Has technology triumphed over poor conditions?
Discussion
Had an unpleasant couple of hours drive on the A1/A19 D/C
a few days ago. Dark, very heavy rain with need to go to ‘frantic’ on the wiper settings a few times.
Spent most of it in L1 @ 55-60 max.
Around 20 vehicles passed at a speed of a min of 80 to my best estimation. Range Rovers, BMW & Audi big 4x4’s & Hilux pickups noted.
I’ve never been in or driven any equivalent of these vehicles & was left wondering if all the driver aids, brakes & tyres they are equipped with these days means that such driving is actually quite safe.
No accidents to report but plenty of brake lights on in the distance as they paused then eventually ‘made progress’ beyond the majority of cars.
I was glad to turn off onto the B road home.
Anyone on here know what it’s like from their perspective?
a few days ago. Dark, very heavy rain with need to go to ‘frantic’ on the wiper settings a few times.
Spent most of it in L1 @ 55-60 max.
Around 20 vehicles passed at a speed of a min of 80 to my best estimation. Range Rovers, BMW & Audi big 4x4’s & Hilux pickups noted.
I’ve never been in or driven any equivalent of these vehicles & was left wondering if all the driver aids, brakes & tyres they are equipped with these days means that such driving is actually quite safe.
No accidents to report but plenty of brake lights on in the distance as they paused then eventually ‘made progress’ beyond the majority of cars.
I was glad to turn off onto the B road home.
Anyone on here know what it’s like from their perspective?
I don't know the answer but I've often found myself doing a maximum possible sensible speed of around 50 in these kind of conditions and had, mainly SUVs, passing me like I'm standing still. I can't help wondering if these vehicles are genuinely better in these conditions, or prompt a false sense of security in their drivers, or are simply piloted by the same kind of rabid psychopaths who were responsible for the "BMW driver" stereotype before the advent of SUVs.
I’d say that the choice of car doing those speeds in such poor conditions is more diverse than the OP suggests IME. SUVs and German brands just conform to the stereotype in PH. I’ve seen just as many other makes being driven inappropriately in the wet. There could well be a perception of an enhanced safety cell in a 2 tonne 4x4 but most cars less than 15 years old have good electronic stability programmes which add to the insurance against fudgewittery.
The make/model of car speeding on motorways in bad weather with poor visibility is more diverse than has been said. If I had to name a type it would white van man.
Some vehicles handling may be less affected by standing water than others (larger diameter wheels for one thing) and some vehicles may have better visibility in those conditions (maybe screen less raked, taller ride height more out of other vehicle's road spray) but still there's a wide range of vehicles do it.
Probably down to the driver, how much of a chancer they are, how unaware of the dangers or arrogant they are, whether or not they are in a rush (which may boil down to if they're on company time or their own time).
Some vehicles handling may be less affected by standing water than others (larger diameter wheels for one thing) and some vehicles may have better visibility in those conditions (maybe screen less raked, taller ride height more out of other vehicle's road spray) but still there's a wide range of vehicles do it.
Probably down to the driver, how much of a chancer they are, how unaware of the dangers or arrogant they are, whether or not they are in a rush (which may boil down to if they're on company time or their own time).
SimonYorkshire said:
The make/model of car speeding on motorways in bad weather with poor visibility is more diverse than has been said. If I had to name a type it would white van man.
Based on my observations... vans, SUVs and those SUV-esque pickup trucks. Brand irrelevent. Age/gender of driver irrelevant.I feel very vulnerable driving in those sort of conditions in my MX5. Sitting low down means that visibility is poor due to road spray. I have much better visibility in my Dacia Duster, due to the higher driving position. That said, in bad weather I prefer sitting in lane one at a sensible speed, whatever vehicle I am in.
To me my biggest fear in those conditions is aquaplaning. I've noticed in those extreme situations L3 seems to have more standing water near the central reservation than the other lanes so I avoid that lane nowadays as I've had a few scary moments where that "patch of water" turns out to be far deeper than I expected.
I have the afore mentioned big audi (latest generation a6).
These things weigh north of 2 tonnes so unless your tyres have no tread they are less prone to or the threshold to actually aquaplane is that much higher than lighter cars which I feel gives a greater sense of stability when pressing on in poor weather.
I don't think it is the driver aids that are helping more the sheer weight of them which also works against stopping if needed or if it goes wrong.
The other thing is they are so quiet inside you feel cocooned and isolated from what is happening outside which may not be such a good thing in poor weather.
These things weigh north of 2 tonnes so unless your tyres have no tread they are less prone to or the threshold to actually aquaplane is that much higher than lighter cars which I feel gives a greater sense of stability when pressing on in poor weather.
I don't think it is the driver aids that are helping more the sheer weight of them which also works against stopping if needed or if it goes wrong.
The other thing is they are so quiet inside you feel cocooned and isolated from what is happening outside which may not be such a good thing in poor weather.
Heavy SUV's pick ups 4x4s typically large tyres often of an all terrain or all season pattern, deeper treads designed to shift water sideways on most except for chelsea tractors, compare to a typical car summer tyre which might have only 4 or 5 straight cut treads with only 6/7mm tread when new, nowhere for the water to go other than build up in front of the tyre till eventually its become a ski.
Keep a note of the cars that end up in the armco having overdone it in the outside lane in bad weather, almost always the same type.
