Newbie questions
Discussion
I thought that it would be better on a different thread so here goes:
I have a couple of questions that I need answering about my S1 Elise (standard):
1. Has anyone tried a 160TF ali throttle body on a standard S1 Elise? Does it make any difference to performance or is it a fix for a sticking plastic version?
2. It seems that there is very limited options when it comes to wheel replacement. I fancied some OZ or BBS racing wheels eventually but this may prove difficult. Does anyone have any information on supply/source?
3. I don't have a hardtop and we are heading towards winter. Is this going to be a big problem? Should I be looking at this as my first accessory purchase?
4. The front grill, as were many that I looked at is slightly tatty. Behind that, there is a mounting post that is corroded as well. How do I get to this to remove and respray/treat?
5. Any good stereo/speaker combinations available that will give reasonable quality sound?
6. What are the best fast-road tyres available? Tyres that would be ideal for mainly road use and the odd track day thrown in for good measure.
7. From what I can work out from the paperwork it has had a Lotus Stainless Race Exhaust?? and an ITG cone filter, the original airbox is still in place, should this be removed? As it is just the standard model, what would be the next feasible modification to obtain more power? I assume that it would be an ECU upgrade or new cams, any recommendations?
Thanks in advance.
James
I have a couple of questions that I need answering about my S1 Elise (standard):
1. Has anyone tried a 160TF ali throttle body on a standard S1 Elise? Does it make any difference to performance or is it a fix for a sticking plastic version?
2. It seems that there is very limited options when it comes to wheel replacement. I fancied some OZ or BBS racing wheels eventually but this may prove difficult. Does anyone have any information on supply/source?
3. I don't have a hardtop and we are heading towards winter. Is this going to be a big problem? Should I be looking at this as my first accessory purchase?
4. The front grill, as were many that I looked at is slightly tatty. Behind that, there is a mounting post that is corroded as well. How do I get to this to remove and respray/treat?
5. Any good stereo/speaker combinations available that will give reasonable quality sound?
6. What are the best fast-road tyres available? Tyres that would be ideal for mainly road use and the odd track day thrown in for good measure.
7. From what I can work out from the paperwork it has had a Lotus Stainless Race Exhaust?? and an ITG cone filter, the original airbox is still in place, should this be removed? As it is just the standard model, what would be the next feasible modification to obtain more power? I assume that it would be an ECU upgrade or new cams, any recommendations?
Thanks in advance.
James
Let me answer those that I'm qualified to do so:
1. The TF160TB is good for 1-2bhp on its own, maybe 4 or 5 in conjunction with a cold-air box. It fixes the "sticking" problem and it seems to make mine rev a touch freer.... when you're up there in the revs and you nail the throttle you REALLY notice an increase in throttle response over the plastic one... it's probably not much of a real performance gain, but FEELS better to drive..... probably not worth doing on its own, but worth tacking on if you're fitting a Hurricane/ITG Maxogen cold-air induction kit.
2. There are limited wheel options, best to stick with those that are general and accepted. "Sport 160 wheels" or "victories" are probably the most popular mod and look BRILLIANT... they're slightly wider too so allow more rubber to be used. 340R wheels also fit and there are a FEW manufacturers out there who DID do wheels for the Elise. See the pic in my profile, they're TechnoMagnesio 6-spokers... lighter than original, wider than original and rare as hell.... if you find any you'll be lucky, but they're out there.
3. Hardtop isn't necessary really.. the soft tops are USUALLY pretty weather proof... some are, some aren't... tent to really only be a probelm when parked in heavy rain for long periods. Probably your best bet is to keep the soft-top and get a "shower cap"... easy and quick to fit and just covers the top and windows... works a treat year-round. Hardtop is the best solution, but hard to remove in a hurry and expensive.
4. I did mine a while back. The grill removes with a couple of screws. Remove it and have a look... if it's too rusty it's too far gone to be refurbished and someone like Eliseparts.com will be able to sell you a new one in stainless which can be painted black. If it's only surface rust, take it to a POWDERCOATERS (more resilient than paint)... they'll sandblast it clean then coat it... it'll be durable enough to look good for another 5-10 years or so.
As for the towing eye bar, you can't remove it without removing the front clam. I took to mine (carefully) with some sandpaper for a couple of hours to clean it up and remove all the old paint and any rust. I then masked the whole front end of the car and the inside of the "mouth" (grille removed obviously) and then primed it and spraypainted it with a satin black.... mine came up looking about as good as new.... behind the newly-powdercoated front grille it looks brand new and certainly helps to make the car look a LOT tidier.
6. There are a few options. Cost-performance wise, many people use Toyo Proxes T1-R or T1-S. They's average to good on track but a good all-round street tyre, last well and are cheap. There are some Advans that are probably slightly better but more expensive and less durable. You won't want to go to a more dedicated track tyre such as a Toyo RA-1 etc as these will wear a little too quickly on the road for what it sounds like you want. I run the Toyo Proxes T1-S and find them a fantastic all-round tyre for the Elise... progressive, hard-wearing and good in wet and dry alike. Talk to others though because they'll all have their own preferences.
7. If it's got a "stainless race exhaust" this should be easy enough to check as it should look different in the tailpipes from another "standard" elise.... unbolting the rear diffuser tray to have a look at the rear can will show you whether it's stainless or not... also check the headers to see if they're standard too. Good gains can be had with a decent exhaust and induction system. If it's got an ITG cone filter it shouldn't have the standard airbox. The airbox is for a panel-type filter... if it's got a cone-filter it'll either have a cone airbox that will fit there somewhere or will have no airbox at all with the cone filter on display for you to see.... it may have once had a cone filter but could have been removed at some point to re-fit the OE system?
For a Standard S1, the order I would do things (and am doing things) is Inlet (Hurricane) and Throttle Body. followed by a full exhaust system (4-2-1, Cat replacement and back box). Those two groups alone should take you from 118bhp to just over 130bhp. From then on you can possibly go ECU which will give better running with these mods and also help them liberate a bit more power (up to 138-140). From then on you can add cams and vernier pulleys for another 10bhp or so and maybe some porting. All this done well in tandem will give you at LEAST 162bhp as this is basically a little beyond the factory "sport 160 spec" .... This is really where you'll hit the wall... 170bhp is easily and cheaply achieveable from the engine without seriously expensive work... 180 at a push... after that you'll start needing to go more expensive... forged internals, blueprinting, uprated fuelling system and some direct-to-head throttle bodies as well as even wilder cams and porting.... this is where things get expensive.
For my money it'd be inlet, exhaust and ECU... you'll not have to crack the engine open at all, you'll have 140ish bhp to play with and not have lost any fuel economy or driveability whilst still having the power to live with standard Sport 135s and Sport 160s on track (almost)... you also retain the ability to change it back to factory standard for the want of an afternoon with the spanners should you decide to sell it on and sell the modification bits separately (which will probably net you the most cash).
Hope this has helped
Get out there and enjoy it! 
>> Edited by Esprit on Thursday 6th October 11:35
veetwin said:
I thought that it would be better on a different thread so here goes:
I have a couple of questions that I need answering about my S1 Elise (standard):
1. Has anyone tried a 160TF ali throttle body on a standard S1 Elise? Does it make any difference to performance or is it a fix for a sticking plastic version?
2. It seems that there is very limited options when it comes to wheel replacement. I fancied some OZ or BBS racing wheels eventually but this may prove difficult. Does anyone have any information on supply/source?
3. I don't have a hardtop and we are heading towards winter. Is this going to be a big problem? Should I be looking at this as my first accessory purchase?
4. The front grill, as were many that I looked at is slightly tatty. Behind that, there is a mounting post that is corroded as well. How do I get to this to remove and respray/treat?
6. What are the best fast-road tyres available? Tyres that would be ideal for mainly road use and the odd track day thrown in for good measure.
7. From what I can work out from the paperwork it has had a Lotus Stainless Race Exhaust?? and an ITG cone filter, the original airbox is still in place, should this be removed? As it is just the standard model, what would be the next feasible modification to obtain more power? I assume that it would be an ECU upgrade or new cams, any recommendations?
Thanks in advance.
James
1. The TF160TB is good for 1-2bhp on its own, maybe 4 or 5 in conjunction with a cold-air box. It fixes the "sticking" problem and it seems to make mine rev a touch freer.... when you're up there in the revs and you nail the throttle you REALLY notice an increase in throttle response over the plastic one... it's probably not much of a real performance gain, but FEELS better to drive..... probably not worth doing on its own, but worth tacking on if you're fitting a Hurricane/ITG Maxogen cold-air induction kit.
2. There are limited wheel options, best to stick with those that are general and accepted. "Sport 160 wheels" or "victories" are probably the most popular mod and look BRILLIANT... they're slightly wider too so allow more rubber to be used. 340R wheels also fit and there are a FEW manufacturers out there who DID do wheels for the Elise. See the pic in my profile, they're TechnoMagnesio 6-spokers... lighter than original, wider than original and rare as hell.... if you find any you'll be lucky, but they're out there.
3. Hardtop isn't necessary really.. the soft tops are USUALLY pretty weather proof... some are, some aren't... tent to really only be a probelm when parked in heavy rain for long periods. Probably your best bet is to keep the soft-top and get a "shower cap"... easy and quick to fit and just covers the top and windows... works a treat year-round. Hardtop is the best solution, but hard to remove in a hurry and expensive.
4. I did mine a while back. The grill removes with a couple of screws. Remove it and have a look... if it's too rusty it's too far gone to be refurbished and someone like Eliseparts.com will be able to sell you a new one in stainless which can be painted black. If it's only surface rust, take it to a POWDERCOATERS (more resilient than paint)... they'll sandblast it clean then coat it... it'll be durable enough to look good for another 5-10 years or so.
As for the towing eye bar, you can't remove it without removing the front clam. I took to mine (carefully) with some sandpaper for a couple of hours to clean it up and remove all the old paint and any rust. I then masked the whole front end of the car and the inside of the "mouth" (grille removed obviously) and then primed it and spraypainted it with a satin black.... mine came up looking about as good as new.... behind the newly-powdercoated front grille it looks brand new and certainly helps to make the car look a LOT tidier.
6. There are a few options. Cost-performance wise, many people use Toyo Proxes T1-R or T1-S. They's average to good on track but a good all-round street tyre, last well and are cheap. There are some Advans that are probably slightly better but more expensive and less durable. You won't want to go to a more dedicated track tyre such as a Toyo RA-1 etc as these will wear a little too quickly on the road for what it sounds like you want. I run the Toyo Proxes T1-S and find them a fantastic all-round tyre for the Elise... progressive, hard-wearing and good in wet and dry alike. Talk to others though because they'll all have their own preferences.
7. If it's got a "stainless race exhaust" this should be easy enough to check as it should look different in the tailpipes from another "standard" elise.... unbolting the rear diffuser tray to have a look at the rear can will show you whether it's stainless or not... also check the headers to see if they're standard too. Good gains can be had with a decent exhaust and induction system. If it's got an ITG cone filter it shouldn't have the standard airbox. The airbox is for a panel-type filter... if it's got a cone-filter it'll either have a cone airbox that will fit there somewhere or will have no airbox at all with the cone filter on display for you to see.... it may have once had a cone filter but could have been removed at some point to re-fit the OE system?
For a Standard S1, the order I would do things (and am doing things) is Inlet (Hurricane) and Throttle Body. followed by a full exhaust system (4-2-1, Cat replacement and back box). Those two groups alone should take you from 118bhp to just over 130bhp. From then on you can possibly go ECU which will give better running with these mods and also help them liberate a bit more power (up to 138-140). From then on you can add cams and vernier pulleys for another 10bhp or so and maybe some porting. All this done well in tandem will give you at LEAST 162bhp as this is basically a little beyond the factory "sport 160 spec" .... This is really where you'll hit the wall... 170bhp is easily and cheaply achieveable from the engine without seriously expensive work... 180 at a push... after that you'll start needing to go more expensive... forged internals, blueprinting, uprated fuelling system and some direct-to-head throttle bodies as well as even wilder cams and porting.... this is where things get expensive.
For my money it'd be inlet, exhaust and ECU... you'll not have to crack the engine open at all, you'll have 140ish bhp to play with and not have lost any fuel economy or driveability whilst still having the power to live with standard Sport 135s and Sport 160s on track (almost)... you also retain the ability to change it back to factory standard for the want of an afternoon with the spanners should you decide to sell it on and sell the modification bits separately (which will probably net you the most cash).
Hope this has helped
Get out there and enjoy it! >> Edited by Esprit on Thursday 6th October 11:35
Thanks for the information, that has helped. I don't pick the car up until next week and will be spending this weekend shuffling the garage around to get the car in. I have just wrapped up my Fireblade for winter and it is in the way at the moment, so that will be moved to the back.
From what you mention, the throttle body is going to be the first on the list along with the shower cap!!
From what you mention, the throttle body is going to be the first on the list along with the shower cap!!
No Problem, Happy to help
I'm by no means an Elise veteran, I'm about to enjoy my first summer with mine (NZ) can't wait... put up with winter and the current crappy spring weather (monsoon) and hoping to spend many happy hours on the road enjoying her
Oh and another worthwhile mod that's definitely worth a look is a short-shift kit and uprated gear linkage (again from Eliseparts).... it's just over a hundred quid and it's a mod that you'll appreciate in all conditiond... makes gearchanges easier, quicker and just enhances the driving experience
I'm by no means an Elise veteran, I'm about to enjoy my first summer with mine
(NZ) can't wait... put up with winter and the current crappy spring weather (monsoon) and hoping to spend many happy hours on the road enjoying her Oh and another worthwhile mod that's definitely worth a look is a short-shift kit and uprated gear linkage (again from Eliseparts).... it's just over a hundred quid and it's a mod that you'll appreciate in all conditiond... makes gearchanges easier, quicker and just enhances the driving experience
All sound advice from Esprit. Would only take issue with the tyre choice. Advans are the tyre if cost is not an option, but for those you'll want the bigger 'Victory' rims as Esprit suggested.
Would second the quickshift from eliseparts - really good.
Also next time your in Halfrauds get some of the Nylon rubber protective spray to protect the side window guides as its a regular weakpoint and drives people mad. Prevention is much easier than cure!
Would second the quickshift from eliseparts - really good.
Also next time your in Halfrauds get some of the Nylon rubber protective spray to protect the side window guides as its a regular weakpoint and drives people mad. Prevention is much easier than cure!
markr said:
Also next time your in Halfrauds get some of the Nylon rubber protective spray to protect the side window guides as its a regular weakpoint and drives people mad. Prevention is much easier than cure!
What do the guides do? Squeak, Leak? I don't think that I have ever come across this type of spray. Would it be in the renovation section with the filler, etc.?
Tyres: BF Goodrich are a god option for an S1 £300 or less for a set. Far better the P zeros, other say better that Toyo T1 and equal to Advan Neovo LTS.
If you cloth roof is tatty you can send it to Lotus for refurb via a Lotus dealer sub £50.oo for the service.
I have a hard top and it helps tp keep the heat in and the rain out. Many on ebay/pistonheads/SELOC for around £400 to £500.
Gary
If you cloth roof is tatty you can send it to Lotus for refurb via a Lotus dealer sub £50.oo for the service.
I have a hard top and it helps tp keep the heat in and the rain out. Many on ebay/pistonheads/SELOC for around £400 to £500.
Gary
Another question......
I have seen some red rear indicators on www.elise-shop.com. Do these flash orange with diadem bulbs? Would they pass an MOT?
I have seen some red rear indicators on www.elise-shop.com. Do these flash orange with diadem bulbs? Would they pass an MOT?
Sorry forgot, speakers, I have Focal Polyglass £250 fitted. Damn good.
Also 7K off 100,000 miles from new. I have kept it serviced and it has only started to cost money now, which I would excpect. HGF in Feb(AA parts and Labour helped here), Shocks MOT Fail (Original shocks), new clutch required (still on original).
Here is a sumary of my car for your mate:
Elise Owner from new in Sept 99 S1 used Sun, Rain,Hail, Snow, Ice and Fog.
Worth every penny.
To date problems worth noting are:
1) 1000 miles - Throttle Body & Rivet for the accelerator spring at 1000 miles (fixed under warranty)
2) Feb 2004 – After visiting <a href="www.lotuscars.co.uk">www.lotuscars.co.uk</a> Floor well rot (to be fixed under Warranty Oct 25)
3) Nov 2004 84,000 miles Gear selection is as if the gearbox is possessed reverse put into first let out the clutch, still in reverse! Turned out to be a cable locking clip 52p +Drive shaft Seal.
4) Feb 2005 87,246 HGF - Fixed with the help of AA parts & Labour insurance.
5) July 2005 91,000 Other clip fallen off only 2nd gear. Clip on with cable ties to secure £1.50.
6) MOT sept Shock blown, fitted a temp S/H unit.
Now 93,500 miles in all:
* Tyres, 4 x P zero front, 8 x P Zero Rear, now BF G front & rear.
* On the third set of disks, 5th set of pads.
* The original Clutch is about to expire.
* 3rd Exhuast,
* 2nd Cat,
* 2nd Downpipe.
Serviced at every 9000 mile interval (thats 10 to date) biggest was £1000 for C service + disks & pads. Cheapest was around £180 for an 'A'. Dealers will charge you. 2001 prices HR Owen 'A', £450 SGT £350, Steve Williams £200, yes Steve did it. Find a specailist.
Good luck
>> Edited by garydvo on Friday 7th October 10:19
>> Edited by garydvo on Friday 7th October 10:21
Also 7K off 100,000 miles from new. I have kept it serviced and it has only started to cost money now, which I would excpect. HGF in Feb(AA parts and Labour helped here), Shocks MOT Fail (Original shocks), new clutch required (still on original).
Here is a sumary of my car for your mate:
Elise Owner from new in Sept 99 S1 used Sun, Rain,Hail, Snow, Ice and Fog.
Worth every penny.
To date problems worth noting are:
1) 1000 miles - Throttle Body & Rivet for the accelerator spring at 1000 miles (fixed under warranty)
2) Feb 2004 – After visiting <a href="www.lotuscars.co.uk">www.lotuscars.co.uk</a> Floor well rot (to be fixed under Warranty Oct 25)
3) Nov 2004 84,000 miles Gear selection is as if the gearbox is possessed reverse put into first let out the clutch, still in reverse! Turned out to be a cable locking clip 52p +Drive shaft Seal.
4) Feb 2005 87,246 HGF - Fixed with the help of AA parts & Labour insurance.
5) July 2005 91,000 Other clip fallen off only 2nd gear. Clip on with cable ties to secure £1.50.
6) MOT sept Shock blown, fitted a temp S/H unit.
Now 93,500 miles in all:
* Tyres, 4 x P zero front, 8 x P Zero Rear, now BF G front & rear.
* On the third set of disks, 5th set of pads.
* The original Clutch is about to expire.
* 3rd Exhuast,
* 2nd Cat,
* 2nd Downpipe.
Serviced at every 9000 mile interval (thats 10 to date) biggest was £1000 for C service + disks & pads. Cheapest was around £180 for an 'A'. Dealers will charge you. 2001 prices HR Owen 'A', £450 SGT £350, Steve Williams £200, yes Steve did it. Find a specailist.
Good luck
>> Edited by garydvo on Friday 7th October 10:19
>> Edited by garydvo on Friday 7th October 10:21
Not sure they mean "red" indicators, pretty sure they mean "amber"... e-mail Eliseparts to check.... red ones would definitely be dodgt at MOT time.
Personally on the coloured lights vs clear lights thing... I think on a light coloured car, clear lights look naff.... give the car a "washed out" look.... on a Dark Elise though with the headlight covers fitted, the clear indicators look rather tasty.
Personally I don't think I'll ever replace my coloured ones..... they just look right... still all crystal clear and not at all sufaded
Elises aren't unreliable at all... it's all bollox.... plenty are well used and are of similar or greater reliability than other sportscars (know of anyone with a Z3? how reliable are they?). My example is a rather pampered one (it only ever gets wet when I'm washing it!) and apart from a few stonechips it looks and drives like new... no squeaks or rattles..... In NZ the cars tend to stay like this as they're rare (and pampered) and our road/weather conditions are less conducive to corrosion..... but there'll still be plenty of well-looked-after examples out there
Personally on the coloured lights vs clear lights thing... I think on a light coloured car, clear lights look naff.... give the car a "washed out" look.... on a Dark Elise though with the headlight covers fitted, the clear indicators look rather tasty.
Personally I don't think I'll ever replace my coloured ones..... they just look right... still all crystal clear and not at all sufaded
Elises aren't unreliable at all... it's all bollox.... plenty are well used and are of similar or greater reliability than other sportscars (know of anyone with a Z3? how reliable are they?). My example is a rather pampered one (it only ever gets wet when I'm washing it!) and apart from a few stonechips it looks and drives like new... no squeaks or rattles..... In NZ the cars tend to stay like this as they're rare (and pampered) and our road/weather conditions are less conducive to corrosion..... but there'll still be plenty of well-looked-after examples out there
Veetwin - by guides I mean the side window guides. The glass is prone to getting stuck to them over time, and as the clasp at the bottom that basically 'holds' the glass relative to the winder breaks. Usually leaving the glass halfway up or down. The silicon spray (yellow can) lubricates the rubber guides to prevent it sticking in the first place. I also use it for wiping round the rubber on the door seals.
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff