The Benefits System
Discussion
I'm splitting this off from the Rachel Reeves thread because I think it deserves its own discussion.
This also astonished and outraged me, so I did some digging to understand how this can be possible.
Turns out Thea Jaffe has appeared in the media on multiple occasions over the past few years (usually arguing that the two child benefit cap should be abolished), and has revealed a fair bit of information about her circumstances. Examples include:
Thea is from New York but has a German passport. She appears to have come to London do to a Masters at UCL, and has stayed ever since. She works full-time for a company called Cartus, and told CNN that she earns £45,000 a year.
She has three children, one of school age, and two in nursery. She is on record as describing both the second and third pregnancies as “unexpected”, and decided to have the third child even though she was aware of the two child benefit cap.
All three children appear to be by the same father, Jorgenho Batista (who doesn't have much of an online presence - the only information I could find is that he was a dance teacher at the Paraiso School of Samba in August 2017). Based on her social media feed, they appear to be on good terms (they all went trick-or-treating together as family at Halloween 2024, and he appears in photos with or taken by other Jaffe family members).
Thea runs the Finsbury Park Gingerbread group, so we can assume she lives somewhere around there.
Her nursery costs are slightly below the average for Inner London.
To earn £6,142 per month after tax, you’d need to be on an annual salary of £113,534 (net of any pension contributions).
Going through a Universal Credit calculator, I can’t get the results to match the numbers cited in the Mirror's article, but someone in her position as described above who has no savings would appear to be entitled to £3,486.88 in UC per month (£4,800.89 minus £1,314.01 taken off for earnings) plus £262.38 per month in child benefit, so she's not making this up.
So, all of that is interesting enough but here's where things get really weird.
On a hunch, I went through the same benefits calculator using the same profile for age, income, location, rent, etc., but with no children. It told me that I was entitled to £300 per month!
WTAF?! Forty, taking home £2,800 after tax and pension contribs, living in a one-bed apartment in Finsbury Park (N16 5HG), and you're entitled to £3,600 in benefits a year?!
Maybe it's a mistake? Well, a different calculator suggested that I would be entitled to £326.62 per month!!!
I'd encourage everyone to try out the calculator to see if they're entitled to anything. Just pretend you have no savings because Universal Credit is clearly custom-designed to disincentivise saving...
wiggy001 said:
CardinalBlue said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/skint-pregn...
The second person in this article - if my maths is correct has the equivalent of a 113k salary?
I really wish you hadn't posted that. Has really made me angry that someone is so entitled that they are complaining about their lot in life when their income is that of the top 1% of earners.The second person in this article - if my maths is correct has the equivalent of a 113k salary?
Turns out Thea Jaffe has appeared in the media on multiple occasions over the past few years (usually arguing that the two child benefit cap should be abolished), and has revealed a fair bit of information about her circumstances. Examples include:
- May 2024 - Sky News
- July 2024 - BBC News
- June 2025 - Yahoo! News
- Nov 2025 - CNN
- Nov 2025 - The Mirror
Thea is from New York but has a German passport. She appears to have come to London do to a Masters at UCL, and has stayed ever since. She works full-time for a company called Cartus, and told CNN that she earns £45,000 a year.
She has three children, one of school age, and two in nursery. She is on record as describing both the second and third pregnancies as “unexpected”, and decided to have the third child even though she was aware of the two child benefit cap.
All three children appear to be by the same father, Jorgenho Batista (who doesn't have much of an online presence - the only information I could find is that he was a dance teacher at the Paraiso School of Samba in August 2017). Based on her social media feed, they appear to be on good terms (they all went trick-or-treating together as family at Halloween 2024, and he appears in photos with or taken by other Jaffe family members).
In June 2025 Thea said:
”I’m in the area of north London I’ve lived in since 2009, rent for my one-bed apartment is £2,000 a month.
"Childcare for my two youngest children, who are a baby and a toddler, is £2,600 a month. I’m bringing in £2,800 a month from my employer. Added to that the after-school club for my 10-year-old, who is in year five, is £300 a month.”
"Childcare for my two youngest children, who are a baby and a toddler, is £2,600 a month. I’m bringing in £2,800 a month from my employer. Added to that the after-school club for my 10-year-old, who is in year five, is £300 a month.”
The Mirror said:
In a good month when UC gives full entitlement, Thea has a total of £6,142.00, from £2,800 in take-home pay and £3,342 in universal credit plus child benefit. Her monthly expenses such as childcare, rent, council tax, energy and food etc are usually around £6000.
A monthly take-home of £2,800 from a salary of £45,000 implies that she’s making pension contributions of £2,900 per annum. Thea runs the Finsbury Park Gingerbread group, so we can assume she lives somewhere around there.
Her nursery costs are slightly below the average for Inner London.
To earn £6,142 per month after tax, you’d need to be on an annual salary of £113,534 (net of any pension contributions).
Going through a Universal Credit calculator, I can’t get the results to match the numbers cited in the Mirror's article, but someone in her position as described above who has no savings would appear to be entitled to £3,486.88 in UC per month (£4,800.89 minus £1,314.01 taken off for earnings) plus £262.38 per month in child benefit, so she's not making this up.
wiggy001 said:
What happened to the benefits cap?
Turns out there are a bunch of exceptions to the benefit cap, including if you “get Universal Credit and you and your partner earn £846 or more a month combined, after tax and National Insurance contributions”. So, all of that is interesting enough but here's where things get really weird.
On a hunch, I went through the same benefits calculator using the same profile for age, income, location, rent, etc., but with no children. It told me that I was entitled to £300 per month!
WTAF?! Forty, taking home £2,800 after tax and pension contribs, living in a one-bed apartment in Finsbury Park (N16 5HG), and you're entitled to £3,600 in benefits a year?!
Maybe it's a mistake? Well, a different calculator suggested that I would be entitled to £326.62 per month!!!
wiggy001 said:
Un-f
king-believable.
Indeed. There's so much wrong with this: perverse incentives, moral hazard when it comes to birth control, the inflationary impacts... It's absolutely mind-boggling! king-believable.I'd encourage everyone to try out the calculator to see if they're entitled to anything. Just pretend you have no savings because Universal Credit is clearly custom-designed to disincentivise saving...
It’s got to be more widespread than everyone imagines. I’m aware of a lot of people living lifestyles that don’t match what their jobs pay. I know you can’t factor in inheritances, debt and other factors, but still!
Maybe the sooner we have a universal basic income the better! No ifs or buts, the amount is the amount and if you want more you work for it.
Maybe the sooner we have a universal basic income the better! No ifs or buts, the amount is the amount and if you want more you work for it.
Edible Roadkill said:
Yep absolute madness.
I ve come to the conclusion tou might as well claim what you can.
I'm frothing as one of my nieces has decided to do this after being made redundant. She has two kids, one with a label, so gets extra.I ve come to the conclusion tou might as well claim what you can.
My Dad would be turning in his grave if he wasn't cremated.
Being on benefits was something that people were ashamed of in my generation.
SmoothCriminal said:
Sickening that if you are a hard working tax payer they steal more of your income and then reduced your personal allowance childcare and child benefit.
But if you are on benefits they'll top you up to over 100k.
Absolute lunacy.
What they should do is allow a proportion of your childcare to come out of your gross income. That rewards work but also provides a bit of a safety net to help with childcare costs.But if you are on benefits they'll top you up to over 100k.
Absolute lunacy.
Granadier said:
I don't understand. I would've assumed that a salary of £45,000 would put someone well above the earnings threshold and therefore ineligible to claim benefits. Could someone explain how she qualifies?
Pension contributions.I’m about to start doing the same tbf, though won’t be entitled to her lot just the child benefit.
It really is every man for themselves, if you’re not clued up you’ll just be taken advantage of.
WPA said:
Just confirms that the system is broken and only going to get worse following the budget
Problem with any system that covers such a wide range of people is that there are always those who know how to utterly milk it. These kind of car crash stories littler the tabloids. It's best just not read them.
Bluevanman said:
I have a vague memory of the Tories bringing in a cap of £500 per week on benefits no matter how many children you had
Tell me you haven't bothered to read the OP without saying "I haven't bothered reading the OP."MadCaptainJack said:
Turns out there are a bunch of exceptions to the benefit cap, including if you get Universal Credit and you and your partner earn £846 or more a month combined, after tax and National Insurance contributions .
Frimley111R said:
Problem with any system that covers such a wide range of people is that there are always those who know how to utterly milk it.
These kind of car crash stories littler the tabloids. It's best just not read them.
Agreed it's hard to get a grasp on just how many are actually milking the system vs those that genuinely need help.These kind of car crash stories littler the tabloids. It's best just not read them.
But I suspect we ALL personally know at least two or three households that appear to be taking the piss, I'd love to know just how widespread it is.
Edible Roadkill said:
Pension contributions.
I m about to start doing the same tbf, though won t be entitled to her lot just the child benefit.
It really is every man for themselves, if you re not clued up you ll just be taken advantage of.
It's mad that thats even a thing, but I tried it and yes, it does kind of work. Admittedly I'd be leaving myself 1200 a month to live on with bills way more than that, and have to spend / put into mortgage any savings, but then would get 238 a month UC. That seems daft.I m about to start doing the same tbf, though won t be entitled to her lot just the child benefit.
It really is every man for themselves, if you re not clued up you ll just be taken advantage of.
Edited by bstb3 on Thursday 27th November 16:37
bstb3 said:
Not sure you can pension contribution yourself into benefits? I just tried one of the online calculators recommended by HMRC and even at 100% of my salary stuck into pensions and some jiggery pokery around savings it was still telling me I would get nowt, which makes more sense.
Happy to be shown wrong, but that seems very odd.
You can’t salary sacrifice yourself to earn under the national minimum wage.Happy to be shown wrong, but that seems very odd.
But you can take yourself off any of the cliff edges, such as:
The 100k 60% tax trap (plus loss of childcare voucher eligibility. There’s no point earning between 100k & 125k, more so if you have kids in pre school.
The higher tax bracket 40 or 45% depending on where you live down to 60k and then claim child benefit.
And then the higher 40% tax bracket, 50k or £43662 depending on where you live.
You can voluntarily withdraw gross pay to remove yourself from any one of those tax positions.
This person the posts around has potentially found another sweet spot that maximises pay, pension & benefits.
There’s an argument that she’s operating within what’s allowed by the government so why wouldn’t she !?
Everyone should be looking at ways to make their money work best for them.
Edible Roadkill said:
You can t salary sacrifice yourself to earn under the national minimum wage.
But you can take yourself off any of the cliff edges, such as:
The 100k 60% tax trap (plus loss of childcare voucher eligibility. There s no point earning between 100k & 125k, more so if you have kids in pre school.
The higher tax bracket 40 or 45% depending on where you live down to 60k and then claim child benefit.
And then the higher 40% tax bracket, 50k or £43662 depending on where you live.
You can voluntarily withdraw gross pay to remove yourself from any one of those tax positions.
This person the posts around has potentially found another sweet spot that maximises pay, pension & benefits.
There s an argument that she s operating within what s allowed by the government so why wouldn t she !?
Everyone should be looking at ways to make their money work best for them.
Yeah you are right, I thought about it more then realised you could and edited my post. It's potty that the voluntary bit exists so far to get you into benefits, though the tax reduction element is of course just wise tax planning.But you can take yourself off any of the cliff edges, such as:
The 100k 60% tax trap (plus loss of childcare voucher eligibility. There s no point earning between 100k & 125k, more so if you have kids in pre school.
The higher tax bracket 40 or 45% depending on where you live down to 60k and then claim child benefit.
And then the higher 40% tax bracket, 50k or £43662 depending on where you live.
You can voluntarily withdraw gross pay to remove yourself from any one of those tax positions.
This person the posts around has potentially found another sweet spot that maximises pay, pension & benefits.
There s an argument that she s operating within what s allowed by the government so why wouldn t she !?
Everyone should be looking at ways to make their money work best for them.
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