All season ATs typically come with around 10mm, some with more than that with masses of angles and side treads to shift water.
Have you looked at the state of the tyres some people are running, gives me the shudders, often too wide for the car in the first place if common sense were used instead of image (got to fill the arches mate) masses of unheard of tat worn down to 3mm or less.
I don't see what on board electronics are supposed to do when the tyres fitted physically can't shift the weight of water
Keep a note of the cars that end up in the armco having overdone it in the outside lane in bad weather, almost always the same type.
All season ATs typically come with around 10mm, some with more than that with masses of angles and side treads to shift water.
Have you looked at the state of the tyres some people are running, gives me the shudders, often too wide for the car in the first place if common sense were used instead of image (got to fill the arches mate) masses of unheard of tat worn down to 3mm or less.
I don't see what on board electronics are supposed to do when the tyres fitted physically can't shift the weight of water
L405 Range Rover.
Pirelli Scorpion Verde tyres.
You can maintain speed in fairly frightful conditions as, mentioned above, far less chance of aquaplaning.
The other factor is you can see so much better as you are above the road spray.
Not advocating roaring around when it's busy, as of everyone else is going slowly you are a hazard trying to still make progress, and if you do happen to aquaplane you'll collect a couple of innocent cars on your way to the accident site.
However on a quiet motorway with standing water the Range Rover essentially ploughs straight on in a very impressive fashion.
I can easily see how a less conscientious driver could be lulled in to a false sense of security. Thankfully I also drive a TVR so I am acutely aware of how vulnerable you can feel on a busy motorway in bad conditions!
Pirelli Scorpion Verde tyres.
You can maintain speed in fairly frightful conditions as, mentioned above, far less chance of aquaplaning.
The other factor is you can see so much better as you are above the road spray.
Not advocating roaring around when it's busy, as of everyone else is going slowly you are a hazard trying to still make progress, and if you do happen to aquaplane you'll collect a couple of innocent cars on your way to the accident site.
However on a quiet motorway with standing water the Range Rover essentially ploughs straight on in a very impressive fashion.
I can easily see how a less conscientious driver could be lulled in to a false sense of security. Thankfully I also drive a TVR so I am acutely aware of how vulnerable you can feel on a busy motorway in bad conditions!
Edited by Stick Legs on Friday 5th December 23:33
20 years ago I ran a Disco with MT tyres and it would sail through standing water (much to the upset of people sat on my bumper!).
However, being able to stop in the visible distance remains unchanged and I’m amazed when people fly past in abysmal conditions when you can only see 10s of metres ahead. Guessing they are lucky! Maybe ACC plays a part…
However, being able to stop in the visible distance remains unchanged and I’m amazed when people fly past in abysmal conditions when you can only see 10s of metres ahead. Guessing they are lucky! Maybe ACC plays a part…
ROTELLA said:
Had an unpleasant couple of hours drive on the A1/A19 D/C
a few days ago. Dark, very heavy rain with need to go to frantic on the wiper settings a few times.
Spent most of it in L1 @ 55-60 max.
Around 20 vehicles passed at a speed of a min of 80 to my best estimation. Range Rovers, BMW & Audi big 4x4 s & Hilux pickups noted.
I ve never been in or driven any equivalent of these vehicles & was left wondering if all the driver aids, brakes & tyres they are equipped with these days means that such driving is actually quite safe.
No accidents to report but plenty of brake lights on in the distance as they paused then eventually made progress beyond the majority of cars.
I was glad to turn off onto the B road home.
Anyone on here know what it s like from their perspective?
Our fancy dan Volvo XC60 is exceptional at barrelling along in the outside lane, and the safety systems work brilliantly. But physics still applies. The 20” wheels seem more prone than previous cars to aquaplaning on fast wet motorways. Plenty enough reason for me to keep speeds down in those conditions. a few days ago. Dark, very heavy rain with need to go to frantic on the wiper settings a few times.
Spent most of it in L1 @ 55-60 max.
Around 20 vehicles passed at a speed of a min of 80 to my best estimation. Range Rovers, BMW & Audi big 4x4 s & Hilux pickups noted.
I ve never been in or driven any equivalent of these vehicles & was left wondering if all the driver aids, brakes & tyres they are equipped with these days means that such driving is actually quite safe.
No accidents to report but plenty of brake lights on in the distance as they paused then eventually made progress beyond the majority of cars.
I was glad to turn off onto the B road home.
Anyone on here know what it s like from their perspective?
But the Achilles heel of big comfy cars being so good at isolating you from what’s going on outside is that for some drivers, maybe they don’t even recognise the symptoms of aquaplaning and know to back off.
The PS4S tyres on my large German 4x4 cut through water fantastically, even better than full winters ive owned. My other cars all get dragged around by standing water to some degree.
What doesnt change is the braking distances. Ill barrel along at decent speed only where the lane ahead is clear.
What doesnt change is the braking distances. Ill barrel along at decent speed only where the lane ahead is clear.
A few years ago on the M4 in atrocious weather a new Mercedes GLE coupe came barrelling past, must have been doing 80+mph in 50mph conditions. About 5 miles down the road we caught up with it as it had bounced off the barriers and wasn't looking quite as serene. Presumably whatever tech it had wasn't quite up to the job of preventing the extremely wide tyres from surfing.
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