Illegal E bikes - has there ever been a real prosecution?
Discussion
I was passed on a cycle path today by a sort of huge electrically powered ‘shopping’ bike. Step through frame, small wheels with enormous fat tyres, racks and what looked like a dual seat. The rider wasn’t pedalling even going up a significant incline and I would estimate his speed as around 30mph (I was doing around 15 according to my Garmin).
The rider wasn’t wearing a hoody - in fact he was probably not much younger than me judging by the grey hair etc.
The bike looked to be almost brand new - and certainly hadn’t been cobbled together at home.
It got me thinking as to how ridiculous this situation has become. Anyone who bought a new ICE moped, didn’t bother registering or insuring it or wearing a helmet, would when caught presumably be facing a world of pain with driving licence points or ban, insurance problems for years, etc. etc.
I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
The rider wasn’t wearing a hoody - in fact he was probably not much younger than me judging by the grey hair etc.
The bike looked to be almost brand new - and certainly hadn’t been cobbled together at home.
It got me thinking as to how ridiculous this situation has become. Anyone who bought a new ICE moped, didn’t bother registering or insuring it or wearing a helmet, would when caught presumably be facing a world of pain with driving licence points or ban, insurance problems for years, etc. etc.
I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
Foss62 said:
It got me thinking as to how ridiculous this situation has become. Anyone who bought a new ICE moped, didn t bother registering or insuring it or wearing a helmet, would when caught presumably be facing a world of pain with driving licence points or ban, insurance problems for years, etc. etc.
The miscreant would face exactly the same, they're riding an unregistered, uninsured, untaxed electric moped and are breaking the same laws as your imaginary ICE scooter rider. Paucity of enforcement is the problem, not a lack of law governing the subject. The police are acting but resources are finite.Edited by hidetheelephants on Tuesday 28th October 20:42
Foss62 said:
Anyone who bought a new ICE moped, didn t bother registering or insuring it or wearing a helmet, would when caught presumably be facing a world of pain with driving licence points or ban, insurance problems for years, etc. etc.
I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
If by "a world of pain" you mean a ticket for driving without insurance then yes the penalties are exactly the same for riding an illegal ebike are exactly the same as for riding an unregistered/uninsured ICE motorbike.I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
Probably neither would result in an actual prosecution unless the rider already had a lot of points as no insurance is a fixed penalty offence, and that's by some distance the most serious of the offenses that you list.
Edited by Aretnap on Tuesday 28th October 21:25
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
A recent discussion on an electric skateboard probably caught during police event for catching said illegal e-bikes etc...
A recent discussion on an electric skateboard probably caught during police event for catching said illegal e-bikes etc...
Walking through Inverleith park in Edinburgh last weekend I was passed by exactly the bike described by Foss. Hood and facemask, 30mph (at least) weaving between kids and dog walkers. Desperately needed a broom handle through his front wheel.
I've also watched two of these muppets, riding uphill along Leith Walk, sandwiched between a police van and car who completely ignored them. They're everywhere now and apparently exempt from any regulation.
For balance I also regularly see delivery riders on these who, although on illegal bikes, ride responsibly, on the road and not on footpaths, however there does need to be significantly increased enforcement - as in zero tolerance.
I've also watched two of these muppets, riding uphill along Leith Walk, sandwiched between a police van and car who completely ignored them. They're everywhere now and apparently exempt from any regulation.
For balance I also regularly see delivery riders on these who, although on illegal bikes, ride responsibly, on the road and not on footpaths, however there does need to be significantly increased enforcement - as in zero tolerance.
Aretnap said:
Foss62 said:
Anyone who bought a new ICE moped, didn t bother registering or insuring it or wearing a helmet, would when caught presumably be facing a world of pain with driving licence points or ban, insurance problems for years, etc. etc.
I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
If by "a world of pain" you mean a ticket for driving without insurance then yes the penalties are exactly the same for riding an illegal while are exactly the same as for riding an unregistered/uninsured ICE motorbike.I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
Probably neither would result in an actual prosecution unless the rider already had a lot of points as no insurance is a fixed penalty offence, and that's be some distance the just serious if the offense that you list.
Foss62 said:
I think you might be suffering from multiple typos, but I find it hard to believe that riding or driving a vehicle without registration, type approval, licence etc. etc. would result in nothing more serious than a single insurance charge?
Usually the police seize the bike/scooter and slap the rider with the single charge of no insurance.They don t usually bother going after no helmet, no licence, no registration, not MOT, no number plate, etc.
No insurance is usually deemed serious enough so as not to bother with all the other offences.
Foss62 said:
Aretnap said:
Foss62 said:
Anyone who bought a new ICE moped, didn t bother registering or insuring it or wearing a helmet, would when caught presumably be facing a world of pain with driving licence points or ban, insurance problems for years, etc. etc.
I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
If by "a world of pain" you mean a ticket for driving without insurance then yes the penalties are exactly the same for riding an illegal ebike are exactly the same as for riding an unregistered/uninsured ICE motorbike.I know there have been a few illegal E bike confiscations, but have the riders been charged with all the other offences?
Probably neither would result in an actual prosecution unless the rider already had a lot of points as no insurance is a fixed penalty offence, and that's by some distance the most serious of the offenses that you list.
It probably would tbh. Certainly no insurance is the only one of those offences that carries points, so if they did throw in the others as well it would just result in a slightly larger fine anyway.
We will see the same as happened with the original dangerous dog legislation.
Someone riding a 20kg E bike will hit and kill someone. Likely elderly or a child. The media will pick up the story and fan some public outrage. Politicians will get interested and there will be something of a knee jerk call to action shortly afterward.
Someone riding a 20kg E bike will hit and kill someone. Likely elderly or a child. The media will pick up the story and fan some public outrage. Politicians will get interested and there will be something of a knee jerk call to action shortly afterward.
What is the solution though?
They are already illegal. Make them more illegal?
The police already have the legal tools to deal with them, and do have crackdowns on illegal e-bikes and e-scooters every so often, and end up confiscating plenty, but they don’t have unlimited time and resources.
They are already illegal. Make them more illegal?
The police already have the legal tools to deal with them, and do have crackdowns on illegal e-bikes and e-scooters every so often, and end up confiscating plenty, but they don’t have unlimited time and resources.
It's the same for those caught riding e-scooters, technically the same laws broken but the majority are done for no insurance. There is, to some extent, a tolerance for these things if not ridden irresponsibly as the police seem to have better things to do.
As with most things there will be people who behave irresponsibly or dangerously. My closest major town is Basingstoke, ive seen mopeds being ridden around there, two up, balaclavas on, no plate ...
As with most things there will be people who behave irresponsibly or dangerously. My closest major town is Basingstoke, ive seen mopeds being ridden around there, two up, balaclavas on, no plate ...
highway said:
We will see the same as happened with the original dangerous dog legislation.
Someone riding a 20kg E bike will hit and kill someone. Likely elderly or a child. The media will pick up the story and fan some public outrage. Politicians will get interested and there will be something of a knee jerk call to action shortly afterward.
A Sur-Ron (50kg upwards) hit a 5 year old girl on a footpath recently, causing life changing injuries and didn't warrant a mention on national news, as far as I'm aware, so I think the call to action may be some way off yet.Someone riding a 20kg E bike will hit and kill someone. Likely elderly or a child. The media will pick up the story and fan some public outrage. Politicians will get interested and there will be something of a knee jerk call to action shortly afterward.
The hooded and masked culprit left the scene and disappeared. If you're masked up on one of these things then regardless of what you're doing - in between other more serious criminal activities - you're fair game to be taken out by any means possible imo.
highway said:
We will see the same as happened with the original dangerous dog legislation.
Someone riding a 20kg E bike will hit and kill someone. Likely elderly or a child. The media will pick up the story and fan some public outrage. Politicians will get interested and there will be something of a knee jerk call to action shortly afterward.
It’s already happened.Someone riding a 20kg E bike will hit and kill someone. Likely elderly or a child. The media will pick up the story and fan some public outrage. Politicians will get interested and there will be something of a knee jerk call to action shortly afterward.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dq990zz93o
The family of an 86-year-old woman who died after being hit by an electric motorbike on a pedestrian crossing have said she had "years left to give".
Gloria Stephenson, from Silksworth, Sunderland, died on the city's Burdon Road on 16 May.
Northumbria Police said it was understood she was using a zebra crossing when she was struck by a black Sur-Ron electric motorcycle. An 18-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and released on bail.
Northumbria Police said the rider initially drove away from the scene, but was arrested later on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and the bike was recovered.
He remains on bail while the investigation continues and Sgt Russell Surrey urged any witnesses to contact the force.
Nothing happens. Police don't care. The odd story that occasionally appears in the news saying that the rider was caught, banned from driving/riding for 10 years, 6 points no insurance, scooter crushed etc is just scaremongering nonsense that happened to 1 person out of the other 500,000 who ride them around every day with no licence or insurance and don't get caught. The only ones who get caught are the dumb ones who stop for the police instead of booting it and turning down the first ginnel they see. If you get caught on one of these then you deserve the insurance points and fine for being so dumb to stop.
What are the police going to do if they stop you anyway? Just give them a false name and away you go. You might lose your bike but you won't be getting any points or fine when they don't know who you are and the bike isn't linked to you or your address via a reg plate for example. A few weeks back there were 3 of them riding at speed on the footpath and road, in the dark, no lights or anything, whilst a police car was just casually going the same way. Police completely ignored them of course. Basically you do whatever crime and illegal s
t you want in this country now with absolutely no worry of arrest, so long as it isn't writing truths about Dear Leader's policies on social media. Riding E-bikes without insurance, licence, lights, helmet ? No problem sir! You crack right on and enjoy your ride and have a good night !
What are the police going to do if they stop you anyway? Just give them a false name and away you go. You might lose your bike but you won't be getting any points or fine when they don't know who you are and the bike isn't linked to you or your address via a reg plate for example. A few weeks back there were 3 of them riding at speed on the footpath and road, in the dark, no lights or anything, whilst a police car was just casually going the same way. Police completely ignored them of course. Basically you do whatever crime and illegal s
t you want in this country now with absolutely no worry of arrest, so long as it isn't writing truths about Dear Leader's policies on social media. Riding E-bikes without insurance, licence, lights, helmet ? No problem sir! You crack right on and enjoy your ride and have a good night !Where are trading standards in all this? There s several shops local to me that specialise in electric mobility. I d wager that most of what they sell is not legal to be used on the road. Or if it is there s an easy to remove restrictor. Why are these shops not being targeted when they are clearly selling items that will be used illegally.
It doesn’t help that the shops appear totally legit and almost promote illegal use.
It doesn’t help that the shops appear totally legit and almost promote illegal use.
tegwin said:
Where are trading standards in all this? There s several shops local to me that specialise in electric mobility. I d wager that most of what they sell is not legal to be used on the road. Or if it is there s an easy to remove restrictor. Why are these shops not being targeted when they are clearly selling items that will be used illegally.
It doesn t help that the shops appear totally legit and almost promote illegal use.
But they are perfectly legal to ride on private land with the landowner's permission. I'd love one to blat around our fields, just concerned I'd be more likely to wrap myself round a tree at some point.It doesn t help that the shops appear totally legit and almost promote illegal use.
Dave _ said:
It s already happened.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dq990zz93o
The family of an 86-year-old woman who died after being hit by an electric motorbike on a pedestrian crossing have said she had "years left to give".
Gloria Stephenson, from Silksworth, Sunderland, died on the city's Burdon Road on 16 May.
Northumbria Police said it was understood she was using a zebra crossing when she was struck by a black Sur-Ron electric motorcycle. An 18-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and released on bail.
Northumbria Police said the rider initially drove away from the scene, but was arrested later on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and the bike was recovered.
He remains on bail while the investigation continues and Sgt Russell Surrey urged any witnesses to contact the force.
Still on bail:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dq990zz93o
The family of an 86-year-old woman who died after being hit by an electric motorbike on a pedestrian crossing have said she had "years left to give".
Gloria Stephenson, from Silksworth, Sunderland, died on the city's Burdon Road on 16 May.
Northumbria Police said it was understood she was using a zebra crossing when she was struck by a black Sur-Ron electric motorcycle. An 18-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and released on bail.
Northumbria Police said the rider initially drove away from the scene, but was arrested later on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and the bike was recovered.
He remains on bail while the investigation continues and Sgt Russell Surrey urged any witnesses to contact the force.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff