718 4.0 GTS... new engine
Discussion
Long time lurker, read lots but tend not to comment
So story so far, bought a late 2023 Cayman 4.0 GTS from an OPC start of the spring, one owner car, 3k miles, supplying OPC agreed to service car before collection as service was due in Dec this year, despite being told it had happened when i collected car, it transpires afterwards it didn’t get serviced. Suppling OPC agrees to pay for service at my local OPC in Dec 25, so alls good, and service will be as per recommendations (2 years)
I have done about 1000 miles in car since i have owned it, no issues and as an allround car its better than the 2020 GT4 it replaced.
A couple of weeks ago, went about 1/2 mile from home, engine started making rattly noises and low oil pressure warning, didn't sound good at all.
Had car recovered to my local OPC who haven’t seen car since i have owned it, but know me as a customer of last 15 years, they arrange loan Macan same day, they then spend a few days ‘investigating the problem’ outcome has been described as metal swarf in the oil, so you will need a new engine, delivery of which is end of November earliest.
I have read the other post on the 2023 GT3 engine, what’s peoples thoughts on later down the line buying a car that had a new engine fitted good / bad / doesnt matter?
Do you think i will get a new service book? Does it need servicing in Dec as it will have a new engine? assume V5C will have to have engine number changed?
I actually like the car / spec as took a while to find, so not really wanting to reject it, i already have 2 years extended warranty, not sure what else i can do?
Having had several GT cars and a Turbo when i sold the GT4 i did look at a McLaren GT as an alternative, but the service and warranty costs are another level compared to Porsche
I like the brand and up until now i have never had any major issues with any of my cars, obviously new engine is fairly major is it just unlucky or are standards slipping at Porsche?
Welcome peoples opinions
So story so far, bought a late 2023 Cayman 4.0 GTS from an OPC start of the spring, one owner car, 3k miles, supplying OPC agreed to service car before collection as service was due in Dec this year, despite being told it had happened when i collected car, it transpires afterwards it didn’t get serviced. Suppling OPC agrees to pay for service at my local OPC in Dec 25, so alls good, and service will be as per recommendations (2 years)
I have done about 1000 miles in car since i have owned it, no issues and as an allround car its better than the 2020 GT4 it replaced.
A couple of weeks ago, went about 1/2 mile from home, engine started making rattly noises and low oil pressure warning, didn't sound good at all.
Had car recovered to my local OPC who haven’t seen car since i have owned it, but know me as a customer of last 15 years, they arrange loan Macan same day, they then spend a few days ‘investigating the problem’ outcome has been described as metal swarf in the oil, so you will need a new engine, delivery of which is end of November earliest.
I have read the other post on the 2023 GT3 engine, what’s peoples thoughts on later down the line buying a car that had a new engine fitted good / bad / doesnt matter?
Do you think i will get a new service book? Does it need servicing in Dec as it will have a new engine? assume V5C will have to have engine number changed?
I actually like the car / spec as took a while to find, so not really wanting to reject it, i already have 2 years extended warranty, not sure what else i can do?
Having had several GT cars and a Turbo when i sold the GT4 i did look at a McLaren GT as an alternative, but the service and warranty costs are another level compared to Porsche
I like the brand and up until now i have never had any major issues with any of my cars, obviously new engine is fairly major is it just unlucky or are standards slipping at Porsche?
Welcome peoples opinions
Brand new engine, fitted under warranty from Porsche is a non-issue.
Let them fit it - there will not be a negative effect for this model as it doesn’t necessarily carry the same ‘stigma’ as say the 991.1 Gen GT cars which had known issues - and are now at the end of their extended warranty coverage.
Let them fit it - there will not be a negative effect for this model as it doesn’t necessarily carry the same ‘stigma’ as say the 991.1 Gen GT cars which had known issues - and are now at the end of their extended warranty coverage.
Porsche are now well known for mechanical issues. GT3 991.1 engine failures by the bucket. 991
and 992 911 GTS turbo failures (allow £8k). GT4 engine failures. IMS bearing failures.
They are doing exactly what Mercedes did in the 2000’s. Lower costs to improve shareholder profits. It’s only going to go one way and is. Now they are losing money and having to (say it under your breath) offer large discounts to move cars.
My 650S is less of a risk to owning a Porsche. Can’t believe it’s gotten to this and is really sad to see/hear.
Sorry about your failure. Car never feels the same with another engine in it. It’s also now not a matching numbers car to me. So my OCD would flog it after works finished.
and 992 911 GTS turbo failures (allow £8k). GT4 engine failures. IMS bearing failures.
They are doing exactly what Mercedes did in the 2000’s. Lower costs to improve shareholder profits. It’s only going to go one way and is. Now they are losing money and having to (say it under your breath) offer large discounts to move cars.
My 650S is less of a risk to owning a Porsche. Can’t believe it’s gotten to this and is really sad to see/hear.
Sorry about your failure. Car never feels the same with another engine in it. It’s also now not a matching numbers car to me. So my OCD would flog it after works finished.
Familymad said:
Porsche are now well known for mechanical issues. GT3 991.1 engine failures by the bucket. 991
and 992 911 GTS turbo failures (allow £8k). 718 GT4/GTS engine failures. 9x6 , 9x7.1 IMS bearing failures plus add bore scoring issues.
My 650S is less of a risk to owning a Porsche. Can t believe it s gotten to this and is really sad to see/hear.
Sorry about your failure. Car never feels the same with another engine in it. It s also now not a matching numbers car to me. So my OCD would flog it after works finished.
Edited it for you the 981 Gt4 is based on the 997.2 3.8 and is pretty bullet proof although still doesn’t stop random failure of any engine. and 992 911 GTS turbo failures (allow £8k). 718 GT4/GTS engine failures. 9x6 , 9x7.1 IMS bearing failures plus add bore scoring issues.
My 650S is less of a risk to owning a Porsche. Can t believe it s gotten to this and is really sad to see/hear.
Sorry about your failure. Car never feels the same with another engine in it. It s also now not a matching numbers car to me. So my OCD would flog it after works finished.
I had a new engine (986 due to ims failure)fitted and the car felt a whole lot better so kept a few years and it never affected resale
You've might've already seen it, but if not here's my post from a few weeks ago re the failure of my GT4 engine:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Personally, I didn't want the car back with a new engine.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Personally, I didn't want the car back with a new engine.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
GT4P said:
Edited it for you the 981 Gt4 is based on the 997.2 3.8 and is pretty bullet proof although still doesn t stop random failure of any engine.
I had a new engine (986 due to ims failure)fitted and the car felt a whole lot better so kept a few years and it never affected resale
981 GT4 engine is from the 991.1s and yes it’s very reliable!I had a new engine (986 due to ims failure)fitted and the car felt a whole lot better so kept a few years and it never affected resale
As a previous owner of a 718 GTS 4.0, I wouldn’t touch any car with a replacement engine, let alone a Porsche.
Given the incompetence I’ve seen when it comes to servicing, I have zero trust the work will be done to the same standard as the factory (unless your local OPC is changing 10 engines a week).
Given the incompetence I’ve seen when it comes to servicing, I have zero trust the work will be done to the same standard as the factory (unless your local OPC is changing 10 engines a week).
If within the warranty period what is the problem with a new powertrain?
It s a machine - it s not like you are receiving a donor organ or like the car actually has a soul (as much as we might anthropomorphise them and treat them as living things).
Porsche sports cars in particular are engineered for easy removal of the powertrains as thats what they do in racing and the road car share some of that design philosophy.
An engine rebuild is slightly different - but a fully built replacement engine or gearbox is pretty routine - a few mounting bolts, reconnections of electrical loom coolant, oil and fuel lines and maybe transfer of some ancillaries dependant ln model and away you go. Fully stamped up and recorded. If you were not the first owner you get the chance to break-in a new powertrain yourself. The replacement unit may even have enhancements as a later revision.
Now, if you were talking about low numbers hand build PUs on a really special classic you might pause for originality but then again as long as you had papers and work was done by workshop of repute then that could also be ok. For anything else which is essentially mass production, the aversion seems a bit emotional and irrational.
The negative is the hassle and the waiting and the small possibility that the installation could have an issue.
But of course, everyone can have their own preference or opinion.
It s a machine - it s not like you are receiving a donor organ or like the car actually has a soul (as much as we might anthropomorphise them and treat them as living things).
Porsche sports cars in particular are engineered for easy removal of the powertrains as thats what they do in racing and the road car share some of that design philosophy.
An engine rebuild is slightly different - but a fully built replacement engine or gearbox is pretty routine - a few mounting bolts, reconnections of electrical loom coolant, oil and fuel lines and maybe transfer of some ancillaries dependant ln model and away you go. Fully stamped up and recorded. If you were not the first owner you get the chance to break-in a new powertrain yourself. The replacement unit may even have enhancements as a later revision.
Now, if you were talking about low numbers hand build PUs on a really special classic you might pause for originality but then again as long as you had papers and work was done by workshop of repute then that could also be ok. For anything else which is essentially mass production, the aversion seems a bit emotional and irrational.
The negative is the hassle and the waiting and the small possibility that the installation could have an issue.
But of course, everyone can have their own preference or opinion.
Edited by TDT on Friday 7th November 21:49
c3m said:
As a previous owner of a 718 GTS 4.0, I wouldn t touch any car with a replacement engine, let alone a Porsche.
Given the incompetence I ve seen when it comes to servicing, I have zero trust the work will be done to the same standard as the factory (unless your local OPC is changing 10 engines a week).
A replacement engine comes crated and complete and is a plug play item ie pretty much offer up underneath the car and bolt in so there is no reason why should not be as good as factory fit, like said previously I had new engine fitted years ago and the car felt better than new.Given the incompetence I ve seen when it comes to servicing, I have zero trust the work will be done to the same standard as the factory (unless your local OPC is changing 10 engines a week).
GT4P said:
A replacement engine comes crated and complete and is a plug play item ie pretty much offer up underneath the car and bolt in so there is no reason why should not be as good as factory fit, like said previously I had new engine fitted years ago and the car felt better than new.
Yep everything I said. I seem to remember that a few early 4.0s suffered engine failure due to the oil pump packing up and starving the engine of lubrication with the inevitable consequences. Later cars were updated with a newer version and to date I've not heard of any further issues other than this and the other recent thread referenced above. If it was me I'd be fine with an engine swap but only because mine is a 25 Years and I want to keep it until I'm no longer here.
TDT said:
If within the warranty period what is the problem with a new powertrain?
<snip>
But of course, everyone can have their own preference or opinion.
Couldn't agree more with your opinion Tyrone. It's a sub-assembly in the car, and is designed to be replaceable. Quality checks on the replacement engines will doubtless be more thorough than the ones for factory builds, as they don't get the opportunity to fire them up for themselves the first time and check for issues in-house. And of course they know they are only going to owners that have suffered engine failures, so are likely already pretty pissed off.<snip>
But of course, everyone can have their own preference or opinion.
And as you say, while building/rebuilding engines can be a bit of a black art, changing an engine isn't really rocket science. You certainly don't need to be changing 10 a week to have the basic competences needed.
As for "the car will never be the same after a new engine or rebuild". For any of the places I've worked on performance car engines, I'd have been pretty disappointed if the customer didn't come back and say the car was better than ever. They are generally being changed becuase there's an issue, or an improvement needed. In the OPs case, bought a used car, and then get the opportunity to run an engine in from brand new and know its entire life history. Who knows what happened to the original engine in its former life? No longer an issue.
Liam
LiamH66 said:
TDT said:
If within the warranty period what is the problem with a new powertrain?
<snip>
But of course, everyone can have their own preference or opinion.
Couldn't agree more with your opinion Tyrone. It's a sub-assembly in the car, and is designed to be replaceable. Quality checks on the replacement engines will doubtless be more thorough than the ones for factory builds, as they don't get the opportunity to fire them up for themselves the first time and check for issues in-house. And of course they know they are only going to owners that have suffered engine failures, so are likely already pretty pissed off.<snip>
But of course, everyone can have their own preference or opinion.
And as you say, while building/rebuilding engines can be a bit of a black art, changing an engine isn't really rocket science. You certainly don't need to be changing 10 a week to have the basic competences needed.
As for "the car will never be the same after a new engine or rebuild". For any of the places I've worked on performance car engines, I'd have been pretty disappointed if the customer didn't come back and say the car was better than ever. They are generally being changed becuase there's an issue, or an improvement needed. In the OPs case, bought a used car, and then get the opportunity to run an engine in from brand new and know its entire life history. Who knows what happened to the original engine in its former life? No longer an issue.
Liam
Thanks for the replies, I have never had a brand new Porsche before and had to run the engine in so that will be a new experience, and as some of you have said it will be a ‘new car’
Will see what the OPC recommends regarding running the engine in, assume they will want to do an oil change after it’s run in
The wait for the new engine continues…..
Will see what the OPC recommends regarding running the engine in, assume they will want to do an oil change after it’s run in
The wait for the new engine continues…..
I had a similar issue with my GTS 4.0, with Porsche fitting a new engine under warranty on around 6000 miles in April last year. All has been fine, no issues whatsoever.
You need to get the engine number updated on the V5C.
I stuck to the original service schedule; it seemed silly and unbeneficial to complicate matters by doing otherwise.
You need to get the engine number updated on the V5C.
I stuck to the original service schedule; it seemed silly and unbeneficial to complicate matters by doing otherwise.
Yellow491 said:
The problem for me would be trusting the opc service jockies ,they probably cant put a plug in properly,let alone torque up the engine mounts,and as for wheels!
Seriously? You need to find another OPC. I have always been welcomed to spend time in the workshop at the OPC I use while my car is in. I worked in the performance and race automotive trade for about 25 years, and have to say I've never found the technicians and specialist at the OPC to be less than excellent. Not in the same league as some of the best fabricators and fitters for race cars, but definitely at the top end of service technicians. Bright, diligent, experienced.Liam
Will see what the OPC recommends regarding running the engine in, assume they will want to do an oil change after it’s run in
FYI I was told by my OPCto take it easy for the first few hundred miles but then it would be fine to use as intended - however that is not what the handbook says which recommends not exceeding 4000 rpm for the first 1800 miles or so. I’m going with the owners book rather than the advice from OPC sales.
FYI I was told by my OPCto take it easy for the first few hundred miles but then it would be fine to use as intended - however that is not what the handbook says which recommends not exceeding 4000 rpm for the first 1800 miles or so. I’m going with the owners book rather than the advice from OPC sales.
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