in my club, on a big group, we will split into no more than 8 bikes, with a gap to the next one, so drivers have half a chance of "leapfrog" overtaking something roughly the size of a van. These clowns were spread out over about 30 metres, with no gaps.
The car in front of us attempted an overtake. If they'd put their toe in, they might have made it. But they didn't, and the car ended up overtaking on a blind, 90 degree left hand bend, immediately before another, blind, 90 degree right hand bend. The car was as st at driving as the cyclists were at riding, however unbelievably none of the cyclists, knowing that the car had royally screwed up, eased up to make a gap for the car to pull into. It was an uphill climb too, so speed was probably about 13mph, so hardly a massive issue to do it. I was well on the brakes by this time, fully expecting to witness a head on crash with a significant amount of cyclist collateral damage.
A short while later I then had a chance to overtake. As I went for it, some of the cyclists decided to get out the saddle, honk it up the hill overtaking their riding buddies, and stray about 18" across the white line (still 3/4 abreast) meaning I had to abandon what would have otherwise been a perfectly safe overtake and slot in a the back again.
What. The. Actual. F***.
Which club is this? Who are the ride leaders? Where is the roadcraft? Where is any sense of self preservation? Our club had the terrible misfortune to have a roadside cyclist fatality a few years ago when someone was just incredibly unlucky. Incredibly sad for all involved, and for obvious reasons, it took the club a very long time to recover.
Please sort your st out, ride in smaller bunches, look after one another, have some consideration for other road users, or perhaps just take up gravel riding if roadcraft is too hard for you before someone gets killed.
Rant over.
For context - I'm a petrolhead, I've actually just sold my Caterham R400, I have an old Boxster tucked up in the garage and I'm most of the way through restoring a classic Defender 110. I'm also a cyclist...not as in "I own a bike", (n+1 means my wife and I own about 10, road bikes, gravel, MTB, Bromptons and even a tandem). I'm a "proper" club cyclist (road), bikepacker/tourist, occasional TT'er, and I rode LEJOG in 10 days last year (cheated and used hotels etc).
I take pride in my riding, and although I ride "to my rights" and will hold a line to avoid being squeezed out etc, I try to be as considerate as possible to cars, and wave them through, give them space for an overtake, thank them for being patient etc. Every time I encounter a car, I want them to think "ooo, a considerate cyclist, who knew!". I take it as an opportunity to try and improve the relationship between "them and us" as the hard of thinking like to call it. And most of all, I try not to die.
But sometimes, feck me, we really don't bloody help ourselves do we.
On the morning of Sunday 28th December, I came up (driving) behind a group of cyclists in Hampshire, on the Fareham Road, crossing the B2177 and going onto the South Boarhunt road. I was then stuck behind them (2 cars back) until Swivelton Road, over 2.5 miles on.
I have never seen such utterly s
t cycling roadcraft ever.First of all, there were about 40 of them. Riding 3, sometimes 4 abreast. On a road like that, in my club, on a big group, we will split into no more than 8 bikes, with a gap to the next one, so drivers have half a chance of "leapfrog" overtaking something roughly the size of a van. These clowns were spread out over about 30 metres, with no gaps.
The car in front of us attempted an overtake. If they'd put their toe in, they might have made it. But they didn't, and the car ended up overtaking on a blind, 90 degree left hand bend, immediately before another, blind, 90 degree right hand bend. The car was as s
t at driving as the cyclists were at riding, however unbelievably none of the cyclists, knowing that the car had royally screwed up, eased up to make a gap for the car to pull into. It was an uphill climb too, so speed was probably about 13mph, so hardly a massive issue to do it. I was well on the brakes by this time, fully expecting to witness a head on crash with a significant amount of cyclist collateral damage.A short while later I then had a chance to overtake. As I went for it, some of the cyclists decided to get out the saddle, honk it up the hill overtaking their riding buddies, and stray about 18" across the white line (still 3/4 abreast) meaning I had to abandon what would have otherwise been a perfectly safe overtake and slot in a the back again.
What. The. Actual. F***.
Which club is this? Who are the ride leaders? Where is the roadcraft? Where is any sense of self preservation? Our club had the terrible misfortune to have a roadside cyclist fatality a few years ago when someone was just incredibly unlucky. Incredibly sad for all involved, and for obvious reasons, it took the club a very long time to recover.
Please sort your s
t out, ride in smaller bunches, look after one another, have some consideration for other road users, or perhaps just take up gravel riding if roadcraft is too hard for you before someone gets killed.Rant over.
Edited by Hard-Drive on Tuesday 30th December 16:53
My own cycling club managed to set out in a peloton of 30+ riders, all travelling at speed on a singletrack road.
They came round a blind corner to find myself, one other adult and 4 children cycling to the same club event. I was shouted and sworn at to get out the way as they careered past.
Later that day I tried to have a conversation with the ride leader - I was told that I shouldn't have been on the road with children and should have got out the way of the fast group as I should have known they didn't stop...
I'm no longer a member of Stirling Bike Club.
Unfortunately there's aholes in every area of life.
They came round a blind corner to find myself, one other adult and 4 children cycling to the same club event. I was shouted and sworn at to get out the way as they careered past.
Later that day I tried to have a conversation with the ride leader - I was told that I shouldn't have been on the road with children and should have got out the way of the fast group as I should have known they didn't stop...
I'm no longer a member of Stirling Bike Club.
Unfortunately there's a
holes in every area of life.OP- if you can be bothered, look on Strava at segment times around when you traveled the route, you may be able to see club name tags in the rider names.
I do agree though group riding etiquette often leaves a great deal to be desired
That said, even smaller groups legitimately in 2-abreast formation will get drivers all riled up, even though they are safer and quicker to pass than the same group strung out in single file. Can’t win sometimes.
I do agree though group riding etiquette often leaves a great deal to be desired
That said, even smaller groups legitimately in 2-abreast formation will get drivers all riled up, even though they are safer and quicker to pass than the same group strung out in single file. Can’t win sometimes.
Pre-kids I cycled a lot, and have always been a keen driver. I've always applied the thinking from both experiences when riding or driving.
For example, when cycling, if I realise a low confidence driver is patiently waiting behind me for a safe place to overtake on a windy road with poor visibility around corners, I simply pull into a side road, or layby, to allow the car, and the others behind, to pass. I'm not in a race, and while I may be chasing a time on a section or a loop, I realise this really isn't hugely important.
Equally, if I am driving and come up behind a cyclist, I will give them space and not overtake in a dangerous spot.
Then there's the other side of the argument...
I've been on the bike and had people deliberately pass as close as they could, one being a motorbike which must have been moving at close to 100mph, which was terrifying and almost took me off just with the wind deflection.
Equally, I too have come across the scenario the OP stated. It's really frustrating! I understand that they don't want to break their peloton, but if I have to sit there for ages waiting for them, it's not fair on me. They will always argue that "the roads are for all" and "you don't have to drive faster". Whilst these statements are technically true, so is "don't be a d*ck" and "some people are trying to get somewhere on time". Usually at least half of the riders are fat, slow, or just chatting on a pleasant ride. Sorry, but if this is the case, just do the right thing and get out the way.
Oh, and I just remembered a time when a support car was following a group of no more than 10 riders, and when I went to overtake on a perfectly straight road, no side turnings, and nothing coming the other way for the mile or so I could see, the car pulls across as I went to overtake to block me! WTF!?
For example, when cycling, if I realise a low confidence driver is patiently waiting behind me for a safe place to overtake on a windy road with poor visibility around corners, I simply pull into a side road, or layby, to allow the car, and the others behind, to pass. I'm not in a race, and while I may be chasing a time on a section or a loop, I realise this really isn't hugely important.
Equally, if I am driving and come up behind a cyclist, I will give them space and not overtake in a dangerous spot.
Then there's the other side of the argument...
I've been on the bike and had people deliberately pass as close as they could, one being a motorbike which must have been moving at close to 100mph, which was terrifying and almost took me off just with the wind deflection.
Equally, I too have come across the scenario the OP stated. It's really frustrating! I understand that they don't want to break their peloton, but if I have to sit there for ages waiting for them, it's not fair on me. They will always argue that "the roads are for all" and "you don't have to drive faster". Whilst these statements are technically true, so is "don't be a d*ck" and "some people are trying to get somewhere on time". Usually at least half of the riders are fat, slow, or just chatting on a pleasant ride. Sorry, but if this is the case, just do the right thing and get out the way.
Oh, and I just remembered a time when a support car was following a group of no more than 10 riders, and when I went to overtake on a perfectly straight road, no side turnings, and nothing coming the other way for the mile or so I could see, the car pulls across as I went to overtake to block me! WTF!?
Master Bean said:
I once sent an email to my club about some st group riding I had seen. Got a bunch of replies saying nobody had seen anything similar. There is definitely a lack of self awareness with some people.
At least half the groups from your club can't ride well in a group. Always all over the road.t group riding I had seen. Got a bunch of replies saying nobody had seen anything similar. There is definitely a lack of self awareness with some people. m444ttb said:
Master Bean said:
I once sent an email to my club about some st group riding I had seen. Got a bunch of replies saying nobody had seen anything similar. There is definitely a lack of self awareness with some people.
At least half the groups from your club can't ride well in a group. Always all over the road.t group riding I had seen. Got a bunch of replies saying nobody had seen anything similar. There is definitely a lack of self awareness with some people. 
There's a well known club not too far from me. I've been toying with the idea of joining for a while. Might wait till the Spring or maybe early Autumn.
They insist you go along to a ride with them prior to joining to ensure that you aren't a liability. They want to see you ride through and off. Are comfortable in groups. And also take a bottle out of your cage, drink from it and replace it, without taking your eyes off the road.
Seems pretty simple and keeps standards at a reasonable level.
AFAIK not many clubs do this.
They insist you go along to a ride with them prior to joining to ensure that you aren't a liability. They want to see you ride through and off. Are comfortable in groups. And also take a bottle out of your cage, drink from it and replace it, without taking your eyes off the road.
Seems pretty simple and keeps standards at a reasonable level.
AFAIK not many clubs do this.
BunkMoreland said:
There's a well known club not too far from me. I've been toying with the idea of joining for a while. Might wait till the Spring or maybe early Autumn.
They insist you go along to a ride with them prior to joining to ensure that you aren't a liability. They want to see you ride through and off. Are comfortable in groups. And also take a bottle out of your cage, drink from it and replace it, without taking your eyes off the road.
Seems pretty simple and keeps standards at a reasonable level.
AFAIK not many clubs do this.
Hmmmm...a "fun" cycling club having some kind of entrance exam? Really? Put it like this, my club allows two rides without you paying to join, to see if it's for you, and then one of the ride leaders will go over the obvious stuff like half wheeling and perhaps give you a few tips if needed on your riding. Bear in mind that "calls" will vary between clubs anyway too! We try to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible, and not have any barriers to entry!They insist you go along to a ride with them prior to joining to ensure that you aren't a liability. They want to see you ride through and off. Are comfortable in groups. And also take a bottle out of your cage, drink from it and replace it, without taking your eyes off the road.
Seems pretty simple and keeps standards at a reasonable level.
AFAIK not many clubs do this.
There's also three separate Saturday rides, a very gentle 25-30 miler 13mph job which doesn't tend to be tight, bunched riding, and is generally frequented by older or novice riders, and two groups on a 50 miler, one proper head-down 18-19mph group, and a more social 15-16mph group.
For an "exam" perhaps being able to ride in harmony with traffic, single up on busy roads, split a group into smaller ones, and call potholes might be more useful than the bottle thing. No harm in dropping back on the group a bit for a drink...
The only group rides I know of on that sunday, would have been PNECC (Portsmouth north end - the club I ride with/for) or the Portsdown classic recce ride.
Neither of those would have had 40 riders though (maybe half that as best).
I know the PNE ride leaders would split into smaller groups anyway (they limit to a max of 12 people).
I will however mention it in the club group chat and since checking the map, it may have been the portsdown classic recce group as they were doing laps down the B2177 then up through Boarhunt to the top of the hill.
But I agree, I often look at other riders and get exactly why motorists get so annoyed with them
Neither of those would have had 40 riders though (maybe half that as best).
I know the PNE ride leaders would split into smaller groups anyway (they limit to a max of 12 people).
