Dementia. New partner. Divorce?
Discussion
A good friend has asked several of his close friends for advice on his situation and we don't all share the same opinions, so I suggested I would post here.
Any observations and suggestions would be most welcome.
He has an appointment booked with a solicitor in a couple of weeks, so we're basically gathering information ahead of that.
He's been married 30 years and they're both late 60s.
For the last 3 years, his wife has been bedbound in a nursing home with severe dementia. There have been strokes and a heart attack too. He visits regularly, but she doesn't respond to him at all. He will always continue to visit though, regardless. Doctors aren't able to say how long this situation will go on, but there hasn't really been any change in the 3 years.
The nursing home is mainly funded by the council, as they're below the savings threshold.They do take the full amount of her state pension.
Now for the tricky part. He's been seeing someone else for a year and they want to be together. Their kids understand that he's been lonely and are supportive of this.
They'd like to live together, but neither of them want to live together in either of their houses, so would like to sell both and start afresh somewhere new.
So, the question is, would he be able to sell his house? It's 'joint tenants' with his wife. There's no power of attorney in place.
Would divorce be an option, simply as a means to an end, from a practical point of view?
Their daughter has said she would be willing to represent her mum, if appropriate/possible, in the case of a divorce.
Any observations and suggestions would be most welcome.
He has an appointment booked with a solicitor in a couple of weeks, so we're basically gathering information ahead of that.
He's been married 30 years and they're both late 60s.
For the last 3 years, his wife has been bedbound in a nursing home with severe dementia. There have been strokes and a heart attack too. He visits regularly, but she doesn't respond to him at all. He will always continue to visit though, regardless. Doctors aren't able to say how long this situation will go on, but there hasn't really been any change in the 3 years.
The nursing home is mainly funded by the council, as they're below the savings threshold.They do take the full amount of her state pension.
Now for the tricky part. He's been seeing someone else for a year and they want to be together. Their kids understand that he's been lonely and are supportive of this.
They'd like to live together, but neither of them want to live together in either of their houses, so would like to sell both and start afresh somewhere new.
So, the question is, would he be able to sell his house? It's 'joint tenants' with his wife. There's no power of attorney in place.
Would divorce be an option, simply as a means to an end, from a practical point of view?
Their daughter has said she would be willing to represent her mum, if appropriate/possible, in the case of a divorce.
dundarach said:
Skodillac said:
Let both of the houses and rent somewhere together until such time as the house half belonging to the lady with dementia can be sold without complications.
That's what any sensible person works do. That or just carry on as they are.
A marital home is excluded from the asset assessment for care fees, so long as the partner is living there. Move out and the council will likely assess full funding.
Will need to be careful on CGT PPR relief, if she's not lived there for 3 years, and he lives somewhere else, on a future sale.
Also issues on divorce itself, split of assets, Wills, inheritance, etc.
Divorce could be complicated
Presumably she lacks capacity to litigate so the Court would have to oversee appointment of a litigation friend or if no one suitable, the official solicitor. Both of these would be obliged to seek the best financial outcome for her. In turn her assets being liquidated would be reevaluated by the Local Authority. This would happen if he moved out too. Her funds would be spent down to the limit, the residuum passing on via intestacy rules.
This would be time consuming and expensive. If she's already bed bound, it's possible nature will have taken its course by the time the court process is complete.
I'd suggest a degree of pragmatism. Anyone reasonable and empathic would sympathise with his dilemma and wish him well. To expect him wait indefinitely to begin the rest of his life at his age until someone who, to all itnents and purposes, is no longer his wife, expires would be cruel.
Presumably she lacks capacity to litigate so the Court would have to oversee appointment of a litigation friend or if no one suitable, the official solicitor. Both of these would be obliged to seek the best financial outcome for her. In turn her assets being liquidated would be reevaluated by the Local Authority. This would happen if he moved out too. Her funds would be spent down to the limit, the residuum passing on via intestacy rules.
This would be time consuming and expensive. If she's already bed bound, it's possible nature will have taken its course by the time the court process is complete.
I'd suggest a degree of pragmatism. Anyone reasonable and empathic would sympathise with his dilemma and wish him well. To expect him wait indefinitely to begin the rest of his life at his age until someone who, to all itnents and purposes, is no longer his wife, expires would be cruel.
Edited by oddman on Friday 31st October 11:33
Exiled Imp said:
dundarach said:
Skodillac said:
Let both of the houses and rent somewhere together until such time as the house half belonging to the lady with dementia can be sold without complications.
That's what any sensible person works do. That or just carry on as they are.
A marital home is excluded from the asset assessment for care fees, so long as the partner is living there. Move out and the council will likely assess full funding.
Will need to be careful on CGT PPR relief, if she's not lived there for 3 years, and he lives somewhere else, on a future sale.
Also issues on divorce itself, split of assets, Wills, inheritance, etc.
Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Much appreciated.
My own opinion was that he waits and lets nature take its course. However, her own mother was in pretty much exactly the same situation and she lived to 93!
He knows that if they divorce, her half would be consumed in care fees, as they'd want the full rate.
My own opinion was that he waits and lets nature take its course. However, her own mother was in pretty much exactly the same situation and she lived to 93!
He knows that if they divorce, her half would be consumed in care fees, as they'd want the full rate.
A very awkward situation for him. Life can throw some unexpected curve balls can t it.
It seems that to not let half the estate go straight to the local authority he can t divorce and he can t move out of the house.
If I were him I d also want to get in with my life whilst still visiting my wife as normal, and I d want my wife to do the same. In fact I d go as far as saying i wouldn t expect her to visit me at all. I d want her to move on.
Maybe he needs to reconsider if he s prepared to walk away from half the estate in order to be with the woman he wants to be with?
It seems that to not let half the estate go straight to the local authority he can t divorce and he can t move out of the house.
If I were him I d also want to get in with my life whilst still visiting my wife as normal, and I d want my wife to do the same. In fact I d go as far as saying i wouldn t expect her to visit me at all. I d want her to move on.
Maybe he needs to reconsider if he s prepared to walk away from half the estate in order to be with the woman he wants to be with?
Edited by The Gauge on Friday 31st October 12:31
Exiled Imp said:
This can get complicated.
A marital home is excluded from the asset assessment for care fees, so long as the partner is living there. Move out and the council will likely assess full funding.
Do the local authority usually put a charge on the house and take half of it when the surviving partner sells it, or dies?A marital home is excluded from the asset assessment for care fees, so long as the partner is living there. Move out and the council will likely assess full funding.
ChocolateFrog said:
Just seems like a way of ensuring the daughter gets half (or less) the inheritance as she could have because 2 old people suddenly feel a bit randy.
The status quo seems the best option by far to me.
Sorry but that's an awful attitude. The old guy's home and assets are his until such time as he dies. Nobody is entitled to think about what they might inherit until such time as an individual passes away. Expectation of inheritance is such an ugly characteristic.The status quo seems the best option by far to me.
Obviously your friend should seek proper professional advice rather than third hand on the internet.
That said, it reads as a given that everyone assumes his wife will die before he does. But it might be worth bearing in mind that if He dies before his current wife then the house would become the sole property of the wife and would be sold by the council to offset her care fees meaning even less for the children than either parent would have hoped.
Again, seek proper professional advice.
That said, it reads as a given that everyone assumes his wife will die before he does. But it might be worth bearing in mind that if He dies before his current wife then the house would become the sole property of the wife and would be sold by the council to offset her care fees meaning even less for the children than either parent would have hoped.
Again, seek proper professional advice.
ChocolateFrog said:
Just seems like a way of ensuring the daughter gets half (or less) the inheritance as she could have because 2 old people suddenly feel a bit randy.
The status quo seems the best option by far to me.
This, why on earth are people so desperate to get married when they get to this age? The status quo seems the best option by far to me.
Voldemort said:
Obviously your friend should seek proper professional advice rather than third hand on the internet.
That said, it reads as a given that everyone assumes his wife will die before he does. But it might be worth bearing in mind that if He dies before his current wife then the house would become the sole property of the wife and would be sold by the council to offset her care fees meaning even less for the children than either parent would have hoped.
Again, seek proper professional advice.
Yes, he has mentioned that he could very well be the first to die.That said, it reads as a given that everyone assumes his wife will die before he does. But it might be worth bearing in mind that if He dies before his current wife then the house would become the sole property of the wife and would be sold by the council to offset her care fees meaning even less for the children than either parent would have hoped.
Again, seek proper professional advice.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Just seems like a way of ensuring the daughter gets half (or less) the inheritance as she could have because 2 old people suddenly feel a bit randy.
The status quo seems the best option by far to me.
This, why on earth are people so desperate to get married when they get to this age? The status quo seems the best option by far to me.
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