Why N rated tyres for Porsche?

[ChrisW.]

This is worth a watch ... PS4S for BMW but just an example of how the manufacturers work with Michelin ....

[SkinnyPete]

Still not as good as newer, non N rated tyres.

[Crudeoink]

SkinnyPete said:

Still not as good as newer, non N rated tyres.

Yep, there are those that insist on buying N rated tyres that havent been updated in decades and then there are those that claim non-N rated invalidates your insurance and MOT

[ChrisW.]

Possibly the case that newer tyres could be better -- if available in the right size -- it would be useful if Porsche could keep us informed but I guess they get a cut out of an N rating and wouldn't use non-N rated tyres on new cars ... ??

[RDMcG]

I do it through a combination of laziness and use of extended warranties in the GT cars. Out of warranty I make other choices.

[Ed.Neumann]

There is also a video out there from Porsche Club Of America talking about suspension and tyres and from memory someone from Michelin is there and they discuss why the N rated PS4S is so much better than the off the shelf version.

Much stiffer compound on the outside 1/3's and sidewalls to give you the steering feel Porsche expect from their cars.

[John D.]

ChrisW. said:

Possibly the case that newer tyres could be better -- if available in the right size -- it would be useful if Porsche could keep us informed but I guess they get a cut out of an N rating and wouldn't use non-N rated tyres on new cars ... ??

How would Porsche know? They'd have to test each new tyre on old models to find out.

[Trash_panda]

I wonder at what 10th and road conditions and variables youd have to be going to notice the difference between the 2 compounds and whether a weekend warrior (put myself in that bracket) would even be able to tell

[RDMcG]

John D. said:

How would Porsche know? They'd have to test each new tyre on old models to find out.

Interestingly they did develop a completely new N rated tire for the Carrera GT which did not have adequate tire technology when it was in production.

[John D.]

RDMcG said:

John D. said:

How would Porsche know? They'd have to test each new tyre on old models to find out.

Interestingly they did develop a completely new N rated tire for the Carrera GT which did not have adequate tire technology when it was in production.

Exception to the rule I imagine. A halo car, and famous for inadequate tyre technology.

Still my favourite supercar.

[Ed.Neumann]

Trash_panda said:

I wonder at what 10th and road conditions and variables youd have to be going to notice the difference between the 2 compounds and whether a weekend warrior (put myself in that bracket) would even be able to tell

The difference is absolutely massive.

The off the shelf PS4S on a Porsche is rubbish, the steering feel is horrible, the turn in and off centre response is so wooly.

Still think there are better tyres than the N rated PS4S tyre, but the N rated PS4S is night and day better than the non N rated, it is not about when you are pressing on, it is the minute you turn the steering wheel. It is far from subtle.

[Ed.Neumann]

SkinnyPete said:

Still not as good as newer, non N rated tyres.

The N rated PS2 has much sharper steering than the non N rated PS4S, which in turn is not as numb as the PS5.

Move to say a Conti Sport Contact or the new Bridgestone Potenza Sport and I agree, they both beat any of the above and non are N rated.


So no, you don't need N rated, but, and it is a big but, Porsche expect a certain feel from their cars, and will work with tyre manufacturers to get a tyre to where they expect it to be feel wise before signing it off and giving it an N rating.

It took 6 years for Porsche and Michelin to get the PS4S signed off.

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Monday 8th December 00:33

[ettore]

Ed.Neumann said:

The difference is absolutely massive.

The off the shelf PS4S on a Porsche is rubbish, the steering feel is horrible, the turn in and off centre response is so wooly.

Still think there are better tyres than the N rated PS4S tyre, but the N rated PS4S is night and day better than the non N rated, it is not about when you are pressing on, it is the minute you turn the steering wheel. It is far from subtle.

Agree, doesn t mean there aren’t multiple choices but when buying a specific tyre, if there is an N rating, then get it.

The most egregious example I had was non Porsche, but I put a brace of MGR (Maserati) rated Pirelli s instead of J on the back of my P575 F Type. fked it right up!

[maz8062]

Ed.Neumann said:

SkinnyPete said:

Still not as good as newer, non N rated tyres.

The N rated PS2 has much sharper steering than the non N rated PS4S, which in turn is not as numb as the PS5.

