Buying a hotel in Lakes
Discussion
Long shot but hoping some wise hoteliers on here with some info and wise council re buying and running a hotel in the lakes. https://www.colliers.com/en-gb/properties/for-sale...
Was doing around £1.4m gross in 2022/3. Owner aged out and banks closed in. It was up for £2.75m when running and now disused for 18months. Pics are not from today and now looks sad.
I think it’s £750k-850k and not had pushback at those discussions. Fabulous location, but had been left to demise in latter years. Prob needs £250k to get it running and £500k spending in yrs 3-5. Keep it cozy and Cumbrian not a Marriot refurb.
Need to hive off some rooms for staff. F&B did £950k in best year.
Was doing around £1.4m gross in 2022/3. Owner aged out and banks closed in. It was up for £2.75m when running and now disused for 18months. Pics are not from today and now looks sad.
I think it’s £750k-850k and not had pushback at those discussions. Fabulous location, but had been left to demise in latter years. Prob needs £250k to get it running and £500k spending in yrs 3-5. Keep it cozy and Cumbrian not a Marriot refurb.
Need to hive off some rooms for staff. F&B did £950k in best year.
What's your experience in the hospitality industry?
If the answer is "none" then run away very quickly.
If the answer is "some" then think very carefully. Almost all pubs and restaurants have been struggling since the East European pool of labour was closed off and even more so since Rachel Reeves hiked the cost of employing staff. Then you've got business rates, energy costs, compliance with regulations and all the rest of it. Margins are likely to be wafer thin. And then you get to the question of location because the Lake District means tourists and that means heavy seasonality. It's difficult to make enough in the summer to tide you through the quiet winter months. And the working hours will be dreadful.
Also, if it's been disused for 18 months how long will it take to build up trade from a standing start? You have all the costs up front but the income stream is uncertain and may be a long way in the future.
In summary, cheap - for a reason.
If the answer is "none" then run away very quickly.
If the answer is "some" then think very carefully. Almost all pubs and restaurants have been struggling since the East European pool of labour was closed off and even more so since Rachel Reeves hiked the cost of employing staff. Then you've got business rates, energy costs, compliance with regulations and all the rest of it. Margins are likely to be wafer thin. And then you get to the question of location because the Lake District means tourists and that means heavy seasonality. It's difficult to make enough in the summer to tide you through the quiet winter months. And the working hours will be dreadful.
Also, if it's been disused for 18 months how long will it take to build up trade from a standing start? You have all the costs up front but the income stream is uncertain and may be a long way in the future.
In summary, cheap - for a reason.
A (late) good friend and business associate owned a hotel on the outskirts of the lakes near Workington. He made a fortune in Marine Engineering and purchased the hotel as something to do post early retirement from that and as a means to give his kids a business to fall into later on. Had it for 20 years and I got to see how things work quite well.
Oddly, on first glance I thought the link you posted was his hotel as visually, they are very similar. And he bought his in what I think is a very similar state to that which you're looking at.
He did make a small profit from it, but mostly it was about breaking even. The only way he could achieve this was to avoid investment in developing it and instead just maintain the place. The bedrooms were straight out of 1976 (avocado bathrooms, MFI wardrobes and furniture, etc). The money he poured into the place was eye watering. I was with him overseas when his wife called to say that the boiler and pump needed replacing - not at some point in the future but there and then as they had a coach party booked in - £80k! The legislation changed which required him to change what was a perfectly good filtration system in the kitchen - £40k (IIRC).
His stock-in-trade was what he called the Bingo Bus Brigade - coach tours of old people. They'd fill the place, arriving from their day out at 5pm. Have a simple dinner at 6pm (without expectation of artisan sourdough toast with their starters and order wine by colour not grape), maybe a bit of entertainment in the bar and all in bed by 9pm!
The most money and the easiest money he made was during covid. The government booked the entire hotel for around six months as a place to house low-risk convicts. The government provided the food - they just had to cook it. Bar had to remain shut (except for a couple of hours in the evening when the live-in security guards knocked off for the night).
He died a few years back and last I heard his wife was selling to Travelodge or similar.
