Sportscar Budget Creep - when to stop?
Discussion
Like most on here, I find myself itching for a special car, saving up for it, browsing the internet looking at what I can have.
The problem is, one always starts looking at MX5s, MR2s, MG TFs, and so on.
Then a little more will get a tidy E85 BMW Z4
A little more will get a 986 Boxster S
A little more will get a 987 Cayman S
A little more will get a 996 911
A little more will get you a BMW M-car or a TVR
A little more will get you a V8 Vantage
A little more will get you an Audi R8
A little more and you can have the V10
A little more will get you a DBS
A little more will get you a Gallardo
A little more will get you a Mclaren
A little more will get you something a little better, a bit newer, a bit faster, a bit more desirable. I'm sure everyone's list is different, this is just an example.
So when do you stop saving, and buy the thing? None of these jumps are big, but the list starts at the £1000-2000 and effectively never ends, and if you've managed to save up to any level on that list, it wouldn't take very long to save up to the next level, then a few more months and you're at the next level, and so on. Eventually you'll spend years not buying anything.
Ultimately, a sportscar, even an MX5, is a luxury purchase, if you already have a boring normal car which takes you to work everyday. It just so happens that most, if not all the cars on that list have reached the bottom of their depreciation curves, although I'm sure the majority of the bottom half of that list would be cars which are inevitably destined to be recycled in a few years time, especially if you intend on using them often.
Is there a rule or a formula, for when you should stop saving, and buy the thing? Or how much of your money is sensible to park on the driveway? Or is saving money just for people with Dacias, and you should go out and dump every penny into the thing you want most?
The problem is, one always starts looking at MX5s, MR2s, MG TFs, and so on.
Then a little more will get a tidy E85 BMW Z4
A little more will get a 986 Boxster S
A little more will get a 987 Cayman S
A little more will get a 996 911
A little more will get you a BMW M-car or a TVR
A little more will get you a V8 Vantage
A little more will get you an Audi R8
A little more and you can have the V10
A little more will get you a DBS
A little more will get you a Gallardo
A little more will get you a Mclaren
A little more will get you something a little better, a bit newer, a bit faster, a bit more desirable. I'm sure everyone's list is different, this is just an example.
So when do you stop saving, and buy the thing? None of these jumps are big, but the list starts at the £1000-2000 and effectively never ends, and if you've managed to save up to any level on that list, it wouldn't take very long to save up to the next level, then a few more months and you're at the next level, and so on. Eventually you'll spend years not buying anything.
Ultimately, a sportscar, even an MX5, is a luxury purchase, if you already have a boring normal car which takes you to work everyday. It just so happens that most, if not all the cars on that list have reached the bottom of their depreciation curves, although I'm sure the majority of the bottom half of that list would be cars which are inevitably destined to be recycled in a few years time, especially if you intend on using them often.
Is there a rule or a formula, for when you should stop saving, and buy the thing? Or how much of your money is sensible to park on the driveway? Or is saving money just for people with Dacias, and you should go out and dump every penny into the thing you want most?
Edited by LotsOfLaughs on Tuesday 11th November 01:04
It is an interesting question, I think you need to start off with another question, ‘how much are you prepared to lose’ that may seem strange when it comes to a car, however, effectively you must write off the £££ you will spend on the purchase, plus a budget to run it for the amount of time you think you will have it to really enjoy it, if it retains or adds value, treat that as a bonus.
If a large part of the reason you have it is that it will hold / increase its value you will always have that in the back of you mind, and will nag at you - can’t use it, mileage is low, will effect resale - can’t use it, just had the front resprayed, don’t want stone chips - can’t use it, weather is too poor, this list goes on.
Once you stop looking at it as if it has a financial value, which is difficult, you can enjoy it for what it is, something you have a passion for, it doesn’t matter if it is worth £1 or £100,000, you have it because you want it, and every time you use it, you can enjoy it.
