New bike day did not go well
Discussion
Picked up my new to me 821 Hypermotard on Thursday, what an amazing machine. Decided to take advantage of the dry weather in the evening and go out for a bimble - nothing daft, just get used to the bike and enjoy it a bit.
Was in a 30 zone, approaching a 2-road crossroads type mini roundabout at about 18-20mph (right and straight were clear). I'd wanted to turn left on approach then decided against it and instead to go straight. I hit cancel on the indicator but obviously not hard enough, a car waiting at the left moved onto the roundabout as I went straight and hit me broadside on the left. I'm a bit injured, stiff / sprained ankle, but otherwise ok. Same cannot be said for the bike - exhaust subframe snapped, and quite a bit of further damage.
Would anyone be able to advise on my liability for this accident?
Ps huge respect to the coppers who as luck would have it were about 3 cars back in the queue, they sorted traffic, helped me out massively when my phone died, would have been stranded without them!
Was in a 30 zone, approaching a 2-road crossroads type mini roundabout at about 18-20mph (right and straight were clear). I'd wanted to turn left on approach then decided against it and instead to go straight. I hit cancel on the indicator but obviously not hard enough, a car waiting at the left moved onto the roundabout as I went straight and hit me broadside on the left. I'm a bit injured, stiff / sprained ankle, but otherwise ok. Same cannot be said for the bike - exhaust subframe snapped, and quite a bit of further damage.
Would anyone be able to advise on my liability for this accident?
Ps huge respect to the coppers who as luck would have it were about 3 cars back in the queue, they sorted traffic, helped me out massively when my phone died, would have been stranded without them!
Firstly, I'm really sorry to hear about the prang. It's probably even worse when combined with new bike day 
I don't know who is legally responsible, but you were indicating left and went straight on so you have to assume a large part of the blame, even if the car should have waited for you to make the turn before venturing onto the roundabout.

I don't know who is legally responsible, but you were indicating left and went straight on so you have to assume a large part of the blame, even if the car should have waited for you to make the turn before venturing onto the roundabout.
Comiserations OP, that sucks. Glad you’re ok.
The advanced beards would tell you that all the indicator being on tells you is that the bulb is working. Ha ha ha, bet they love rolling that old cracker out when they can.
Unsure whether that reflects the laws of the road. And if you wait for every indicating vehicle to turn off as per the signal the traffic network would be at a standstill.
As someone said, if you were driving and it happened to you would you feel aggrieved to be found at fault?
Cos if so, and if you have a good chunk of the blame anyway, I’m not sure the right thing is to argue the split of responsibility so you both get a premium loading, just hold your hands up and accept fault.
On the other hand if you think the driver had seen your indicator, decided to go, didn’t look your way again and went when they had ample time to check and reconsider and not go onto the roundabout, fight it. Because yes the indicator is on but that doesn’t mean the driver realises it is, and you should double check (even if you’re not an Advanced beard).
The advanced beards would tell you that all the indicator being on tells you is that the bulb is working. Ha ha ha, bet they love rolling that old cracker out when they can.
Unsure whether that reflects the laws of the road. And if you wait for every indicating vehicle to turn off as per the signal the traffic network would be at a standstill.
As someone said, if you were driving and it happened to you would you feel aggrieved to be found at fault?
Cos if so, and if you have a good chunk of the blame anyway, I’m not sure the right thing is to argue the split of responsibility so you both get a premium loading, just hold your hands up and accept fault.
On the other hand if you think the driver had seen your indicator, decided to go, didn’t look your way again and went when they had ample time to check and reconsider and not go onto the roundabout, fight it. Because yes the indicator is on but that doesn’t mean the driver realises it is, and you should double check (even if you’re not an Advanced beard).
smifffymoto said:
How you indicated is immaterial,you were already on the roundabout.
Traffic entering a roundabout gives way to traffic on the right already on the roundabout.
That s the scenario if I understand the OP.
Agreed. I’d go even further to say you have a duty of care not to enter a roundabout that’s not clear for you to do so, whatever the priority situation.Traffic entering a roundabout gives way to traffic on the right already on the roundabout.
That s the scenario if I understand the OP.
FNG said:
Comiserations OP, that sucks. Glad you re ok.
The advanced beards would tell you that all the indicator being on tells you is that the bulb is working. Ha ha ha, bet they love rolling that old cracker out when they can.
Unsure whether that reflects the laws of the road. And if you wait for every indicating vehicle to turn off as per the signal the traffic network would be at a standstill.
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.htmlThe advanced beards would tell you that all the indicator being on tells you is that the bulb is working. Ha ha ha, bet they love rolling that old cracker out when they can.
Unsure whether that reflects the laws of the road. And if you wait for every indicating vehicle to turn off as per the signal the traffic network would be at a standstill.
Rule 170.
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html
Car should have waited.
Arrivalist said:
smifffymoto said:
How you indicated is immaterial,you were already on the roundabout.
Traffic entering a roundabout gives way to traffic on the right already on the roundabout.
That s the scenario if I understand the OP.
Agreed. I d go even further to say you have a duty of care not to enter a roundabout that s not clear for you to do so, whatever the priority situation.Traffic entering a roundabout gives way to traffic on the right already on the roundabout.
