International breaks
Discussion
Skyedriver said:
Cause disruption to the club game, especially if they're on a winning streak. Maybe help with a rest though if they're injury hit.
Take up playing time when the weather is OK then games get cancelled due to snow, ice etc.
Players come back injured and can't play for their club.
When would you propose the games are played?Take up playing time when the weather is OK then games get cancelled due to snow, ice etc.
Players come back injured and can't play for their club.
Bearing in mind they have to be synched up globally
(Answer: they are pretty much immovable)
It would be nice before a tournament in the month running up to it they could have 1 to 2 weeks of regional straight knockouts (not too many rounds would be needed) which are perhaps seeded. Everyone enters the first round and by the end of the 2 weeks you have your tournament. Then a 2 week break before getting into the tournament proper.
Logistically for fans that wouldn't work but perhaps they could do the straight knock out in 1 international break during the season.
Logistically for fans that wouldn't work but perhaps they could do the straight knock out in 1 international break during the season.
Skyedriver said:
Maybe just too many competitions, friendlies etc.
We have the world cup, do we need a european equivalent?
Playing internationals in leagues? Maybe better just going to a knock out straight away?
There's been a Euros since the 1950s. World Cup since 1930s. Copa America since 1910s. It's not like they are new inventions. We have the world cup, do we need a european equivalent?
Playing internationals in leagues? Maybe better just going to a knock out straight away?
At the end of the day these tournaments have to be qualified for, and international managers need some time to get players together and work with their squad. The games have to be played somewhen, knitting them in to each countries' league and domestic cup schedules so that everything lines up globally.
fiatpower said:
It would be nice before a tournament in the month running up to it they could have 1 to 2 weeks of regional straight knockouts (not too many rounds would be needed) which are perhaps seeded. Everyone enters the first round and by the end of the 2 weeks you have your tournament. Then a 2 week break before getting into the tournament proper.
Logistically for fans that wouldn't work but perhaps they could do the straight knock out in 1 international break during the season.
According to Google there are six confederations globally who arrange qualification for the World Cup for 206 teams across 2 years of qualification games to get them down to 45 to enter the World Cup Finals. Do you really think it's possible to compress that process in to 1-2 weeks?Logistically for fans that wouldn't work but perhaps they could do the straight knock out in 1 international break during the season.
And 2 weeks of qualification, a 2 week break and then a 39 day tournament - that's nearly 10 weeks totally dedicated to internationals in one block - so countries whose seasons fall across that period would have their domestic leagues paused for nearly 3 months? Never going to happen.
Internationals are difficult teams to manage, you get splatterings of time to generate a team ethic and style vs clubs that see their players almost daily. Pushing all that time into 2 weeks before a tournament, setting aside that one freak result could mean big teams miss the tourno altogether which would be nonsense, these international managers would literally have years of no contact with players then somehow create a working team almost immediately for knock out games. It just doesn't work, at all.
Looking at it from another perspective, its a come at a great time for some teams, to be able to take their teams away for some resetting and break from matches to work on aspects of their game. Also, many players thrive on playing for their country, and come back from these games refreshed and motivated.
Looking at it from another perspective, its a come at a great time for some teams, to be able to take their teams away for some resetting and break from matches to work on aspects of their game. Also, many players thrive on playing for their country, and come back from these games refreshed and motivated.
48k said:
According to Google there are six confederations globally who arrange qualification for the World Cup for 206 teams across 2 years of qualification games to get them down to 45 to enter the World Cup Finals. Do you really think it's possible to compress that process in to 1-2 weeks?
And 2 weeks of qualification, a 2 week break and then a 39 day tournament - that's nearly 10 weeks totally dedicated to internationals in one block - so countries whose seasons fall across that period would have their domestic leagues paused for nearly 3 months? Never going to happen.
2 straight knock out games would get you from 206 teams to 52 teams so yes it is possible in 2 weeks, maybe with an additional round for the low ranking teams.And 2 weeks of qualification, a 2 week break and then a 39 day tournament - that's nearly 10 weeks totally dedicated to internationals in one block - so countries whose seasons fall across that period would have their domestic leagues paused for nearly 3 months? Never going to happen.
