Issues over WTD and daily hours. Advice needed!
Discussion
Hi PH, I am looking for advice about what to do regarding my girlfriend's employment.
She has several part-time jobs, 2 of which are in the same industry.
Specifically with these 2 jobs, Job 1 is Tuedsay and Thursday whilst Job 2 is Monday and Wednesday.
The issues typically stem from Job 1, where she has a managerial position under the husband and wife owners. She has had a lot of issues over the years but generally keeps her head down - they are constantly getting their (and her) schedule wrong, they're not completing their own jobs, which ends up having a knock-on effect on her, etc.
The issue stems from her hours, however. She's contracted for 17 hours a week with them, so around 8.5 hours per day, and this includes her travel time in a company vehicle. She has NO fixed working hours, it's never the same start/finish time each day, and it is basically different every Tuesday/Thursday and she often won't find out until the day before. Additionally, it can change during the working day, so her 8.5-hour day might be extended on the day to 12 hours.
During a quiet month, they will complain that she is not doing her hours - even though they're the ones who assign her work, which she always does. She's made the point several times that she can't do 17 hours if she's not being given 17 hours - for reference, it's not desk work - it's work at different construction locations, and each task takes a set amount of time - the only way she can work longer if she's not being given enough work is to slow down and stretch it out - but then they complain she's taking too long when they know she can do it in an hour less etc - so she can't work without critism unless they themselves assign her enough work.
Because of this, they've started to change how they allocate her work, so she may do 5 hours at 0600, then have nothing all day (and thus not be paid) to then have an additional 3.5 hours from 1800. She hates this - understandably, as it means being up at 0500 and then not getting to bed until after 2100 despite only doing what is on paper an 8.5-hour day. As frustrating as this is, I do understand why they do this - as ultimately they're paying her for her hours and they want to get their money's worth - although I have no idea if they are allowed to effectively spread her work day out over 14.5 hours with her technically having a 7-hour unpaid period at home in between, presumably counting it as a rest period?
Either way, she cracks on with it.
Today, however, was a bit different. She had a few hours in the morning, and then planned to be at home from around 1000, waiting until her next job at 1345.
I will reiterate, this waiting time isn't paid or considered a lunch break; it's simply her working day being split into 2 sections, and because she had this free slot, she had made plans to see a friend and get her nails done - this friend also happens to be the company owner in Job 2 (who herself left Job 1 on bad terms) where she works on Mondays and Wednesdays. The owners of Job 1 do not know she has this other job specifically but do know she has 2 other jobs when she isn't working for them.
At around 1100, her boss from Job 1 called, and said she now needs to start the second part of her day early at 1200 instead of 1345 and that she would be coming to pick her up now, to which my girlfriend said she can't, she has an appointment booked around the working hours she'd been given today.
Upon collecting my girlfriend, both the husband and wife owners have been extremely rude to her and have accused her of working for Job 2 on their time and that she is not allowed to as per her contract. Her contract for Job 1 states she cannot work for a competitor, and whilst Job 2 is the same line of work, the company's license is for private work, whereas Job 1 is solely for commercial work, so I do not believe there to be a conflict of interest. Job 1 would absolutely not be bidding for the contracts that Job 2 has, and vice-versa.
Regardless, though, she was categorically not working Job 2 today and was simply meeting with a friend.
They also complained that she was not available when they called to bring her work forward to 1200 as well as complaining that she didn't answer their first phone call.
From what I understand, she is not being paid to be available all day long - she is only being paid for the combined 8.5 hours she works and thus she is not required to be available to start early? To clarify, the early start is purely down to the owners deciding they're ready sooner than planned - the work itself doesn't have a specific time requirement. I don't think it's reasonable that she have to constantly sit in the house and not do anything for the off chance they decide to start early.
The owners apparently were quite verbally abusive to her, as they can often be and have always sounded like horrible people. For example, a lot of the job requires driving to and from sites, and thus there can be traffic. If stuck in traffic, the bosses will repeatedly call out my girlfriend for lying about the traffic to the point where my girlfriend will be sending Google Maps screenshots and still be being called a liar, and even when sometimes even has to find the news reports of the traffic that caused the crash to send that to her employer before they stop harassing her. It's disgusting. This isn't being late for work, it's being delayed driving between sites as part of the daily job which she has no control over.
I have no idea if my girlfriend opted out of WTD as part of her contract but let's just assume she did - are her employers allowed to allocate her work in the way that they do (4 hours, then a 6-7 period of unpaid rest and then an additional 4.5 hours)?
Am I correct in thinking that there are no requirements for her to be effectively on call to jump like a dog whenever they see fit throughout the day when she's not being paid and they'd previously advised of that days specific working hours?
Whilst it has always been an issue, it seems to be reaching a boiling point and I am questioning whether we should start preparing for a tribunal and what route we can go down etc?
Or does all of this come under the "tough sh*t, just get on with it or leave" banner?
She has several part-time jobs, 2 of which are in the same industry.
Specifically with these 2 jobs, Job 1 is Tuedsay and Thursday whilst Job 2 is Monday and Wednesday.
The issues typically stem from Job 1, where she has a managerial position under the husband and wife owners. She has had a lot of issues over the years but generally keeps her head down - they are constantly getting their (and her) schedule wrong, they're not completing their own jobs, which ends up having a knock-on effect on her, etc.
The issue stems from her hours, however. She's contracted for 17 hours a week with them, so around 8.5 hours per day, and this includes her travel time in a company vehicle. She has NO fixed working hours, it's never the same start/finish time each day, and it is basically different every Tuesday/Thursday and she often won't find out until the day before. Additionally, it can change during the working day, so her 8.5-hour day might be extended on the day to 12 hours.
During a quiet month, they will complain that she is not doing her hours - even though they're the ones who assign her work, which she always does. She's made the point several times that she can't do 17 hours if she's not being given 17 hours - for reference, it's not desk work - it's work at different construction locations, and each task takes a set amount of time - the only way she can work longer if she's not being given enough work is to slow down and stretch it out - but then they complain she's taking too long when they know she can do it in an hour less etc - so she can't work without critism unless they themselves assign her enough work.
Because of this, they've started to change how they allocate her work, so she may do 5 hours at 0600, then have nothing all day (and thus not be paid) to then have an additional 3.5 hours from 1800. She hates this - understandably, as it means being up at 0500 and then not getting to bed until after 2100 despite only doing what is on paper an 8.5-hour day. As frustrating as this is, I do understand why they do this - as ultimately they're paying her for her hours and they want to get their money's worth - although I have no idea if they are allowed to effectively spread her work day out over 14.5 hours with her technically having a 7-hour unpaid period at home in between, presumably counting it as a rest period?
Either way, she cracks on with it.
Today, however, was a bit different. She had a few hours in the morning, and then planned to be at home from around 1000, waiting until her next job at 1345.
I will reiterate, this waiting time isn't paid or considered a lunch break; it's simply her working day being split into 2 sections, and because she had this free slot, she had made plans to see a friend and get her nails done - this friend also happens to be the company owner in Job 2 (who herself left Job 1 on bad terms) where she works on Mondays and Wednesdays. The owners of Job 1 do not know she has this other job specifically but do know she has 2 other jobs when she isn't working for them.
At around 1100, her boss from Job 1 called, and said she now needs to start the second part of her day early at 1200 instead of 1345 and that she would be coming to pick her up now, to which my girlfriend said she can't, she has an appointment booked around the working hours she'd been given today.
Upon collecting my girlfriend, both the husband and wife owners have been extremely rude to her and have accused her of working for Job 2 on their time and that she is not allowed to as per her contract. Her contract for Job 1 states she cannot work for a competitor, and whilst Job 2 is the same line of work, the company's license is for private work, whereas Job 1 is solely for commercial work, so I do not believe there to be a conflict of interest. Job 1 would absolutely not be bidding for the contracts that Job 2 has, and vice-versa.
Regardless, though, she was categorically not working Job 2 today and was simply meeting with a friend.
They also complained that she was not available when they called to bring her work forward to 1200 as well as complaining that she didn't answer their first phone call.
From what I understand, she is not being paid to be available all day long - she is only being paid for the combined 8.5 hours she works and thus she is not required to be available to start early? To clarify, the early start is purely down to the owners deciding they're ready sooner than planned - the work itself doesn't have a specific time requirement. I don't think it's reasonable that she have to constantly sit in the house and not do anything for the off chance they decide to start early.
The owners apparently were quite verbally abusive to her, as they can often be and have always sounded like horrible people. For example, a lot of the job requires driving to and from sites, and thus there can be traffic. If stuck in traffic, the bosses will repeatedly call out my girlfriend for lying about the traffic to the point where my girlfriend will be sending Google Maps screenshots and still be being called a liar, and even when sometimes even has to find the news reports of the traffic that caused the crash to send that to her employer before they stop harassing her. It's disgusting. This isn't being late for work, it's being delayed driving between sites as part of the daily job which she has no control over.
I have no idea if my girlfriend opted out of WTD as part of her contract but let's just assume she did - are her employers allowed to allocate her work in the way that they do (4 hours, then a 6-7 period of unpaid rest and then an additional 4.5 hours)?
Am I correct in thinking that there are no requirements for her to be effectively on call to jump like a dog whenever they see fit throughout the day when she's not being paid and they'd previously advised of that days specific working hours?
Whilst it has always been an issue, it seems to be reaching a boiling point and I am questioning whether we should start preparing for a tribunal and what route we can go down etc?
Or does all of this come under the "tough sh*t, just get on with it or leave" banner?
TREMAiNE said:
Hi PH, I am looking for advice about what to do regarding my girlfriend's employment.
The only advice you (she) needs is to write her Notice to Leave per the terms of her contract and give it to her manager first thing tomorrow morning. The fact that you/her are looking for ways to continue working there is simply mental.InitialDave said:
Are they like this with everyone, or just her?
Either way, I'd have long since given them the "correct your behaviour, or it will be corrected for you" warning. There's rarely a reason to take any s
t from people.
+1 - the fact she has stood for being spoken to poorly makes it hard to get out of the hole.Either way, I'd have long since given them the "correct your behaviour, or it will be corrected for you" warning. There's rarely a reason to take any s
t from people.Need to stand up for herself.
TREMAiNE said:
Am I correct in thinking that there are no requirements for her to be effectively on call to jump like a dog whenever they see fit
This depends on what her contract of employment states but generally, an 'on-call' provision in someone's employment requires the employer to pay the employee for the time they need to be available regardless of whether they are assigned to do any work or not. And the employee must be ready to work whenever that call comes regardless of anything else they may be doing.Where no provision is made, it may still be acceptable to request the employee start work but reasonable notice must be given (which can be arbitrary) but unless the working hours are provided in advance, the employer has to accept that their request may not be able to be fulfilled.
So the first step is to review the contract of employment and check whether the terms set out are legal which can be done via ACAS or Citizen Advice.
Business owners are taking the piss. There'll be only one end result, she won't be employed there, it's just when she decides to quit, or they decide to get rid.
As was said up there somewhere, it's the owners that are st bosses, not necessarily a WTD issue. Could be an employment contract issue, but tbh, she'll get very little by fighting them for it down that route.
End product will still be the same. Unless she just puts up with it of course?
As was said up there somewhere, it's the owners that are s
t bosses, not necessarily a WTD issue. Could be an employment contract issue, but tbh, she'll get very little by fighting them for it down that route.End product will still be the same. Unless she just puts up with it of course?
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