That s the scenario if I understand the OP.
You have either have to be _certain_ that someone is exiting or ensure that even if they don't you won't crash into them (ideally both).
I'm sure we've *all* been there at some point where we've not cancelled our indicators or not flicked them quite enough to latch on but they're still nothing more than an "indication" nothing more. Everyone still has the responsibility *not* to drive into you.
The question I have is if they even saw you at all, the A pillar can easily catch you out, one of two accidents I've had in a car was I hit someone in a similar'ish situation on a roundabout. Just angle of approach meant she was entirely hidden the entire way[1] as I approached.
[1] Although I did entirely accept blame here she said "I saw you and didn't think you were going to stop" which utterly floored me. Why on earth wouldn't you slam on the brakes and/or use the horn if that's what you thought! Still my fault but she could have avoided it and chose not to!
Thanks all for your input. Genuinely interested to read the replies. I don't think I've got a particular opinion or agenda, I'm willing to accept fault if that's correct. As to whether I'd feel aggrieved if the roles were reversed, I don't know - I've always been told in both car and motorcycle training that you cannot accept what another driver tells you before you pull out from a junction. But I do accept that having my blinker on was not good.
Roundabouts are generally put in place to keep traffic flowing. In the past there would have been a crossroads junction there. If it was a crossroad and you were approaching with a left indicator on, would he have pulled out, I suspect not. He would have waited until you slowed down for confirmation that you were turning left.
He will be at fault and as others have said pretty pissed but ultimately he pulled out on you
He will be at fault and as others have said pretty pissed but ultimately he pulled out on you
Sorry about your mishap on new bike day.
It's good to read the police were there and helpful. The responses to the thread are useful.
I'm one of those that can forget to cancel indicators. A couple of months ago a driver of the Jazz ahead was flicking their indicators on alternately to indicate to me that I'd not cancelled my indicators.
A few years ago I left my left indicator on having turned left into the end of the road I live in. The road goes uphill and bends around to the right, has parked vehicles both sides. There's a side turning on the left that's uphill if entering. It was a dark evening and there was a car waiting to turn right out of the side turning on the left. The woman driver was going to emerge from the junction as I was indicating left but the man in the passenger seat of the car stopped her realising I wasn't turning into the junction.
The thread usefully reminds me there's a busy roundabout near my work and I may place too much reliance on whether people are indicating or not when I may be in a rush to get to work.
It's good to read the police were there and helpful. The responses to the thread are useful.
I'm one of those that can forget to cancel indicators. A couple of months ago a driver of the Jazz ahead was flicking their indicators on alternately to indicate to me that I'd not cancelled my indicators.
A few years ago I left my left indicator on having turned left into the end of the road I live in. The road goes uphill and bends around to the right, has parked vehicles both sides. There's a side turning on the left that's uphill if entering. It was a dark evening and there was a car waiting to turn right out of the side turning on the left. The woman driver was going to emerge from the junction as I was indicating left but the man in the passenger seat of the car stopped her realising I wasn't turning into the junction.
The thread usefully reminds me there's a busy roundabout near my work and I may place too much reliance on whether people are indicating or not when I may be in a rush to get to work.
Indication is a big clue as to the intentions of the driver, but so is road positioning and speed etc, and it’s foolish to pull out based solely on seeing the bulb.
The car driver is at fault for not ensuring the road is clear, but there’s a fair chance insurance companies will split liability.
The car driver is at fault for not ensuring the road is clear, but there’s a fair chance insurance companies will split liability.
the-norseman said:
Car was at fault but the indicator didn't help the situation, either of you got footage?
I reckon insurance will go 50/50.
I expect 50/50 too. I actually think that's the fairest way to do it .I reckon insurance will go 50/50.
You indicate and don't follow your indication, the car driver moves out when the path is not clear as he reads your indication.
Mistake for both parties I would say .
I live right by a junction that is offset and the majority of drivers go on the indicator of the approaching vehicle. I don't and it infuriates the car behind me often. There is a minor collision there very often.
As a challenge a year or so ago, I did the online theory test & got this point exactly wrong. I thought the signal made it OK to turn out into the major road (the Q was when you approach a "T" junction from the minir road). The Highway Code advises I should have waited until the approaching car commenced the turn into the minor road.
So I reckon the cars at blame here. But it's a bit difficult to argue "he shouldn't have been there, so I just drove on". So if I was the insurance company, I'd argue 50:50.
Fortunately no injuries. (According to David Speigelhalter ("The Art of Uncertainty", p.382) 7,500 miles on a motor bike is 40X as likely to result in a death than doing the same distance in a car.) But very downing to have a crash when just out on the road with a new machine. So easily done when trying to get to learn all it's little quirks & capabilities.
So I reckon the cars at blame here. But it's a bit difficult to argue "he shouldn't have been there, so I just drove on". So if I was the insurance company, I'd argue 50:50.
Fortunately no injuries. (According to David Speigelhalter ("The Art of Uncertainty", p.382) 7,500 miles on a motor bike is 40X as likely to result in a death than doing the same distance in a car.) But very downing to have a crash when just out on the road with a new machine. So easily done when trying to get to learn all it's little quirks & capabilities.
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