Could this be considered insurance "fronting"?
Discussion
3 vehicle household, motorhome + 2 cars.
We've had our small car for years. When our 17 year old daughter was learning to drive, we added her to the insurance. When she passed her test, we had to change insurers (due to cost) and the new insurer added a tracker, so she is a named driver on the small car policy.
Now 18 years old and 7.5 months into the policy, she has started a degree apprenticeship. In the meantime, my wife and I took early retirement - but the small car is still our main form of transport. We added "commuting" to the policy to cover my daughter.
For the next 5 months she has a daily round trip commute of 50 miles/day, but lift sharing means she only commutes one week out of 5. She also does the usual backwards and forwards driving that teens do.
We now drive very little and any longer drives are in the bigger car. Consequently for the last 4.5 months of the 12 month policy, it's debatable who does more of the driving. But for the first 7.5 months my wife and I did most of the driving.
If she had an accident whilst commuting, I guess the insurer would investigate, and the tracker would show the journeys made.
When the policy is due for renewal, we'll reconsider the situation.
Could this pattern be considered insurance "fronting"??
We've had our small car for years. When our 17 year old daughter was learning to drive, we added her to the insurance. When she passed her test, we had to change insurers (due to cost) and the new insurer added a tracker, so she is a named driver on the small car policy.
Now 18 years old and 7.5 months into the policy, she has started a degree apprenticeship. In the meantime, my wife and I took early retirement - but the small car is still our main form of transport. We added "commuting" to the policy to cover my daughter.
For the next 5 months she has a daily round trip commute of 50 miles/day, but lift sharing means she only commutes one week out of 5. She also does the usual backwards and forwards driving that teens do.
We now drive very little and any longer drives are in the bigger car. Consequently for the last 4.5 months of the 12 month policy, it's debatable who does more of the driving. But for the first 7.5 months my wife and I did most of the driving.
If she had an accident whilst commuting, I guess the insurer would investigate, and the tracker would show the journeys made.
When the policy is due for renewal, we'll reconsider the situation.
Could this pattern be considered insurance "fronting"??
I had a similar situation with my daughters' car. Its registered in the name of daughter 1 and she is the policy holder, but younger daughter 2 drives it now most of the time. Mid-term, I rang/messaged Admiral to ask what I should best do; they made daughter 2 the main driver for a small fee. Daughter 1 is still the policy holder.
Personally I think I would call rather than renew over the internet and be entirely upfront about the situation in the conversation.
For two reasons. Firstly it means that they will have a record that you were entirely transparent about the use and secondly they can tell you what it should be. If they get it wrong then that is on them, not on you and there would be that phone call to back you up even _if_ there was an issue.
I would also make a note of the exact date/time you call so you can refer back to it if required... "As per my call xx/xx/xx at yy:yy I explicitly stated exactly how the vehicle would be used and the operative said that ????? should be the main driver, please check your call recordings".
For two reasons. Firstly it means that they will have a record that you were entirely transparent about the use and secondly they can tell you what it should be. If they get it wrong then that is on them, not on you and there would be that phone call to back you up even _if_ there was an issue.
I would also make a note of the exact date/time you call so you can refer back to it if required... "As per my call xx/xx/xx at yy:yy I explicitly stated exactly how the vehicle would be used and the operative said that ????? should be the main driver, please check your call recordings".
You're probably thinking about this more than most parents do (that's not a bad thing).
Based on your description, she sounds like the main driver of the car and therefore should be the policyholder.
If she had an accident that ended up being a total loss, or enough to warrant investigation, it's possible the insurance company might look at the circumstances, ask questions and come to the same conclusion.
What is happening with the car for the 4 out of every 5 weeks she isn't driving it? Is it just sat there?
Personally speaking, if she is realistically only going to be driving for about ~3.5 weeks total in that space of 4.5 months, then I'd probably change it come renewal, especially since there is nothing stopping you actually using (or claiming to use) it for the other 4 out of every 5 weeks it's sat idle. That's just me though, it's arguably not the correct thing to do.
Based on your description, she sounds like the main driver of the car and therefore should be the policyholder.
If she had an accident that ended up being a total loss, or enough to warrant investigation, it's possible the insurance company might look at the circumstances, ask questions and come to the same conclusion.
What is happening with the car for the 4 out of every 5 weeks she isn't driving it? Is it just sat there?
Personally speaking, if she is realistically only going to be driving for about ~3.5 weeks total in that space of 4.5 months, then I'd probably change it come renewal, especially since there is nothing stopping you actually using (or claiming to use) it for the other 4 out of every 5 weeks it's sat idle. That's just me though, it's arguably not the correct thing to do.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 11th November 14:29
Durzel said:
What is happening with the car for the 4 out of every 5 weeks she isn't driving it? Is it just sat there?