I will however mention it in the club group chat and since checking the map, it may have been the portsdown classic recce group as they were doing laps down the B2177 then up through Boarhunt to the top of the hill.
But I agree, I often look at other riders and get exactly why motorists get so annoyed with them
Edited by Dannbodge on Friday 2nd January 10:56
Hard-Drive said:
I
On the morning of Sunday 28th December, I came up (driving) behind a group of cyclists in Hampshire, on the Fareham Road, crossing the B2177 and going onto the South Boarhunt road. I was then stuck behind them (2 cars back) until Swivelton Road, over 2.5 miles on.
I have never seen such utterly st cycling roadcraft ever.
First of all, there were about 40 of them. Riding 3, sometimes 4 abreast.
I live in Hampshire and see this happen a lot. There's very little you can do and they're usually quite aggressive if you try to get past - I can only assume that's part of their enjoyment.On the morning of Sunday 28th December, I came up (driving) behind a group of cyclists in Hampshire, on the Fareham Road, crossing the B2177 and going onto the South Boarhunt road. I was then stuck behind them (2 cars back) until Swivelton Road, over 2.5 miles on.
I have never seen such utterly s
t cycling roadcraft ever.First of all, there were about 40 of them. Riding 3, sometimes 4 abreast.
m444ttb said:
People are entitled and lack self awareness whether they are in a car, riding a bike or pushing a trolley round Tesco I find.
This, completely. Oddly though people seem to multiply the time they spent held up by cyclists by at least 10 in their heads, whilst forgetting the time they spend held up by drivers who drive slowly, drivers who park inconsiderately, drivers who crash due to paying insufficient attention, sitting at traffic lights, pointless traffic calming give-way things etc etc etc etc. The other day I was delayed by over half an hour due entirely to some bloke who managed to turn his car upside down while merging from one motorway to another.
My sympathies OP - it's really frustrating seeing poor behaviour when we know it could be better and not perpetuate the 'bloody cyclists' trope.
I stopped riding with groups a while ago for just this reason, people who I was riding with, who were also drivers and petrolheads seemed to lose their rationality when in a group. I'm not sure if it's a pack mentality thing, or just a 'because we can' thing, but it really put me off (that and the lack of fitness and commitment...
).
I stopped riding with groups a while ago for just this reason, people who I was riding with, who were also drivers and petrolheads seemed to lose their rationality when in a group. I'm not sure if it's a pack mentality thing, or just a 'because we can' thing, but it really put me off (that and the lack of fitness and commitment...
). Unfortunately it’s hard to correct.
I’ve been a cyclist all of my life and a member of various clubs. Recently joined a start up club and in the main it’s pretty good, unfortunately there are 3 types of cyclist who ruin it:
1) the old codgers who know best, some of them were struggling with rotating their turn on the front, which is not a difficult concept to grasp, the fundamental issue being that there are two riders on the front and they only wanted to do one turn, so rather than just admitting that they swing off right to the back and attempt to stay there. I suggested a short video on the WhatsApp group to explain rotation and they ‘have better things to do than watch that’…
2) overweight guys on expensive bikes, they can hold the speed in the group on the flat but the moment we hit an incline they are all over the joint.
3) the younger ones who have never done a race in their life but think the club ride is a race so shoot off into the distance, tire, fall back into the group and repeat.
Some clubs are better than others, I do call it out but you can only say so much before you become an outcast.
I’ve been a cyclist all of my life and a member of various clubs. Recently joined a start up club and in the main it’s pretty good, unfortunately there are 3 types of cyclist who ruin it:
1) the old codgers who know best, some of them were struggling with rotating their turn on the front, which is not a difficult concept to grasp, the fundamental issue being that there are two riders on the front and they only wanted to do one turn, so rather than just admitting that they swing off right to the back and attempt to stay there. I suggested a short video on the WhatsApp group to explain rotation and they ‘have better things to do than watch that’…
2) overweight guys on expensive bikes, they can hold the speed in the group on the flat but the moment we hit an incline they are all over the joint.
3) the younger ones who have never done a race in their life but think the club ride is a race so shoot off into the distance, tire, fall back into the group and repeat.
Some clubs are better than others, I do call it out but you can only say so much before you become an outcast.
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