I know we all have variable budgets, you will know what you can truly afford, and it’s very easy to have ‘creep’ on that figure, however you need to think of the time you are losing not enjoying the fun car you want right now whilst spending time thinking about it.
If a large part of the reason you have it is that it will hold / increase its value you will always have that in the back of you mind, and will nag at you - can’t use it, mileage is low, will effect resale - can’t use it, just had the front resprayed, don’t want stone chips - can’t use it, weather is too poor, this list goes on.
Once you stop looking at it as if it has a financial value, which is difficult, you can enjoy it for what it is, something you have a passion for, it doesn’t matter if it is worth £1 or £100,000, you have it because you want it, and every time you use it, you can enjoy it.
I know we all have variable budgets, you will know what you can truly afford, and it’s very easy to have ‘creep’ on that figure, however you need to think of the time you are losing not enjoying the fun car you want right now whilst spending time thinking about it.
A good way of looking at it is to ask yourself "what amount of money can I spend without making myself feel feel nervous or worried about mortgage, bills etc". If you stretch to a car you can't really afford, that feeling will spoil they enjoyment.
If you can only drop £2500 or a car without worrying about the financial decision, go and buy an MX5, spend a few hundred tidying it up and you will be a very happy motorist!
I've got an NA1 NSX and a scruffy old 1992 Miata (Jap import), if I'm honest with myself, the Miata gives me as much joy as the NSX because I can jump in it with my daughter, go for a blast, dump it in the supermarket car park or train station without worrying about it.
In my NSX I often do this crazy thing of going for a quick drive on a Sunday morning, but not wanting to put it in Sainsburys car park so taking it home before driving the Miata to buy the newspapers & eggs.
If you can only drop £2500 or a car without worrying about the financial decision, go and buy an MX5, spend a few hundred tidying it up and you will be a very happy motorist!
I've got an NA1 NSX and a scruffy old 1992 Miata (Jap import), if I'm honest with myself, the Miata gives me as much joy as the NSX because I can jump in it with my daughter, go for a blast, dump it in the supermarket car park or train station without worrying about it.
In my NSX I often do this crazy thing of going for a quick drive on a Sunday morning, but not wanting to put it in Sainsburys car park so taking it home before driving the Miata to buy the newspapers & eggs.
Not sure I speak for everyone but here’s my verdict on the op’s post.
Like a lot of people I end up looking at cars out of my financial depth, not buying them but maintaining them. It tends to be you can overlook and stump up for a fault on the car when you first purchase it but as time passes, like anything your enthusiasm for the vehicle will wane. How much it wanes can vary but if your interest drops off and an expensive fault appears it can make you wish you bought the first 3 cars you mentioned.
Like a lot of people I end up looking at cars out of my financial depth, not buying them but maintaining them. It tends to be you can overlook and stump up for a fault on the car when you first purchase it but as time passes, like anything your enthusiasm for the vehicle will wane. How much it wanes can vary but if your interest drops off and an expensive fault appears it can make you wish you bought the first 3 cars you mentioned.
On top of budget the other question is why do you want it, what do you want it for and what roads will you drive it on.
Some people want a Lambo to pose in and drive like a granny, some people want something they can thrash on a track, some people want to win the traffic light grand prix. I wanted something I can put my foot down in, get the tail out and have some fun without risking my licence. Living in the South of England and having fast-ish cars in the past I concluded that most Sports cars did not meet this brief so I ended up with an MX-5 and purposely choose the 1.5 not the 2.0. I still dream of having a Ferrari and hope to get one in the future but after 2 years with the MX-5 I still enjoy it every time I get in it and it's cheap as chips to run, I think the reality with the Ferrari will be after 2 years I've ticked my dream car box, realised it's a pain in the ass and I'll be looking to move it on.
In terms of cost there's not a right or wrong answer short of what you can afford. You need to think what's going to make you happy, if you can afford a 996 991 but buy a 987 Cayman are you going to be happy with it or will you wish you'd spent more and got the 996 991 or that you'd spent a little less and got the 986 Boxster? The most expensive purchase doesn't automatically equate to making you the happiest.
Just trying to highlight other things to think about for the purchase as everyone is different.
Some people want a Lambo to pose in and drive like a granny, some people want something they can thrash on a track, some people want to win the traffic light grand prix. I wanted something I can put my foot down in, get the tail out and have some fun without risking my licence. Living in the South of England and having fast-ish cars in the past I concluded that most Sports cars did not meet this brief so I ended up with an MX-5 and purposely choose the 1.5 not the 2.0. I still dream of having a Ferrari and hope to get one in the future but after 2 years with the MX-5 I still enjoy it every time I get in it and it's cheap as chips to run, I think the reality with the Ferrari will be after 2 years I've ticked my dream car box, realised it's a pain in the ass and I'll be looking to move it on.
In terms of cost there's not a right or wrong answer short of what you can afford. You need to think what's going to make you happy, if you can afford a 996 991 but buy a 987 Cayman are you going to be happy with it or will you wish you'd spent more and got the 996 991 or that you'd spent a little less and got the 986 Boxster? The most expensive purchase doesn't automatically equate to making you the happiest.
Just trying to highlight other things to think about for the purchase as everyone is different.
Important consideration is how old you are and whether this is a one off 'dream car' or part of a 'journey'
As others have said if you really hanker after a particular car which will always be 'the one', it may not make sense to compromise and lose several chunks of depreciation as you work up to it when you could be saving or paying off a loan. OTOH experience gained in owning a 'lesser' car could be very valuable and give some perspective.
The other important point is to what extent do you want to own it or use it? There is a risk that if it's too impractical or special you won't drive it much.
If you're relatively young and expect your surplus income to grow, then you could gamify your process and work down your list. A nice MX5 is a very good place to start and may be the place you stay.
As others have said if you really hanker after a particular car which will always be 'the one', it may not make sense to compromise and lose several chunks of depreciation as you work up to it when you could be saving or paying off a loan. OTOH experience gained in owning a 'lesser' car could be very valuable and give some perspective.
The other important point is to what extent do you want to own it or use it? There is a risk that if it's too impractical or special you won't drive it much.
If you're relatively young and expect your surplus income to grow, then you could gamify your process and work down your list. A nice MX5 is a very good place to start and may be the place you stay.
Having recently done this I find there is a limit to comfort level.
I started looking at Evoras, and then started thinking 981 GT4, then I saw for a bit more I could think about R8 V10+, and maybe stretch into a McLaren 650S. It was there that I found my personal comfort level. A 650S would be a step over that, including running costs but also mental capacity to dealing with car drama.
You can always creep and creep and creep, but at some point you find the limit. For me it was knowing I have savings so that I could handle a catastrophic car and house bill at the same time, whilst remaining comfortable and not worrying.
I started looking at Evoras, and then started thinking 981 GT4, then I saw for a bit more I could think about R8 V10+, and maybe stretch into a McLaren 650S. It was there that I found my personal comfort level. A 650S would be a step over that, including running costs but also mental capacity to dealing with car drama.
You can always creep and creep and creep, but at some point you find the limit. For me it was knowing I have savings so that I could handle a catastrophic car and house bill at the same time, whilst remaining comfortable and not worrying.
Matt_T said:
I've got an NA1 NSX and a scruffy old 1992 Miata (Jap import), if I'm honest with myself, the Miata gives me as much joy as the NSX because I can jump in it with my daughter, go for a blast, dump it in the supermarket car park or train station without worrying about it.
In my NSX I often do this crazy thing of going for a quick drive on a Sunday morning, but not wanting to put it in Sainsburys car park so taking it home before driving the Miata to buy the newspapers & eggs.