Using the premier league as an example there have been 5 weeks between the end of the season and the world cup starting so it would be feasible potentially with moving some leagues around especially without multiple international breaks breaking things up you'd have an extra 4 weeks to play with to make things easier. Or perhaps you put the 4 weeks of internationals at the end of the season before the world cup. For me the main blocker is the fan logistics.
It's all moot anyway as it'll never change, just interesting as a theoretical thing.
coldel said:
setting aside that one freak result could mean big teams miss the tourno altogether which would be nonsense
My take on that is so what, take the fixture seriously. It works in domestic cup competitions.Edited by fiatpower on Thursday 9th October 10:49
fiatpower said:
My take on that is so what, take the fixture seriously. It works in domestic cup competitions.
But domestically you have the local league competition, other cup competitions, in this instance this is it. Would most fans be happy watching a WC where Brazil Italy Spain and England all aren't in it because of freak results and instead you are watching Latvia vs Georgia instead?Edited by fiatpower on Thursday 9th October 10:49
And how would that work with fans, football organisations, organisers? Not knowing until a few weeks before which teams actually at the finals. How do fans suddenly change their work schedules and plans, buying plane and hotel tickets, time off from work. Organisations that have to put in place the logistics around supporting and housing their teams and staff with literally weeks worth of notice.
It just doesn't work.
fiatpower said:
48k said:
According to Google there are six confederations globally who arrange qualification for the World Cup for 206 teams across 2 years of qualification games to get them down to 45 to enter the World Cup Finals. Do you really think it's possible to compress that process in to 1-2 weeks?
And 2 weeks of qualification, a 2 week break and then a 39 day tournament - that's nearly 10 weeks totally dedicated to internationals in one block - so countries whose seasons fall across that period would have their domestic leagues paused for nearly 3 months? Never going to happen.
2 straight knock out games would get you from 206 teams to 52 teams so yes it is possible in 2 weeks, maybe with an additional round for the low ranking teams.And 2 weeks of qualification, a 2 week break and then a 39 day tournament - that's nearly 10 weeks totally dedicated to internationals in one block - so countries whose seasons fall across that period would have their domestic leagues paused for nearly 3 months? Never going to happen.
[f]Using the premier league as an example there have been 5 weeks between the end of the season and the world cup starting so it would be feasible potentially with moving some leagues around especially without multiple international breaks breaking things up you'd have an extra 4 weeks to play with to make things easier. Or perhaps you put the 4 weeks of internationals at the end of the season before the world cup. For me the main blocker is the fan logistics.[/b]
It's all moot anyway as it'll never change, just interesting as a theoretical thing.
coldel said:
setting aside that one freak result could mean big teams miss the tourno altogether which would be nonsense
My take on that is so what, take the fixture seriously. It works in domestic cup competitions.Edited by fiatpower on Thursday 9th October 10:49
I agree, the logistics of 'are they or are they not' in the competition proper cannot be done in a week before the tournament. The solution fiat put forward works if you implemented it in a football computer game but in the real world the thousands of cogs that turn in each competing nation to get their team, fans, support team, etc. takes months and months of prep. Its not just about a team turning up somewhere and playing a game of footy.
coldel said:
I agree, the logistics of 'are they or are they not' in the competition proper cannot be done in a week before the tournament. The solution fiat put forward works if you implemented it in a football computer game but in the real world the thousands of cogs that turn in each competing nation to get their team, fans, support team, etc. takes months and months of prep. Its not just about a team turning up somewhere and playing a game of footy.
I said myself the logistics wouldn't work, i'm not stupid... Maybe it would if you did it at the start of the season.It was more of a "it would be nice if" idea. Like I said nothing will change so it's all moot.
Edited by fiatpower on Thursday 9th October 15:26
fiatpower said:
I said myself the logistics wouldn't work, i'm not stupid... Maybe it would if you did it at the start of the season.
It was more of a "it would be nice if" idea. Like I said nothing will change so it's all moot.
Perhaps doing it at the start of the season is a better option! I do though think the straight knock out, even if teams take it seriously, can lead to a number of freak results, you could easily have a very average WC which disengages the audiences and fans globally.It was more of a "it would be nice if" idea. Like I said nothing will change so it's all moot.
Edited by fiatpower on Thursday 9th October 15:26
I actually disagree its a nice to have. I guess it depends on where you are coming from. As a West Ham fan ten days break for Nuno to spend time getting to know his players, work on defensive areas on the training field, talk recruitment planning with the scouts for January etc. is perfect timing for us and a very welcome break.
In a world where every team moans about an over busy schedule, is it not a bad thing for some of those players to have a break. Not every PL player is off playing international football.
Edited by coldel on Thursday 9th October 15:53
Prescient thread tastic! The head of FIFA has announced that countries should be open minded to more (northern hemisphere) winter world cups. Which for the UK for example would mean the Premier League starting earlier in the summer then pausing from mid November to the end of December.
48k said:
Prescient thread tastic! The head of FIFA has announced that countries should be open minded to more (northern hemisphere) winter world cups. Which for the UK for example would mean the Premier League starting earlier in the summer then pausing from mid November to the end of December.
The only reason being so they can be played in unplayable conditions and countries that are using the sport to promote themselves, and where FIFA can get paid a whole lot more for doing so...call me cynical.The answer to most football questions is “money” - the international football expansion (and CWC) is all about expanding FIFA sphere of influence and through that money and the regional regulators and FAs are all aligned
The current “break’ illustrates the situation quite nicely - only one competitive qualifier for England - early in the season with player welfare considerations driving decision making they would have used the additional time to work with the squad in the training field - of course no broadcast fees and ticket revenue from that so they play a pointless friendly at Wembley
We are set to see a summer WC played in hostile weather conditions - kick off times might end up after midnight for a European audience (which is a big percentage of the target audience) - weather delays for storms are likely - a huge number of games in first group stage to eliminate a small number of teams and the next WC could be even bigger - same for the CWC - sadly it’s all moving in the wrong direction and the fan and player welfare are low down in the priorities as FIFA battles with UEFA etc to make more and more money
The current “break’ illustrates the situation quite nicely - only one competitive qualifier for England - early in the season with player welfare considerations driving decision making they would have used the additional time to work with the squad in the training field - of course no broadcast fees and ticket revenue from that so they play a pointless friendly at Wembley
We are set to see a summer WC played in hostile weather conditions - kick off times might end up after midnight for a European audience (which is a big percentage of the target audience) - weather delays for storms are likely - a huge number of games in first group stage to eliminate a small number of teams and the next WC could be even bigger - same for the CWC - sadly it’s all moving in the wrong direction and the fan and player welfare are low down in the priorities as FIFA battles with UEFA etc to make more and more money
FlyingTrotter said:
The answer to most football questions is money - the international football expansion (and CWC) is all about expanding FIFA sphere of influence and through that money and the regional regulators and FAs are all aligned
The current break illustrates the situation quite nicely - only one competitive qualifier for England - early in the season with player welfare considerations driving decision making they would have used the additional time to work with the squad in the training field - of course no broadcast fees and ticket revenue from that so they play a pointless friendly at Wembley
We are set to see a summer WC played in hostile weather conditions - kick off times might end up after midnight for a European audience (which is a big percentage of the target audience) - weather delays for storms are likely - a huge number of games in first group stage to eliminate a small number of teams and the next WC could be even bigger - same for the CWC - sadly it s all moving in the wrong direction and the fan and player welfare are low down in the priorities as FIFA battles with UEFA etc to make more and more money
You could though argue as every coach says, training is one thing, playing a game is something else. They do still get their training time but then to see how it is implemented you need the friendlies. I would say we got some good learnings from the Wales game such as the growing influence in the squad of Rogers and Anderson at the expense of Bellingham.The current break illustrates the situation quite nicely - only one competitive qualifier for England - early in the season with player welfare considerations driving decision making they would have used the additional time to work with the squad in the training field - of course no broadcast fees and ticket revenue from that so they play a pointless friendly at Wembley
We are set to see a summer WC played in hostile weather conditions - kick off times might end up after midnight for a European audience (which is a big percentage of the target audience) - weather delays for storms are likely - a huge number of games in first group stage to eliminate a small number of teams and the next WC could be even bigger - same for the CWC - sadly it s all moving in the wrong direction and the fan and player welfare are low down in the priorities as FIFA battles with UEFA etc to make more and more money
But I do agree, money is always a driving factor, hence why FIFA took all those bribes for years putting the WC in countries that promised the big bucks and the CWC is nothing more than an exhibition event, none of those top clubs would have gone to it if they were not on big money to do so.
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