Trade Sale, PX to clear - What does it mean
Discussion
There's a puzzling trend that is seeping into the car-buying process as a consumer.
Some dealers use wording such as:
" Trade sale as outside of our normal stock, no warranty, no px, trade sale only"
" PX to clear - trade sale, no warranty, no finance, no credit cards"
Surely this is a way for traders to sell cars to private individuals to circumvent Consumer credit laws.
Some companies have even set up subsidiaries to "offload" some of these cars.
Has anyone had experience with this, and how likely would such cases stand up in a Civil court?
Some dealers use wording such as:
" Trade sale as outside of our normal stock, no warranty, no px, trade sale only"
" PX to clear - trade sale, no warranty, no finance, no credit cards"
Surely this is a way for traders to sell cars to private individuals to circumvent Consumer credit laws.
Some companies have even set up subsidiaries to "offload" some of these cars.
Has anyone had experience with this, and how likely would such cases stand up in a Civil court?
It means whatever the seller wants it to mean in the eyes of the seller, but if he's selling it to the public/consumer then there is no getting away from CRA2015 - it is not possible to write an advert or a contract to circumvent the law.
Of course, it is also possible that it is a genuine trade sale. Best practice in this scenario suggests the seller would adequately check it was another trader he was selling to, for example by asking for sight of a motor trade insurance policy and/or other supporting documentation.
Of course, it is also possible that it is a genuine trade sale. Best practice in this scenario suggests the seller would adequately check it was another trader he was selling to, for example by asking for sight of a motor trade insurance policy and/or other supporting documentation.
maz8062 said:
There's a puzzling trend that is seeping into the car-buying process as a consumer.
Some dealers use wording such as:
" Trade sale as outside of our normal stock, no warranty, no px, trade sale only"
" PX to clear - trade sale, no warranty, no finance, no credit cards"
Surely this is a way for traders to sell cars to private individuals to circumvent Consumer credit laws.
Some companies have even set up subsidiaries to "offload" some of these cars.
Has anyone had experience with this, and how likely would such cases stand up in a Civil court?
Do you really want to have to go to court to exercise your rights?Some dealers use wording such as:
" Trade sale as outside of our normal stock, no warranty, no px, trade sale only"
" PX to clear - trade sale, no warranty, no finance, no credit cards"
Surely this is a way for traders to sell cars to private individuals to circumvent Consumer credit laws.
Some companies have even set up subsidiaries to "offload" some of these cars.
Has anyone had experience with this, and how likely would such cases stand up in a Civil court?
Avoid. They're trying to get near retail money for something they dont want to have to stand over.
CarlosSainz100 said:
What about the adverts that say it has to be trailered away?
If they are saying "sold for spares or repairs, must be trailered away", then providing it is in that condition and they do insist on it being trailered away then you'd have no warranty.Now, if they were selling a viable car thats running and driving with no particular issues but put on it something like "as this is a no warranty trade in we are selling it as spares or repairs and it must be trailered away" but there was no other particular reason for it to be spares or repairs, then IF IF IF someone took that to court, it could be deemed that the trader was trying to avoid their responsibilities.
Generally speaking - avoid such cars / dealers unless you're absolutely happy that you have no recourse with the dealer and that you are buying a car thats priced accordingly as attempting recourse through the courts is hassle, stress, time consuming and there is no guarantee of you getting the outcome you expect.
It easy really. If its cheap to fix they would fix, if it was expensive to fix but still allowed a profit they would fix and make the profit. Any other scenario and you in for a world of pain. Even if you try to quote the law at them it will probably cost loads to apply that law and get it fixed.
shtu said:
Bottom line, it's almost always problem stock that they want near-retail money for.
Don't want to offer warranty, consumer protection, etc? Fine, send it to auction. But the greedy sods don't want to get auction money for their scrap.
This for sure. Hard to resist sometimes but put your sensible hat on and there is a reason why it’s cheap. Don't want to offer warranty, consumer protection, etc? Fine, send it to auction. But the greedy sods don't want to get auction money for their scrap.
