85k to spend on which car ?, advice , opinions plze

[Pandalada246]

Hi everybody

I have 85k to purchase a nice car this year
Which car would you buy ?
Mainly for summer use and long distance driving


I would like to buy a Ferrari FF, McLaren 12c coupe or 12c spyder,
I have seen for sale
FF 2012, black, 5 owners, FSH, 29k miles , 80k
12c spyder , orange, 7 owners, FSH, 13.5k miles , 81k
And been offered this via my dads contact , who is in the car trade
12c coupe , red , 2 owners, FSH , 5k miles, 85k , showroom condition. Used by both owners in the summer only

Thank you all in advance for your views on the above

[MDL111]

I have not driven a 12C, but FF and 12C will be very different driving experiences. One is more of a daily driver with a very special engine and the other is more of a sports car. Do you need the additional sears and luggage capacity (or the 4WD)? If not, I would probably go for the 12C.

Edit to add: I personally prefer the cleaner lines of a coupe over a hardtop spider

[samoht]

As above, two v different cars.

I went McLaren 570GT. I really admire the FF, super cool car and that engine, but I don't need the space so thought something smaller and lighter would be more suited.

On the McLaren side, they're pretty good for touring, a bit of road noise due to the tub and high performance running gear, but not too bad, comfortable and ok luggage space. Also mid-30s mpg on the motorway, if you care. I've happily done a couple of long Euro road trips in my 570GT. I'd be looking to V Engineering to look after a 12C/650, better and more cost effective care than the main dealers.

Both cars have known issues (12C gearbox, FF PTU, to name one each) so need proper research before buying. If the orange and red 12Cs are Volcano colours that's a plus in my book

[ex-devonpaul]

samoht said:

As above, two v different cars.

I went McLaren 570GT. I really admire the FF, super cool car and that engine, but I don't need the space so thought something smaller and lighter would be more suited.

You can get a McLaren GT just about for that money. Bottom end of the market though.

[650S]

Step 1 for me would be drive that 12C your Dad knows about.

[akadk]

[Pandalada246]

650S said:

Step 1 for me would be drive that 12C your Dad knows about.

Going to view and test drive the above car this week with dad

What is the advantage and disadvantage of buying a ie

Super super Low mileage 2 owner, 12c coupe , say under 3k with McLaren FSH , average 200 summer miles a year
Factory fresh condition, asking price 90k, just recently had major service at McLaren main dealer
Over a
12c coupe with 10k miles , McLaren FSH , 3 owners , asking price 85k, at McLaren now having major service

Decided 100% going to buy a 12C coupe or 12c spyder,
FF off the list now

Thank you for your opinions and suggestions

[Doppel99]

Pandalada246 said:

650S said:

Step 1 for me would be drive that 12C your Dad knows about.

Going to view and test drive the above car this week with dad

What is the advantage and disadvantage of buying a ie

Super super Low mileage 2 owner, 12c coupe , say under 3k with McLaren FSH , average 200 summer miles a year
Factory fresh condition, asking price 90k, just recently had major service at McLaren main dealer
Over a
12c coupe with 10k miles , McLaren FSH , 3 owners , asking price 85k, at McLaren now having major service

Decided 100% going to buy a 12C coupe or 12c spyder,
FF off the list now

Thank you for your opinions and suggestions

I'd buy the 'cheaper' one after a McLaren inspection and out the £5K saving into a McLaren Warranty for the 1st year. You can go alone after than and use V Engineering or Thorney for servicing, but having the factory warranty of the first year till you really know your new car is always a good idea I feel.

Cars that have been left standing for long periods are more likely to run into problems, such as the infamous dry gearbox seal. You may even be better buying one with high mileage (like 20-30K LOL) that has been used regularly, it's MUCH better for the cars.

[12pack]

If you care about engine sounds at all, I would go with the spider. With the backlight down, it sounds better even than the FF where it counts - inside the cabin. This is especially true around town, with a nice oscillating V8 burble, as opposed to flat plane crank flatulence.

Looks are subjective, but with the top and windows down, the spider has a nice open top racer look to it, with the flying buttresses exposed.

[ajm_ph]

Pandalada246 said:

Super super Low mileage 2 owner, 12c coupe , say under 3k with McLaren FSH , average 200 summer miles a year
Factory fresh condition, asking price 90k, just recently had major service at McLaren main dealer
Over a
12c coupe with 10k miles , McLaren FSH , 3 owners , asking price 85k, at McLaren now having major service

I would actually be more wary of one with such low miles to be honest. It has been said on here many times, and it is something I have heard directly from people who really know the cars and spend their time looking after them, but these cars suffer from not being used. I would actively avoid a 12C with just 3k miles on, unless you are planning on just sticking it on display.

Unless you are buying it as some form of investment the idea that you are better off with a very low mileage supercar is largely a myth. As long as they are looked after, not abused, and well maintained by someone who knows what they are doing, then they can handle reasonably high mileage very well. You say you want to use it for long distance driving. In that case I certainly would not be paying a hefty premium for one with just 3k miles because (A) as soon as you start doing those long distance drives you'll destroy that premium and (B) the previous owner hasn't done anything like that in it, so you'll be the one finding any faults that have arisen due to lack of use.

In my humble opinion even 10k is probably a little lower than I'd be comfortable with. It's not necessarily a garage queen, but I'd be asking how much use it has had in the past few years. If you find those miles were all done in the first few years of its life and it's barely turned a wheel in the last 2 years then I'd be cautious.

Edited by ajm_ph on Monday 10th November 14:52

[650S]

Mileage for me, is not a major factor.

A. What is important for me is storage and the Owner type. A car stored outside in the elements 12 months of the year will not be a "nice" one. If north of Cheshire this increases 3 fold.

B. A car with Full history, stored in a dry heated garage, by a careful enthusiast owner will be a good example.

If A has 2,000 miles or 30,000 miles, its to all intents and purposes the same

If B has 2,000 miles or 30,000 miles its to all intents and purposes the same

If in the market, I would pay more for the low miles B example without any hesitation. As would most people I think.

[Pandalada246]

Just a quick update date ie

2 Sellers won’t allow us to have there 12c cars
PPI by a Indy specialist

So the 12c with less than 3k miles, is waiting for a PPI by a Indy specialist, hopefully booked in within next 5 days
The seller of this 12C is very confident his car has no major issues and the price reflects the cars overall condition
Plus this car has been stored in a temperature controlled garage

[Bispal]

Ive done 30k+ miles in 12C/675LT, both coupes.

I am a big convertible fan BUT the coupe 12C/650s/675LT just looks so much better as a coupe, no shut lines, see through engine covers, better profile.

don't underestimate the luggage capacity and cabin benefits of the rear shelf on the coupes, it can hold a lot of luggage or things you need inside for a long road trip. If you put both windows down you get a very similar sound to the convertible, the 675LT even had GT4RS style ducts by the rear of the windows for this that the spiders do not have, not sure if same applies to 12C.

[TISPKJ]

Pandalada246 said:

So the 12c with less than 3k miles, is waiting for a PPI by a Indy specialist

What indépendant is checking it over - there are only 2 really.

at 90k a 650, or GT, is within budget. A 40k mile 720 not far off either

[robemcdonald]

With that sort of budget I’d pick a 570GT. They have something about them. In a light colour without the black / carbon side intakes.

A quite simple unfussy design.

Something like this one..

[650S]

Bispal said:

Ive done 30k+ miles in 12C/675LT, both coupes.

I am a big convertible fan BUT the coupe 12C/650s/675LT just looks so much better as a coupe, no shut lines, see through engine covers, better profile.

don't underestimate the luggage capacity and cabin benefits of the rear shelf on the coupes, it can hold a lot of luggage or things you need inside for a long road trip. If you put both windows down you get a very similar sound to the convertible, the 675LT even had GT4RS style ducts by the rear of the windows for this that the spiders do not have, not sure if same applies to 12C.

Agree the coupe roof line point of view, the 12C has the same upper rear window / rear quarter mini vents.

[650S]

robemcdonald said:

With that sort of budget I d pick a 570GT. They have something about them. In a light colour without the black / carbon side intakes.

A quite simple unfussy design.

Something like this one..

Missing the hydraulic linked Suspension kills these for me, but a lovely looking car, I find the black side strake naff too

[650S]

Pandalada246 said:

Just a quick update date ie

2 Sellers won t allow us to have there 12c cars
PPI by a Indy specialist

So the 12c with less than 3k miles, is waiting for a PPI by a Indy specialist, hopefully booked in within next 5 days
The seller of this 12C is very confident his car has no major issues and the price reflects the cars overall condition
Plus this car has been stored in a temperature controlled garage

You have eliminated the messers, that's part of the process, hope you have a good Indi, - Exciting times.

[ajm_ph]

650S said:

Mileage for me, is not a major factor.

A. What is important for me is storage and the Owner type. A car stored outside in the elements 12 months of the year will not be a "nice" one. If north of Cheshire this increases 3 fold.

B. A car with Full history, stored in a dry heated garage, by a careful enthusiast owner will be a good example.

If A has 2,000 miles or 30,000 miles, its to all intents and purposes the same

If B has 2,000 miles or 30,000 miles its to all intents and purposes the same

If in the market, I would pay more for the low miles B example without any hesitation. As would most people I think.

I agree 100% with the sentiment that condition and history are more important than mileage. A well looked after car is more desirable than a poorly looked after one regardless of mileage. However, due to painful personal experience, I maintain that I would be very cautious of any lack of recent use indicated by extremely low mileage. It might be fine, but it also might not, and the trouble is it's almost impossible to tell.

I bought an F430 a few years ago. It was in good condition, full service history, had a recent service, and drove very well. Picked up, all good, then it broke down on the way home with a transmission failure. Turns out a seal had dried out and hardened, but it only started to leak very slightly when the car was warmed though, and even then the issue only manifested when it had been run at temperature for a long time leading to loss of pressure. Even when I took it to a specialist they couldn't reproduce the issue at first until I got them to take it out for 45 minutes. It took over an hour of taking the transmission system apart to find the problem, and that's only because they were looking for it, not a chance it would have shown up in a PPI. This was just after Covid, so the car hadn't been more than 20 miles from the owners house for a year.

Moral of the story is that some issues only become apparent when a car is driven, and I don't mean a 15 minute run to the garage to get its MOT and service once a year. It's not the low miles per se that worries me, it's that a car hasn't been driven recently.

I'm not saying the hypothetical 2000 mile car in your example will have issues, just that if it does it's possible nobody would know, including the owner, and even a PPI can only check so much. As the saying goes; once bitten twice shy, if I'm presented with a car that spends 363 days a year in the garage, heated or not, I'll pass. That is mitigated if it's from a reputable garage, in which case what I'd do is arrange a 500 mile road trip as soon as possible after collection to properly check it out.

(then there is the issue of how trustworthy mileage readouts are, but that is a whole different can of worms)

[rosino]

i would only buy used if from thorney motorsport or possibly a good rep official dealer with a strong warranty.. but even then you are on the hook for all the stuff they will wiggle out of arguing it's consumables or not covered anymore (corrosion etc)