Move to say a Conti Sport Contact or the new Bridgestone Potenza Sport and I agree, they both beat any of the above and non are N rated.


So no, you don't need N rated, but, and it is a big but, Porsche expect a certain feel from their cars, and will work with tyre manufacturers to get a tyre to where they expect it to be feel wise before signing it off and giving it an N rating.

It took 6 years for Porsche and Michelin to get the PS4S signed off.

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Monday 8th December 00:33

You know, I can't get my head around why folk spend £££££'s buying these cars, ££££'s on a set of tyres, and opt not to buy N rated tyres. I don't get it.

Each to their own, I guess.

[SV_WDC]

Trash_panda said:

I wonder at what 10th and road conditions and variables youd have to be going to notice the difference between the 2 compounds and whether a weekend warrior (put myself in that bracket) would even be able to tell

Yes, a lot of posters on forums you'd think they are professional racing drivers

[isaldiri]

Ed.Neumann said:

There is also a video out there from Porsche Club Of America talking about suspension and tyres and from memory someone from Michelin is there and they discuss why the N rated PS4S is so much better than the off the shelf version.
...

they would say that wouldn't they....?

[Crudeoink]

Ed.Neumann said:

The N rated PS2 has much sharper steering than the non N rated PS4S, which in turn is not as numb as the PS5.

Edited by Ed.Neumann on Monday 8th December 00:33

The last iteration of the PS2 (the N4) was released in the summer of 2015, its compound and tech over a decade old already. I understand wanting to use N rated tyres on more modern porsches but you still see people hell bent on getting the PS2 tyres in 996 and 997 fitments

[Ed.Neumann]

isaldiri said:

they would say that wouldn't they....?

Haha, Well yeah, but they do explain why.

And anyone who has gone from say a Bridgestone to a PS4S on a 911 will totally get why they made the changes for the N rated tyre, and what those changes bring to the table.

[Ed.Neumann]

SV_WDC said:

Trash_panda said:

I wonder at what 10th and road conditions and variables youd have to be going to notice the difference between the 2 compounds and whether a weekend warrior (put myself in that bracket) would even be able to tell

Yes, a lot of posters on forums you'd think they are professional racing drivers

Seriously, you only have to start turning the wheel to feel it. This is not a case of having to be really pushing the car or subtle differences here.

The best way to describe the difference is like the car has had much stiffer anti roll bars fitted and another 1/2 degree of camber on the front too.

Instantly the steering sharpens up, and the turn in off centre is instant, it is really satisfying.

I went the other, I went non N rated, and that was even more noticeable. It felt like the tyres were at 15psi, I genuinely went straight to the petrol station to check the pressures it felt so 'wooly'. That is the best word to describe it.

[Ed.Neumann]

Crudeoink said:

Ed.Neumann said:

The N rated PS2 has much sharper steering than the non N rated PS4S, which in turn is not as numb as the PS5.

The last iteration of the PS2 (the N4) was released in the summer of 2015, its compound and tech over a decade old already. I understand wanting to use N rated tyres on more modern porsches but you still see people hell bent on getting the PS2 tyres in 996 and 997 fitments

But you can't take away the fact that the N rated PS2, like you say, a tyres that was last updated a decade ago, still has far better steering response and feel than any non N rated Michelin on those cars. Including Cup 2s.

Would I buy them? No.
They are noisy, too firm, grip in the wet is no where near as good as even a standard PS4 and they are outclassed by other newer tyres out there, but I wouldn't be choosing a Michelin if buying something else as for me, personally, steering feel is everything on these cars and the non N rated Michelins just don't cut it.


I think the issue for many is most of us are Michelin fan boys, myself included, and after spending £800 on a new set of tyres we notice the positives, comfier, quieter, more outright grip, amazing in the wet and love them.
We end up forgetting what the positives were on the older tyres, thing is tech has moved on, and you can now get all the above but with steering feel too. Outside 1/3 in much firmer rubber, slightly stiffer sidewall on the outside so you don't get the flex as you load them up. You can have both.

I'm sure when we see the PS S5 or whatever it is called, arrive in more sizes and people start buying that, everyone will start raving about the steering feel.