As with everything else in car buying, the price should give a good guideline - there is no such thing as a free lunch etc. If the car is described as such but near retail price, only an idiot would proceed. If it were a massively lower price, much more like its trade price, yet being offered to the public, it is a different matter. Its probably better to buy a car like this cheap, than fluffed up and at retail.
These phrases are usually tied to bottom of the barrel cars being sold particularly cheap for what they are.
In a nut shell you either pay up for a better version of the car, run the risk and be prepared to get your hands and tools dirty or walk away.
You can debate CRA all day long but don’t expect a dealer to roll over and say it’s a fair cop, they may well run it all the way to court and in some cases even phoenix a company to avoid paying out.
I’ve bought very cheap cars and generally have been ok with some minor work but I’ve also been bitten by it once many years ago.
In a nut shell you either pay up for a better version of the car, run the risk and be prepared to get your hands and tools dirty or walk away.
You can debate CRA all day long but don’t expect a dealer to roll over and say it’s a fair cop, they may well run it all the way to court and in some cases even phoenix a company to avoid paying out.
I’ve bought very cheap cars and generally have been ok with some minor work but I’ve also been bitten by it once many years ago.
I take it as being in essence, a trade sale with next to no come back, warranty, expensive coffees or sales patter. It's one rung up from buying something off Marketplace. Pay your money, take your chances.
My last sheddy Volvo was "Part exchange to clear" via a local, well regarded independent and was listed on Autotrader. I rang them, went along, was handed the keys, walked round it once, drive it about 2 miles, came back and handed over my bank card then left with it.
Granted had it blown up 500yds from their gate, I might have been inclined to go back but anything else, I accepted it was on me. It needed a couple of drop links and the front discs were in a poor state... so I replaced them. 6 months on, zero issues and it just passed an MOT with no issues.
I know it was a part exchange to clear. It had been traded in by a guy locally against a Volvo XC70. It drove well but was a bit tired on the body, but the dealer figured somebody would have it... they probably made a grand and I got a car that was cheaper than others listed privately and was zero hassle to buy.
They got the car away to somebody who accepts "sold as seen" or "trade in to clear" means "You're on your own buddy, take it or leave it" and I'm fine with that. I don't go buying part ex to clear cars thinking I'll be back four weeks later bleating CRA stuff because the Aircon had stopped working.
If said car is a complete shed or seems a bit dear or the seller is a complete crook, use your brain and walk away. If however the car, seller and price seems like a fair deal and you're happy to proceed with no come back, crack on.
But buying cheap stuff at "trade" then going back shining about trivial stuff just ruins the game for others. It's why stuff just gets sent auction or scrap, even decent stuff with some life left as there are many out there who want champagne for lemonade money then want somebody to blame when it tastes like lemonade.
My last sheddy Volvo was "Part exchange to clear" via a local, well regarded independent and was listed on Autotrader. I rang them, went along, was handed the keys, walked round it once, drive it about 2 miles, came back and handed over my bank card then left with it.
Granted had it blown up 500yds from their gate, I might have been inclined to go back but anything else, I accepted it was on me. It needed a couple of drop links and the front discs were in a poor state... so I replaced them. 6 months on, zero issues and it just passed an MOT with no issues.
I know it was a part exchange to clear. It had been traded in by a guy locally against a Volvo XC70. It drove well but was a bit tired on the body, but the dealer figured somebody would have it... they probably made a grand and I got a car that was cheaper than others listed privately and was zero hassle to buy.
They got the car away to somebody who accepts "sold as seen" or "trade in to clear" means "You're on your own buddy, take it or leave it" and I'm fine with that. I don't go buying part ex to clear cars thinking I'll be back four weeks later bleating CRA stuff because the Aircon had stopped working.
If said car is a complete shed or seems a bit dear or the seller is a complete crook, use your brain and walk away. If however the car, seller and price seems like a fair deal and you're happy to proceed with no come back, crack on.
But buying cheap stuff at "trade" then going back shining about trivial stuff just ruins the game for others. It's why stuff just gets sent auction or scrap, even decent stuff with some life left as there are many out there who want champagne for lemonade money then want somebody to blame when it tastes like lemonade.
My parents stupidly bid on an old Scenic being sold by a Citroen/Vauxhall main dealer with "This vehicle, taken in part exchange at our Citroen Dealership, is offered here for Auction Disposal."
The listing states "Please understand that although you are buying a car from a Citroen & Vauxhall Main Dealer, by buying direct and cutting out the 'middle man' you are not only cutting out the retail profit margin of the independent used car trader/dealer, but at the same time you are also cutting out any cosmetic bodywork repairs and servicing work (if required), that that used car trader/dealer would have provided. We advise all buyers to take the precaution of having the vehicle inspected by their mechanic before putting the vehicle into use.
- Nothing in these terms and conditions is intended to restrict your statutory rights."
As predicted, the car was an absolute heap, really it should have gone straight to the scrap yard. It broke down on me on the way home, and it was obviously why it had been part exchanged. Firstly the drain holes had been blocked and flooded the car, secondly the bodywork did not have a straight panel.
They paid £620, I said they should take it straight back, but they were not keen. It has now sat on their driveway for the last 3 months.
It was a strange experience, we got the whole new car buying experience whilst buying an absolute shed. I believe the above is them saying that they know they cannot remove your statutory rights by saying "trade sale"
To be honest I am amazed they bothered selling these old heaps at their main dealership.
The listing states "Please understand that although you are buying a car from a Citroen & Vauxhall Main Dealer, by buying direct and cutting out the 'middle man' you are not only cutting out the retail profit margin of the independent used car trader/dealer, but at the same time you are also cutting out any cosmetic bodywork repairs and servicing work (if required), that that used car trader/dealer would have provided. We advise all buyers to take the precaution of having the vehicle inspected by their mechanic before putting the vehicle into use.
- Nothing in these terms and conditions is intended to restrict your statutory rights."
As predicted, the car was an absolute heap, really it should have gone straight to the scrap yard. It broke down on me on the way home, and it was obviously why it had been part exchanged. Firstly the drain holes had been blocked and flooded the car, secondly the bodywork did not have a straight panel.
They paid £620, I said they should take it straight back, but they were not keen. It has now sat on their driveway for the last 3 months.
It was a strange experience, we got the whole new car buying experience whilst buying an absolute shed. I believe the above is them saying that they know they cannot remove your statutory rights by saying "trade sale"
To be honest I am amazed they bothered selling these old heaps at their main dealership.
I think it is unethical for a trader to bypass the auctions for a px - the traditional way, to advertise the car on their website and their premises, but by using fancy language, trade language, can wipe a consumer's statutory rights clean.
Here's an example:
Here's an example:
eBay car trader said:
I took this car in part exchange.against a new car we sold.the Vauxhall drove really nice.the hybrid battery is also really good.so I was using it for few days.on Saturday I went to costco to fuel up gave it a full tank of petrol.got in to the car to start up steering wheel locked and would not start at all.i then called the AA breakdown did the the diagnostic check.please see repot on the photos.
Car will need to be collected on a recovery truck.or trailer.starting bid at £100 no reserve no warranty implied or given as seen.thanks for looking happy bidding
I suppose all of this cancellation and rejection within 30 days, 60 days, or whatever, was bound to elicit creative ways around the law as intended.Car will need to be collected on a recovery truck.or trailer.starting bid at £100 no reserve no warranty implied or given as seen.thanks for looking happy bidding
Edited by maz8062 on Tuesday 11th November 16:55
"Fancy language/trade language" doesn't bypass the law. It is possible to make the buyer aware of a fault on a vehicle when sold, and this means they can't later claim this defect as a reason to reject or insist upon a repair (Consumer Rights Act 2015 section 9 (4) (a)). I'd say that's fair enough, given we're talking about the cheap end of the market. If it weren't, then this would either completely dry up or be occupied by rogue traders or traders pretending to be private sellers.
In a way it already happens, many dealers don't touch this end of the market - even though there is a steady demand.
In a way it already happens, many dealers don't touch this end of the market - even though there is a steady demand.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
My parents stupidly bid on an old Scenic being sold by a Citroen/Vauxhall main dealer with "This vehicle, taken in part exchange at our Citroen Dealership, is offered here for Auction Disposal."
The listing states "Please understand that although you are buying a car from a Citroen & Vauxhall Main Dealer, by buying direct and cutting out the 'middle man' you are not only cutting out the retail profit margin of the independent used car trader/dealer, but at the same time you are also cutting out any cosmetic bodywork repairs and servicing work (if required), that that used car trader/dealer would have provided. We advise all buyers to take the precaution of having the vehicle inspected by their mechanic before putting the vehicle into use.
- Nothing in these terms and conditions is intended to restrict your statutory rights."
As predicted, the car was an absolute heap, really it should have gone straight to the scrap yard. It broke down on me on the way home, and it was obviously why it had been part exchanged. Firstly the drain holes had been blocked and flooded the car, secondly the bodywork did not have a straight panel.
They paid £620, I said they should take it straight back, but they were not keen. It has now sat on their driveway for the last 3 months.
It was a strange experience, we got the whole new car buying experience whilst buying an absolute shed. I believe the above is them saying that they know they cannot remove your statutory rights by saying "trade sale"
To be honest I am amazed they bothered selling these old heaps at their main dealership.
They were given the opportunity to have a look at the car before signing the paperwork? That would have been the time to walk away. However, if we the buyers opt to carry on... that's on us as far as I'm concerned. The listing states "Please understand that although you are buying a car from a Citroen & Vauxhall Main Dealer, by buying direct and cutting out the 'middle man' you are not only cutting out the retail profit margin of the independent used car trader/dealer, but at the same time you are also cutting out any cosmetic bodywork repairs and servicing work (if required), that that used car trader/dealer would have provided. We advise all buyers to take the precaution of having the vehicle inspected by their mechanic before putting the vehicle into use.
- Nothing in these terms and conditions is intended to restrict your statutory rights."
As predicted, the car was an absolute heap, really it should have gone straight to the scrap yard. It broke down on me on the way home, and it was obviously why it had been part exchanged. Firstly the drain holes had been blocked and flooded the car, secondly the bodywork did not have a straight panel.
They paid £620, I said they should take it straight back, but they were not keen. It has now sat on their driveway for the last 3 months.
It was a strange experience, we got the whole new car buying experience whilst buying an absolute shed. I believe the above is them saying that they know they cannot remove your statutory rights by saying "trade sale"
To be honest I am amazed they bothered selling these old heaps at their main dealership.
At £620 that's borderline scrap. You buy it, hope it lasts a few months then probably scrap it and get £250 back. Sub £1000 anywhere these days is likely to be a bit of a heap in need of TLC... unless you get very very lucky.
At £600... what did you honestly expect? Probably for it to get you home but again, you had the opportunity to keep looking but opted to buy in. You win some, you lose some especially at that end of the market.
I realise traders do it to try to avoid any warranty come back, but when I bought a cheap car (£2K) from a trader that wasn't a trade sale I bought it expecting no more than buying privately. Thankfully it performed fine for over 3 years!
Has anyone buying a car for that sort of money that goes wrong ever got anything from the selling trader other than avoidance and excuses?
Has anyone buying a car for that sort of money that goes wrong ever got anything from the selling trader other than avoidance and excuses?
paul_c123 said:
In a way it already happens, many dealers don't touch this end of the market - even though there is a steady demand.
The problem is there are too many idiots out there who can't think for themselves or use their brain so see the cheap price, ignore all the very obvious wording from the dealer that the car is basically f
ked and you're on your own if you buy it, go ahead and buy it where it then predictably goes pop halfway down the M6 with a seized engine and they immediately go crying back to the dealer wanting all their money back. Some may word it as the dealers being "unethical". Others may say "suck it up buttercup - serves you right for being a tard".It's because of the former that the nanny state decided to intervene and put all sales behind CRA so that the snowflakes can continue to blunder their way through life not taking any responsibility for their actions and every woe being someone else's fault.
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