No, it's being used by us (like today for example).Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 11th November 14:29
For sure, for 4 weeks out of 5 - we're the main drivers. But mileage wise it's potentially 50:50 over the 5 weeks due to her mileage for the single week.
And for 7.5 months out of the 12 months, we were also 100% the main drivers.
BertBert said:
It's really simple. The usage has changed enough for you think there's a problem. So you need to ask the insurer what they think. If there's any chance of it being a problem you'd be nuts to risk it.
Agreed, but then I am an over-thinker. I am capable of inventing problems!Calling the insurer is good advice, but I don't trust them not to just take more money when it's not really needed.
If she becomes the policyholder I would certainly expect the premium to rise, as she will be deemed a much higher risk.
if you call them then it'll be on record, insurers record all calls, so if you're going to do that you ought to be committed to the policy being changed, and paying a prorated increase in the premium. I don't think there's any point in calling them just to ask what's what.
Strictly speaking she is the main driver of the vehicle, based on your description. I don't think distance travelled is something insurers consider, rather the abstract of people not obviously fronting.
The tracker you mentioned - is that a black box, or an plain tracker for theft, etc?
if you call them then it'll be on record, insurers record all calls, so if you're going to do that you ought to be committed to the policy being changed, and paying a prorated increase in the premium. I don't think there's any point in calling them just to ask what's what.
Strictly speaking she is the main driver of the vehicle, based on your description. I don't think distance travelled is something insurers consider, rather the abstract of people not obviously fronting.
The tracker you mentioned - is that a black box, or an plain tracker for theft, etc?
BertBert said:
It's really simple. The usage has changed enough for you think there's a problem. So you need to ask the insurer what they think. If there's any chance of it being a problem you'd be nuts to risk it.
Would concur. Call the Insurer and just give them the facts - over a 12 month period going forward if your Daughter will be driving daily and /or doing more miles than you or your wife then they may say she is now the main driver.
Of course they may not in which case nothing needs to change.
But it will be the Insurer advising this - much better to ask in advance rather than wait for a potential issue.
Which is why calling them is sensible.
You don’t need to suggest that you have been contravening the terms of your policy for that period of time as such but you are merely advising them that the details advised when you took out the policy have potentially changed and you wanted their view on it ?
No doubt you’ve been away or busy which is why you haven’t called a few days ago.
In reality this won’t really get discussed.
If they say the details warrant a change in the main driver and that by itself requires an additional premium ( pro rata to expiry ) then at that stage you can decide on your options.
You don’t need to suggest that you have been contravening the terms of your policy for that period of time as such but you are merely advising them that the details advised when you took out the policy have potentially changed and you wanted their view on it ?
No doubt you’ve been away or busy which is why you haven’t called a few days ago.
In reality this won’t really get discussed.
If they say the details warrant a change in the main driver and that by itself requires an additional premium ( pro rata to expiry ) then at that stage you can decide on your options.
MisterV said:
I think the suggestion to call the insurer is a good one. But the reality of where I am today, is that 7.5 months into the policy she's been the main driver for 5 days. Which was 1.5 weeks ago.
How can she be the 'main driver' when she has only driven 5 days out of 7.5 months? That doesn't make any sense.
Yellow Lizud said:
How can she be the 'main driver' when she has only driven 5 days out of 7.5 months?
That doesn't make any sense.
She has driven more than that, but could only have been considered the main driver for 1 week (5 days actually) out of the 7.5 months the policy has run.That doesn't make any sense.
MisterV said:
Yellow Lizud said:
How can she be the 'main driver' when she has only driven 5 days out of 7.5 months?
That doesn't make any sense.
She has driven more than that, but could only have been considered the main driver for 1 week (5 days actually) out of the 7.5 months the policy has run.That doesn't make any sense.
The insurance policy is taken out annually, nothing will alter unless there is a change of circumstances the ins co needs to know about.
It doesn't change on a daily basis depending who's driving.
Yellow Lizud said:
MisterV said:
Yellow Lizud said:
How can she be the 'main driver' when she has only driven 5 days out of 7.5 months?
That doesn't make any sense.
She has driven more than that, but could only have been considered the main driver for 1 week (5 days actually) out of the 7.5 months the policy has run.That doesn't make any sense.
The insurance policy is taken out annually, nothing will alter unless there is a change of circumstances the ins co needs to know about.
It doesn't change on a daily basis depending who's driving.
MisterV said:
We added "commuting" to the policy to cover my daughter.
At least make sure daughter is definitely covered for commuting. On wife's car, insurered with LV=, the type of use is per driver. We're both retired, so it's SD&P only. Daughters are named and covered for class 1 business use. It's just a back-up to their own cars - they've used their mum's car a handful of time in a few years.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff