550bhp

[UKBob]

I think Ive got my figures right (for the cerb):

AFAIK:
450 bhp will cost £3500, ported and flowed heads, + rechip/remap.

500-550 bhp++ will cost £5000, for a rechip/remap and a super charger.

A TVR with 500bhp TVR would quite a handful.

I remember reading about the twin turbo griff which could do donughts in 5th gear! Must be quite a handful to drive!

Im no expert, but I imagine when you get up to 450 bhp, you're driving quite a different machine. I can maintain traction at 100+ in third in the cerb. If the wheels were still spinning past though... :eek:

[bosscerbera]

UKBob said:

A TVR with 500bhp TVR would quite a handful.

[zippee]

Does this mean your planning a mod or 2 then Bob??
Your mad -

[UKBob]

zippee said:

Does this mean your planning a mod or 2 then Bob?? Your mad -

I'll definitely go for the a rechip/remap, no doubt about it. Probably next year. There are other benefits to be had other than a small power gain, most cerberas are pretty lumpy around town for starters.

Im no expert, but I would imagine a 400bhp cerbera really isnt in the same league as a 500bhp cerbera, and would be a pussycat to drive comparitively. Course we'd all like to go from 0-60 in 2 seconds flat but would any of us want our wheels spinning past 100mph. Im not so sure that I would

IIRC, the twin turbo griff could loose traction in 5th, in the dry, at 100mph.


Praps Bosscerbera and SXS would like to take over from here

[basil brush]

Did you ever read the feature in Evo when they were speed testing the Koenigsegg in the wet? I can imagine it would be much like that.

[V8 Archie]

If you're looking for opinions...

At those prices I'd go for the supercharger option, on the basis that it's more bang for your buck. My personal (and very limited) belief is that any amount of horsepower can be controlled. It simply requires discipline in the right foot, and you will quickly learn that if necessary.

[UKBob]

basil brush said:

Did you ever read the feature in Evo when they were speed testing the Koenigsegg in the wet? I can imagine it would be much like that.

I didnt read it - I dont need to ask but what did they say?

[UKBob]

V8 Archie said:

If you're looking for opinions... At those prices I'd go for the supercharger option, on the basis that it's more bang for your buck. My personal (and very limited) belief is that any amount of horsepower can be controlled. It simply requires discipline in the right foot, and you will quickly learn that if necessary.

I reckon the £1000 rechip/remap has to be the biggest bang for your buck. I wouldnt want a twin turbo 5 litre griff at any price. Im just not that brave

[NJW 77]

UKBob said:

V8 Archie said: If you're looking for opinions... At those prices I'd go for the supercharger option, on the basis that it's more bang for your buck. My personal (and very limited) belief is that any amount of horsepower can be controlled. It simply requires discipline in the right foot, and you will quickly learn that if necessary. I reckon the £1000 rechip/remap has to be the biggest bang for your buck. I wouldnt want a twin turbo 5 litre griff at any price. Im just not that brave

If Im right (and Im not often) that Griff spends more time at 'the garage in Crawley that shall remain nameless' than my cerb, but I dont know if it is for problems or just tweeks? All well and good having monster bhp, but if it is sitting in a garage more than your driveway, what's the point? Maybe a better option is a nice Zetec 1.8? (especially the way 'Handbrake Bob' drives )

Remember the tortoise and the hare?

[tvrolet]

UKBob said:

A TVR with 500bhp TVR would quite a handful.

I certainly hope so, otherwise I've wasted 18 months of my life....

WB

[jaker]

I read somewhere that Zcars are building a Chimaera with Nissan Skyline running gear. That should go a few horses quite nicely... shame about the noise though

[UKBob]

NJW 77 said:

Maybe a better option is a nice Zetec 1.8? (especially the way 'Handbrake Bob' drives )

Touché At least I can reverse park a cerbera (in public, without crying out to other owners for help )

Phil, why didnt you go for a supercharger plus a remap, for maybe more power at less expense?

And exactly what is the boss like to drive, compared to your other cerbeie?

[RIchardD]

jaker said:

I read somewhere that Zcars are building a Chimaera with Nissan Skyline running gear. That should go a few horses quite nicely... shame about the noise though

That would be rather nose heavy (iron block) compared to the RV8?

I only live a few miles from ZCars, must have a wander in their direction sometime - see what they are up to.

[NJW 77]

UKBob said:

NJW 77 said: Maybe a better option is a nice Zetec 1.8? (especially the way 'Handbrake Bob' drives ) Touché At least I can reverse park a cerbera (in public, without crying out to other owners for help )

Again I state, you are economical with the truth here. My shameful parking was down to some dick in a(nother) yellow cerb parking across the only two available parking spots, one of which I was heading for but said numpty got ahead of me and left me floundering high and dry

[Kurgen_]

UKBob said:

500-550 bhp++ will cost £5000, for a rechip/remap and a super charger.

Sounds like a bargain, would be getting close to Caterham R500 Evo power/weight ratio, with the 550bhp option..

UKBob said:

A TVR with 500bhp TVR would quite a handful.

As already said, traction control is in the right foot.


Rob

[UKBob]

NJW 77 said:

Again I state, you are economical with the truth here. My shameful parking was down to some dick in a(nother) yellow cerb parking across the only two available parking spots, one of which I was heading for but said numpty got ahead of me and left me floundering high and dry

There were three spaces. I took two. You threw a tantrum. Yield, or step outside sir

[basil brush]

UKBob said:

basil brush said: Did you ever read the feature in Evo when they were speed testing the Koenigsegg in the wet? I can imagine it would be much like that. I didnt read it - I dont need to ask but what did they say?

They were very nervous about the whole thing, and ended up spinning it at about 140 iirc while accelerating in a straight line.

What about nitrous? It would be a lot cheaper than the sc option and easily turned off.

[bosscerbera]

UKBob said:

Phil, why didnt you go for a supercharger plus a remap, for maybe more power at less expense? And exactly what is the boss like to drive, compared to your other cerbeie?

The idea of supercharging was where I started (I want a 600bhp Cerbera) but it was ruled out because of heat packaging.

BHP can be expressed as kW - same unit of measure as heat. The McLaren SLR makes 612bhp but that's after the blowers have used about 180bhp - so gross output of c.800bhp = 600kW. The SLR has special paint on the bonnet...

The Boss is a very well-engineered car. It's much much more than a stroked 4.5. Heads, induction, injectors, exhaust, anciliaries and a lot of time on mapping have all been modified. The engine generates over 370kW ...yet it's spent many hours in city traffic (inc. two Tunnel Runs) without problems.

The Boss beats the SLR on power to weight and torque to weight with 377kW (Boss) vs a net 456kW (SLR). Allegedly McLaren supercharged the Cerbera mule used in the development of the SLR.

You can't get enough air through the standard hole in the front/air box of a Cerbera to make big BHP. The Boss takes it in through the top so it's got a supply of clean, cool air. The hole at the front is just for the radiators. The engine is in a high state of tune that's very sensitive to fuel quality. It's optimised for 98 octane.

As any 4.5 owner knows, the 4.5 is the Daddy of TVRs. In 7 years nothing but a handful of slicks'n'wings cars ever passed me. On the road, nothing with 2 wheels or 4 got the better of my 4.5. I'd meet up with bikers after a blat and they'd be simply amazed at what they'd seen. The point is that the Boss won't 'wipe the floor' with a 4.5 anymore than a 4.5 can wipe the floor with a Griff 500.

The Boss's torque makes launch difficult. Drag racing a 4.5, the Boss would surrender the first 50 yards ...then catch and pass. The net result would be less of a difference over a Quarter than you might imagine. Similarly, around a track the Boss has the same tyres/suspension as a 4.5. It's quicker because it's mighty in the circuit-speed band of 40 - 140.

A great deal of the appeal of the Boss is the WAY it does it and the sound it makes. The induction snarl with the throttles wide open through 5,000rpm is like nothing else. The torque reaction as it mashes the rear cans towards the tarmac is awesome. I can achieve 4.5 performance on part throttle which makes car nicer in many ways. The torque also comes on from about 2250 so it feels more tractable than a 4.5.

I wouldn't piss on anyone's picnic with mad-arse BHP plans but heat and effects on everything else in the car need consideration. As a case in point, the Cobra I race has well over 700bhp from 7.0 (427ci) motor. We end up using full throttle less ... it demanded a special TKO box ... 315 tyres on the rear ... which led to 285s on the front to curb understeer ... which led to power steering ... which has all led to so many variables we aren't seeing the benefits of the power yet!! It demolishes straights but then we have to contend with arriving at corners at colossal speeds - 6 pot 14" super touring car brakes ... big outboard rear brakes ... 3-way Penskes were drafted in at 615bhp (with the 'baby' 6.6 (400ci) motor. Like the Cerbera, the Cobra chassis was designed to take about 400bhp. An object lesson methinks... Overpowered cars are highly amusing but a pain in the arse!

Peter Wheeler was right when he canned the Speed 12 because the power was unusable. It's VERY VERY difficult to contain over 600bhp in a light car - which is what a blower could achieve on a 4.5.

BTW - had my car been blown, it wouldn't have been called Boss. Boss is a moniker used - first by Ford on the Mustang - for hot 5.0 cars. Michael Hill's '73 Boss Capri won it's first race out of the box and took the championship. Boss = 5.0 / 302ci.

[dinkel]

Making the Cerb faster isn't just about chipping the V8. You've got brakes, suspension and all the bits that come to it . . . The Cerb with 350 standard horses isn't a pussy. Going to 500 is quite a gain. The rest off the car has to be modded too. For what I know the 5 litre 505 horse Cerby isn't just about slight modifications . . . it's a bit more.

Says the guy who never ever drove a cm in a TVR . . . Can't imagine it's utter bull though :bigsmile:

[bosscerbera]

Dinkel! You almost took the words out of my mouth!