so i've bought the suspension bits, what can I expect?
Discussion
from the car, that is.. I am at the moment having heavy duty adjustable tie rods, -ve camber bottom arms and rear brackets fitted to the motor to complement the HiLo's and spax dampers that are already there.
I was wondering whether any of our noble clan of mini obsessives (in both senses) could describe what having -ve camber will do to the handling?
I have asked the guy to give me 1.5 degrees -ve on the front and 1 degree -ve on the rear...any good? can I expect more/less understeer? that sort of stuff!
thanks!
I was wondering whether any of our noble clan of mini obsessives (in both senses) could describe what having -ve camber will do to the handling?
I have asked the guy to give me 1.5 degrees -ve on the front and 1 degree -ve on the rear...any good? can I expect more/less understeer? that sort of stuff!
thanks!
Make sure you have the car 4-wheel aligned and make sure the rear of the car is parallel, front end 15mins tow-out.
Don't lower it more than 20mm - remember the suspension travel needed for a road car.
With the setup described, on a road car it will handle on rails, be mindful of too much negative camber on the back, they can be a handlful when the rear end breaks away.....
Enjoy terrorising "the traffic". Everything else is just that when you own a Min....
Don't lower it more than 20mm - remember the suspension travel needed for a road car.
With the setup described, on a road car it will handle on rails, be mindful of too much negative camber on the back, they can be a handlful when the rear end breaks away.....
Enjoy terrorising "the traffic". Everything else is just that when you own a Min....
It will fell a lot more responsive and have less of the unpredictable 'snap-oversteer' you get with positive camber on the rear (as found on most later Minis).
I assume the front sub-frame has solid mounts, or else you are probably wasting your money!
At standard ride height (that's what I recommend for the road) it will be more predictable and the roadholding will increase as when cornering the outer side tyre treads will then tend to stay flatter on the road surface, thus optimising their grip.
I usually set my front toe-in to zero and the back to toe-in 1/8".
The heavy duty lower arm bushes will also help, but I normally leave the front tie-rod bushes as standard and change them regularly as the plastic ones are a bit too hard for road use really.
If the SPAX are fairly new try 3 clicks up from softest on the front and 2 on the back. With proper suspension you don't want it too hard as that stops the suspension from working properly (it's OK to have it all very hard for the track, however).
Let us know how it drives when it's all done,
Peter
I assume the front sub-frame has solid mounts, or else you are probably wasting your money!
At standard ride height (that's what I recommend for the road) it will be more predictable and the roadholding will increase as when cornering the outer side tyre treads will then tend to stay flatter on the road surface, thus optimising their grip.
I usually set my front toe-in to zero and the back to toe-in 1/8".
The heavy duty lower arm bushes will also help, but I normally leave the front tie-rod bushes as standard and change them regularly as the plastic ones are a bit too hard for road use really.
If the SPAX are fairly new try 3 clicks up from softest on the front and 2 on the back. With proper suspension you don't want it too hard as that stops the suspension from working properly (it's OK to have it all very hard for the track, however).
Let us know how it drives when it's all done,
Peter
vrooom said:
Is your mini lowered ?
it's on HiLo's but it's at the standard ride height..
..it's also running on 13X7supalites which may mean I have to have an odd setup (?)
on a side note, I heard that when a car fitted with wheels such as mine is driven very hard (certainly do!) the axle bends under hard acceleration and the outside of the tyre starts to wear...is that correct? it would explain the levels of wear I get on my fronts
Cooperman said:
It will fell a lot more responsive and have less of the unpredictable 'snap-oversteer' you get with positive camber on the rear (as found on most later Minis).
cooperman said:
I assume the front sub-frame has solid mounts, or else you are probably wasting your money!
mk3 shell, so solid mounts anyway!
cooperman said:
At standard ride height (that's what I recommend for the road) it will be more predictable and the roadholding will increase as when cornering the outer side tyre treads will then tend to stay flatter on the road surface, thus optimising their grip.
I usually set my front toe-in to zero and the back to toe-in 1/8".
The heavy duty lower arm bushes will also help, but I normally leave the front tie-rod bushes as standard and change them regularly as the plastic ones are a bit too hard for road use really.
If the SPAX are fairly new try 3 clicks up from softest on the front and 2 on the back. With proper suspension you don't want it too hard as that stops the suspension from working properly (it's OK to have it all very hard for the track, however).
Let us know how it drives when it's all done,
Peter
thanks for all your help you guys, i'm picking it up tonight then going for a blast so i'll report back in the morning
I think the problem is that you'll have the best options in terms of suspension, but the worst possible wheels for optimum handling. Personally I think 13" wheels are one of the worst things ever done to the Mini. 10" wheels are always best as that was what the car was designed for, but 12" on modern tyres are sort-of OK. 13" upset the basic geometry as they push the mean track out whilst the wheelbase stays the same. The basic steering geometry is screwed up and the size of tyre used on 13's is not good in the wet as the tyre contact area is too great.
I'm sure they look good, but in terms of actual on-the-road performance 13" wheels are definately lacking over 10's and 12's.
That's just my opinion, of course.
I'm sure they look good, but in terms of actual on-the-road performance 13" wheels are definately lacking over 10's and 12's.
That's just my opinion, of course.
I agree with you, cooperman - but they do look seriously good, and I like the levels of grip they provide, I have never beheld such a monster for taking roundabouts!
to go to 10" wheels for me would represent such a huge financial cost it doesn't bear thinking about, I worked it out once for the cooper S brakes and hoses plus either minilites or cosmics (
) and the new arches which will necessitate a respray because the colour of my car is bespoke...etc...just wouldn't work unfortunately.
the handling ie the turn in and grip is much improved on the car now, what fun I had belting about nottingham city centre! then I went down a favourite piece of country lane and it was so good! I was euphoric for hours afterwards!
to go to 10" wheels for me would represent such a huge financial cost it doesn't bear thinking about, I worked it out once for the cooper S brakes and hoses plus either minilites or cosmics (
) and the new arches which will necessitate a respray because the colour of my car is bespoke...etc...just wouldn't work unfortunately. the handling ie the turn in and grip is much improved on the car now, what fun I had belting about nottingham city centre! then I went down a favourite piece of country lane and it was so good! I was euphoric for hours afterwards!
minimax said:
to go to 10" wheels for me would represent such a huge financial cost it doesn't bear thinking about, I worked it out once for the cooper S brakes and hoses plus either minilites or cosmics (
But Tom, you know the 10"s make sense and would be wonderful!
Ace-T
PS Judas has just agreed to let me bring the Mini to BTaP
Woohoo!
Gedon Bud 
I reckon 10" wheels are absolutely necessary. Have a look on miniclassic.co.uk about fiesta callipers. That's a cheap way to get 10" wheels on and they are better than S brakes, which are pretty good.
I have mine set up similar to yours, personally, I would suggest that you get a rear anti-roll bar and shim your rear tracking so that it is pretty much just a weeny bit towing in (virtually straight ahead). My mini used to go around corners really well but the rear ARB just made it a different animal, I bought the thing to stop my wheels binding the arches, I have lowered it until the wheels are concentric with the arches, used old cones and have the things set up stiff. I kept getting wheel bind and the ARB stops that, it also means that you have a weeny bit less rear grip which you can tune with your tyre choice and rear camber. A lot of old racers used to loosen the back up by running quite a bit of +ve rear camber, some people use 032-R tyres on the front and A008's on the back to degrip the back a bit. My choice was to run about -1deg rear camber, sticky tyres so that when the car corners, I get really good grip on the rear gripping wheel. That stops it sliding around. It also means that you can run a weeny bit less -ve camber on the front as the car corners flatter, this is better for straight line speed and tyre wear. I suppose I'm running about -1.25deg on the front. Remember how much thread you have on your track rod ends!!! (Got to sort that out on mine as running a large offset on my wheels causes them to be loaded considerably.
It all depends on what you like and how you want it to go, my mini is pretty dangerous in the wet but in the dry is about the ultimate cornering machine. I like it to be really damn solid like a rally car, I can feel the texture of the road through my arse, it's uncomfortable but that's the compromise!
Good luck and if you want a full on treatise of how to set your suspension up bigstyle give me a shout.
Stu
I reckon 10" wheels are absolutely necessary. Have a look on miniclassic.co.uk about fiesta callipers. That's a cheap way to get 10" wheels on and they are better than S brakes, which are pretty good.
I have mine set up similar to yours, personally, I would suggest that you get a rear anti-roll bar and shim your rear tracking so that it is pretty much just a weeny bit towing in (virtually straight ahead). My mini used to go around corners really well but the rear ARB just made it a different animal, I bought the thing to stop my wheels binding the arches, I have lowered it until the wheels are concentric with the arches, used old cones and have the things set up stiff. I kept getting wheel bind and the ARB stops that, it also means that you have a weeny bit less rear grip which you can tune with your tyre choice and rear camber. A lot of old racers used to loosen the back up by running quite a bit of +ve rear camber, some people use 032-R tyres on the front and A008's on the back to degrip the back a bit. My choice was to run about -1deg rear camber, sticky tyres so that when the car corners, I get really good grip on the rear gripping wheel. That stops it sliding around. It also means that you can run a weeny bit less -ve camber on the front as the car corners flatter, this is better for straight line speed and tyre wear. I suppose I'm running about -1.25deg on the front. Remember how much thread you have on your track rod ends!!! (Got to sort that out on mine as running a large offset on my wheels causes them to be loaded considerably.
It all depends on what you like and how you want it to go, my mini is pretty dangerous in the wet but in the dry is about the ultimate cornering machine. I like it to be really damn solid like a rally car, I can feel the texture of the road through my arse, it's uncomfortable but that's the compromise!
Good luck and if you want a full on treatise of how to set your suspension up bigstyle give me a shout.
Stu
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