I had the same with my Supra's, well it's slightly different as NSX's have always been valuable, but the Supra's when I had them were easy to use daily they were inexpensive. When they turned into more appreciating modern classics I ended up bailing on them to get cheaper E63/4 BMW's, I'm just more comfortable in some sort of niche car that doesn't cost the earth, I feel a sort of mild anxiety/pressure owning something mint and/or valuable, the pride/joy of owning something like that hasn't so far been enough for me.In my NSX I often do this crazy thing of going for a quick drive on a Sunday morning, but not wanting to put it in Sainsburys car park so taking it home before driving the Miata to buy the newspapers & eggs.
I just remind myself that people with McLaren F1s probably feel their lives will be complete if only they could source an F1 GTR.
There’s no limit so the sooner you stop yearning for the next faster more expensive thing and enjoy what you have the better.
Sometimes it’s better to go down the value chain rather than relentlessly up, it’s the variety that makes car ownership fun!
I’ll very likely get an MX5 or an Elise after my time with a 991 GT3
There’s no limit so the sooner you stop yearning for the next faster more expensive thing and enjoy what you have the better.
Sometimes it’s better to go down the value chain rather than relentlessly up, it’s the variety that makes car ownership fun!
I’ll very likely get an MX5 or an Elise after my time with a 991 GT3
I am not at all rich, barely got a pot to piss in really. My own criteria therefore is how much car I can get without getting into debt, and will it or wont it keep me awake at night worrying about a catastrophic failure, or high running costs.
I always at one stage fancied a Boxster S, so I bought one (2 actually but that's a long story) but found I was constantly worried about something going wrong, then the one thing you really didn't want to go wrong went wrong - the engine - which failed catastrophically. To this day, it was the worst car purchase I've ever made, and one which nearly ended this hobby for me because I simply couldn't afford at the time to fix it, and I lost all passion for the hobby.
The ironic thing was, the MX5 it was meant to replace was actually more fun to drive to start with.
Thus for me I don't think I'd look much further than an MX5 or an MR2. Maybe an Elise if I could live with it and I could justify spending £15-20k on a toy, which I can't on either score, so
I always at one stage fancied a Boxster S, so I bought one (2 actually but that's a long story) but found I was constantly worried about something going wrong, then the one thing you really didn't want to go wrong went wrong - the engine - which failed catastrophically. To this day, it was the worst car purchase I've ever made, and one which nearly ended this hobby for me because I simply couldn't afford at the time to fix it, and I lost all passion for the hobby.
The ironic thing was, the MX5 it was meant to replace was actually more fun to drive to start with.
Thus for me I don't think I'd look much further than an MX5 or an MR2. Maybe an Elise if I could live with it and I could justify spending £15-20k on a toy, which I can't on either score, so
It is a great question, and in my opinion it's all about overall cost of ownership.
I could go and buy a DB9 tomorrow (I'm not a company director by the way, but this would be my affordable dream car). Let's say for £50k. If I thought that I could maybe put 20k miles on it and sell it in five years for £35k I'd be sorely tempted. £250/month for the use of a DB9 is not big money, you can pay that to lease a Nissan Qashqui. I'd pay £50/month just to look at it on my drive (just kidding).
Yes, insurance costs, tyres cost, servicing costs, and 25mpg might be unlikely, but it's that potential £10k-£15k bill that is the killer.
So getting back to the OP's excellent question, I think you stop when the worst case cost of owning/running will not ruin you.
I could go and buy a DB9 tomorrow (I'm not a company director by the way, but this would be my affordable dream car). Let's say for £50k. If I thought that I could maybe put 20k miles on it and sell it in five years for £35k I'd be sorely tempted. £250/month for the use of a DB9 is not big money, you can pay that to lease a Nissan Qashqui. I'd pay £50/month just to look at it on my drive (just kidding).
Yes, insurance costs, tyres cost, servicing costs, and 25mpg might be unlikely, but it's that potential £10k-£15k bill that is the killer.
So getting back to the OP's excellent question, I think you stop when the worst case cost of owning/running will not ruin you.
As an alternative suggestion perhaps you could view your list as something to work through from the first to the last. I don’t mean every single step but a select few
That way you get to try many of them and you can probably swap between them with manageable incremental cost.
That is obviously subject to your time horizon/age and how secure you feel your income is/will be and any expected changes in personal circumstances.
Just a thought
As another observation I was always a bit cautious in my younger years because I wanted not to worry if I became redundant/had no work. With hindsight I could have been bolder earlier on. If I had a secure job e.g teacher/doctor I would have factored that in.
That way you get to try many of them and you can probably swap between them with manageable incremental cost.
That is obviously subject to your time horizon/age and how secure you feel your income is/will be and any expected changes in personal circumstances.
Just a thought
As another observation I was always a bit cautious in my younger years because I wanted not to worry if I became redundant/had no work. With hindsight I could have been bolder earlier on. If I had a secure job e.g teacher/doctor I would have factored that in.
Fessia fancier said:
As an alternative suggestion perhaps you could view your list as something to work through from the first to the last. I don t mean every single step but a select few
That way you get to try many of them and you can probably swap between them with manageable incremental cost.
That is obviously subject to your time horizon/age and how secure you feel your income is/will be and any expected changes in personal circumstances.
Just a thought
As another observation I was always a bit cautious in my younger years because I wanted not to worry if I became redundant/had no work. With hindsight I could have been bolder earlier on. If I had a secure job e.g teacher/doctor I would have factored that in.
The trouble is that along the way you end up buying a car that you gel with so much that you don't want to let it go and then you're stuck. It's not even a case of going from cheapest to most expensive, you can get hooked by something cheap, especially if you find an especially nice condition one.That way you get to try many of them and you can probably swap between them with manageable incremental cost.
That is obviously subject to your time horizon/age and how secure you feel your income is/will be and any expected changes in personal circumstances.
Just a thought
As another observation I was always a bit cautious in my younger years because I wanted not to worry if I became redundant/had no work. With hindsight I could have been bolder earlier on. If I had a secure job e.g teacher/doctor I would have factored that in.
I think that theres a general agreement that the answer is "don't spend more than you can loose", and then there's some variance in how comfortable one can be in loosing any particular amount of money.
I think another factor is coming into play for me now - I'm no longer looking through the lense of "what's the best thing I insure?", but more "what do I actually want?", and I'm finding that question rather tricky to answer. I do actually want to use the car, so a low mile, mint condition example isn't what I'd pick, given the choice of spending less for something which already had a few more miles on it, etc.
I don't genuinely believe that more expensive cars are at all better to drive, infact, I'd wager the opposite is likely to be true in many cases. Consider any enthusiast car, especially models with several generations; which M3, RS4, 911, Golf GTI, RS Clio, MX5, etc is best to drive? I imagine few would say it's the most expensive, especially if you exclude the very limited editions like the GT3RSs and the Trophy-Rs and so on.
The other factor in the equation is the value of the car compared to it's combined running costs. A 997.2 C4S is a much better car in almost every way than a 986 Boxster, yet asside from a set of rear tyres, and perhaps the insurance, the running costs are almost identical. The same goes for a GTI, the cheapest these days in probably the MK5, and it'll cost almost exactly the same to run as a MK7.5, but of course the older car is more likely to need repairs, but depreciation is likely to be less.
I suppose there's a big difference in the above examples though - if you buy a cheap Boxster, in 5 years time, assuming you're lucky and there's no catastrophic failure, it'll still be a cheap Boxster, or a parts car. The 997 will still be an expensive car, whereas a MK7.5 GTI will just be a cheap GTI. I guess what I'm saying is, it's worth waiting if the value of the car you want is still on it's way down, but then we all knew that already.
Figuring out what you want is still the hardest bit, as it turns out. Well, second only to paying for it, of course.
I think another factor is coming into play for me now - I'm no longer looking through the lense of "what's the best thing I insure?", but more "what do I actually want?", and I'm finding that question rather tricky to answer. I do actually want to use the car, so a low mile, mint condition example isn't what I'd pick, given the choice of spending less for something which already had a few more miles on it, etc.
I don't genuinely believe that more expensive cars are at all better to drive, infact, I'd wager the opposite is likely to be true in many cases. Consider any enthusiast car, especially models with several generations; which M3, RS4, 911, Golf GTI, RS Clio, MX5, etc is best to drive? I imagine few would say it's the most expensive, especially if you exclude the very limited editions like the GT3RSs and the Trophy-Rs and so on.
The other factor in the equation is the value of the car compared to it's combined running costs. A 997.2 C4S is a much better car in almost every way than a 986 Boxster, yet asside from a set of rear tyres, and perhaps the insurance, the running costs are almost identical. The same goes for a GTI, the cheapest these days in probably the MK5, and it'll cost almost exactly the same to run as a MK7.5, but of course the older car is more likely to need repairs, but depreciation is likely to be less.
I suppose there's a big difference in the above examples though - if you buy a cheap Boxster, in 5 years time, assuming you're lucky and there's no catastrophic failure, it'll still be a cheap Boxster, or a parts car. The 997 will still be an expensive car, whereas a MK7.5 GTI will just be a cheap GTI. I guess what I'm saying is, it's worth waiting if the value of the car you want is still on it's way down, but then we all knew that already.
Figuring out what you want is still the hardest bit, as it turns out. Well, second only to paying for it, of course.
I often think about something exotic but I would wonder how often I would use it and where would I go in it.
Borkage would worry me too.
Turning up in an Aston or Lambo in my street would have a few curtains twitching!
The top dead centre guys on you tube have just bought a Gallardo and what a thing that is, worth a watch if you have not seen it.
Borkage would worry me too.
Turning up in an Aston or Lambo in my street would have a few curtains twitching!
The top dead centre guys on you tube have just bought a Gallardo and what a thing that is, worth a watch if you have not seen it.
I always spent most of my money on cars with a I'll worry about the cost tomorrow approach, I'll figure it out. Now I will sell most of them (will probably be good for me from a personal growth perspective as I hate to "let go") as I decided I don't want to continue doing what I do right now, so can't afford the running expenses anymore once there is no salary (even with a salary "afford" was a stretch / completely insane in normal people's eyes) and I will need the money for living expenses. Sure, I could have invested that money and have a lot more right now, but where would the fun have been in that. Partly I have that comfort level because I don't have anybody who depends on my financial support, so in a worst case scenario I just have to take care of myself (and my dog) and we are both quite adaptable in terms of how much money we need ....
I don't regret buying the cars, I do very much regret not buying a Carrera GT when I could have done so c. 10 years ago. Would have had 10 years of owning my favourite car and driving it all over Europe and be able to sell it now for more than I would have paid for it at the time. At the time I thought " I'll get one in a year or two when I have a little more money and can afford it more easily" - that did not work out and I have regretted it since then as now the car will likely remain in my fantasy garage forever due to the cost to purchase.
I think the key is to be comfortable with whatever you buy, if it makes you worry about finances, then you won't enjoy it / worry too much. Everyone has a different risk appetite, so it is tough to say from the outside what works for a specific person.
I don't regret buying the cars, I do very much regret not buying a Carrera GT when I could have done so c. 10 years ago. Would have had 10 years of owning my favourite car and driving it all over Europe and be able to sell it now for more than I would have paid for it at the time. At the time I thought " I'll get one in a year or two when I have a little more money and can afford it more easily" - that did not work out and I have regretted it since then as now the car will likely remain in my fantasy garage forever due to the cost to purchase.
I think the key is to be comfortable with whatever you buy, if it makes you worry about finances, then you won't enjoy it / worry too much. Everyone has a different risk appetite, so it is tough to say from the outside what works for a specific person.
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