Oddly, on first glance I thought the link you posted was his hotel as visually, they are very similar. And he bought his in what I think is a very similar state to that which you're looking at.
He did make a small profit from it, but mostly it was about breaking even. The only way he could achieve this was to avoid investment in developing it and instead just maintain the place. The bedrooms were straight out of 1976 (avocado bathrooms, MFI wardrobes and furniture, etc). The money he poured into the place was eye watering. I was with him overseas when his wife called to say that the boiler and pump needed replacing - not at some point in the future but there and then as they had a coach party booked in - £80k! The legislation changed which required him to change what was a perfectly good filtration system in the kitchen - £40k (IIRC).
His stock-in-trade was what he called the Bingo Bus Brigade - coach tours of old people. They'd fill the place, arriving from their day out at 5pm. Have a simple dinner at 6pm (without expectation of artisan sourdough toast with their starters and order wine by colour not grape), maybe a bit of entertainment in the bar and all in bed by 9pm!
The most money and the easiest money he made was during covid. The government booked the entire hotel for around six months as a place to house low-risk convicts. The government provided the food - they just had to cook it. Bar had to remain shut (except for a couple of hours in the evening when the live-in security guards knocked off for the night).
He died a few years back and last I heard his wife was selling to Travelodge or similar.
Looks like a big project if you're a starter.
I've recently left a corporate career and taken a partnership in a small hospitality/retail business in West London. Nothing like the scale of what you're looking at and it's bloody hard work.
Getting the staff trained and motivated is a constant (and needed) energy drain, expectations from customers huge (rightly so) and Brexit has totally fubared supply chains.
I hope to go it alone at some point but would choose a location well within my anticipated capability as it will be harder than I predicted.
I've recently left a corporate career and taken a partnership in a small hospitality/retail business in West London. Nothing like the scale of what you're looking at and it's bloody hard work.
Getting the staff trained and motivated is a constant (and needed) energy drain, expectations from customers huge (rightly so) and Brexit has totally fubared supply chains.
I hope to go it alone at some point but would choose a location well within my anticipated capability as it will be harder than I predicted.
Living at the edge of the Yorkshire dales and having spent quite a lot of time in the Lakes, you get chatting to the managers, staff etc
The point about Labour is a key one. Lots of villages and towns have been taken over by second homes, rentals etc, so the local, min wage labour force has shrunk over the last 5-10 years, compounded by Brexit, etc
So getting good staff will be a challenge, and there is only so far they can/will commute.
Factor in all of the other costs and unknowns, I turn the question around.
Given its location, what gap exists in the market for a hotel? Do you want to be generic? Or specialise as a walking base/cycling base? Or wellness retreat with yoga? Or weddings? Etc
You could use Google and some Google Gemini, to research the locale and draw in summary data from Tripadvisor, companies house for accounts etc
Personally I’d find a couple of similar sized hotels that have a vaguely similar vibe to your ideas and then go for a driving tour for a couple of days, preferably in Jan. the logic being that if you can be busy in Jan for food/drinks etc then they are doing something riight. Talk to as many of the staff as reasonably possible without giving the reason (or just be vague that you are thinking of retiring up there etc and wondering about part time jobs, etc
The point about Labour is a key one. Lots of villages and towns have been taken over by second homes, rentals etc, so the local, min wage labour force has shrunk over the last 5-10 years, compounded by Brexit, etc
So getting good staff will be a challenge, and there is only so far they can/will commute.
Factor in all of the other costs and unknowns, I turn the question around.
Given its location, what gap exists in the market for a hotel? Do you want to be generic? Or specialise as a walking base/cycling base? Or wellness retreat with yoga? Or weddings? Etc
You could use Google and some Google Gemini, to research the locale and draw in summary data from Tripadvisor, companies house for accounts etc
Personally I’d find a couple of similar sized hotels that have a vaguely similar vibe to your ideas and then go for a driving tour for a couple of days, preferably in Jan. the logic being that if you can be busy in Jan for food/drinks etc then they are doing something riight. Talk to as many of the staff as reasonably possible without giving the reason (or just be vague that you are thinking of retiring up there etc and wondering about part time jobs, etc
Go super high end or super low end.
The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
One of our favourite haunts in the Lakes is a near-hostel style, low end but lovely hotel catering for the budget traveller. Shared kitchens and bufet breakfast. Honest and Karen's not welcome.
Or....... You need a unique selling point like some zero carbon stay guff or a Carnivores only menu offering, or zero gravity or something
The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
One of our favourite haunts in the Lakes is a near-hostel style, low end but lovely hotel catering for the budget traveller. Shared kitchens and bufet breakfast. Honest and Karen's not welcome.
Or....... You need a unique selling point like some zero carbon stay guff or a Carnivores only menu offering, or zero gravity or something
If its breaking even you'll never see outside the building. If its busy you'll be constantly standing in for staff sickness or leavers/sacked staff and you'll constantly be worrying "what next".
Its worse than running a pub. Far worse!
At least in a pub you dont find pictures online of one of your bathrooms with a dusty wall ledge posted up.
Its worse than running a pub. Far worse!
At least in a pub you dont find pictures online of one of your bathrooms with a dusty wall ledge posted up.
The_Doc said:
Go super high end or super low end.
The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
They're low-balling themselves; take a look at the high season prices here and that doesn't include dinner. The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
hidetheelephants said:
The_Doc said:
Go super high end or super low end.
The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
They're low-balling themselves; take a look at the high season prices here and that doesn't include dinner. The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
Well indeed.
Prices *from* £300/night.
How about £1000/night, which does include a Boxing day walk. But I will be charging a £150 walk fee if you come onto my laaaaaaannnnnddd!
StevieBee said:
The most money and the easiest money he made was during covid. The government booked the entire hotel for around six months as a place to house low-risk convicts.
The OP could do that too, because the prisons are full. Or maybe get a contract for housing asylum seekers - easy money and just ignore local concerns. He could start a taxi company too 
hidetheelephants said:
The_Doc said:
Go super high end or super low end.
The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
They're low-balling themselves; take a look at the high season prices here and that doesn't include dinner. The middle does not hold much anymore.
Theres a boutique hotel down the road from me in Cumbria, that has rich ownwrs and is £300/night and now has a Michelin starred restaurant. Small and exotic.
ATG said:
I'd like a hotel that has a back entrance for walkers into a boot room which leads to a drying room that doesn't smell like you've now caught Legionnaires. The boot room should lead into a bar with plenty of space to stand next to a bloody enormous fire.
But then you'd have a bar full of shoeless sweaty feet. ATG said:
I'd like a hotel that has a back entrance for walkers into a boot room which leads to a drying room that doesn't smell like you've now caught Legionnaires. The boot room should lead into a bar with plenty of space to stand next to a bloody enormous fire.
Brimstone hotel. Boot room stocked with free to use waterproof gear.
Free bar and reading room. Concierge staff available on the phone with warmed Defender 110 ready to take you anywhere.
https://www.brimstonehotel.co.uk/
Book the spa suite https://www.brimstonehotel.co.uk/rooms/spa-suite/
Like I say, go ultra high end and hotels work.
I'd give it a swerve myself, I was in (4*+) hospitality management in the Lake District for a lot of years, the biggest issue now is finding and keeping staff, all the Europeans went home during covid and never came back, the locals don't want the work, we had 60 staff pre covid, when I got out of the game (in 2021) the hotel was struggling with only 25 full and part time staff and we simply could not recruit to fill the vacancies, so staff churn increases as they end up overworked, and rinse and repeat again and again.
There are also a lot of lunatics in hospitality, our staff accommodation was frequently smashed up, drinking and drug taking was/is absolutely rife, agency staff can be a nightmare also, we'd go through five chefs a week some weeks, or they would be that pissed from the night before I'd end up having to cook breakfast myself.
I haven't even mentioned the guests!
I'm glad to be out of it!
There are also a lot of lunatics in hospitality, our staff accommodation was frequently smashed up, drinking and drug taking was/is absolutely rife, agency staff can be a nightmare also, we'd go through five chefs a week some weeks, or they would be that pissed from the night before I'd end up having to cook breakfast myself.
I haven't even mentioned the guests!
I'm glad to be out of it!
Edited by Jazoli on Wednesday 3rd December 15:48
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff