Lasting Power of Attorney
Discussion
I have successfully completed one finance related LPA via the government website and found it relatively straightforward to do. I did not include any special request or instructions.
I am at a loss to understand why solicitors seem to charge more for helping you create an LPA than for a will. Does anyone have any informed perspective on this?
I attended a seminar recently and specifically asked for a justification of the fees: the answer given was that just creating a "vanilla" LPA was like issuing a blank cheque to the attorneys. I really felt like this was scaremongering - after all the attorneys have to be answerable to the actions they take which must be in the interest of the donor.
Does anyone have any examples of the special instructions in an LPA (health or finance) authored by a solicitor that they consider essential to the "safe" implementation of an LPA? I'd be grateful for some examples either in this thread or privately.
Thanks
(Mod please move if there is a more appropriate section of the forum to post this).
I am at a loss to understand why solicitors seem to charge more for helping you create an LPA than for a will. Does anyone have any informed perspective on this?
I attended a seminar recently and specifically asked for a justification of the fees: the answer given was that just creating a "vanilla" LPA was like issuing a blank cheque to the attorneys. I really felt like this was scaremongering - after all the attorneys have to be answerable to the actions they take which must be in the interest of the donor.
Does anyone have any examples of the special instructions in an LPA (health or finance) authored by a solicitor that they consider essential to the "safe" implementation of an LPA? I'd be grateful for some examples either in this thread or privately.
Thanks
(Mod please move if there is a more appropriate section of the forum to post this).
We did our LPAs for both financial and health without using a solicitor.
My wife included a clause on her health about assisted dying (if legal at the time) if she had severe dementia so as not to go into a nursing home.
On the financial side I think you can put anything in such as two people to approve certain payments or over certain amounts etc.
Attorneys can act jointly or severally with conditions attached.
If you are appointing a spouse and or children there really shouldn’t be any issues.
My wife included a clause on her health about assisted dying (if legal at the time) if she had severe dementia so as not to go into a nursing home.
On the financial side I think you can put anything in such as two people to approve certain payments or over certain amounts etc.
Attorneys can act jointly or severally with conditions attached.
If you are appointing a spouse and or children there really shouldn’t be any issues.
Does seem rather scaremongering but perhaps that wasn’t the right way of justifying their fees ?
As you also say at all times the attorney has to behave in such a way that the donors interests and wants are adhered to.
To not do so is in contradiction of the LPA and there have been a few threads on here where exactly that appears to have happened.
When I did both ours - 4 in total - ( and also got involved in setting up a relatives ) I did use a solicitor but only because we were doing wills at the same time and the cost was diluted.
The forms are straightforward but there have been cases where perhaps the joint and several aspect has been incorrectly ticked and consequently logistical issues in decision making have apparently occurred.
Using the forms you can in the applicable box restrict powers to whatever is deemed acceptable to all sides but that seemed to me to defeat the object.
Just because the LPA is registered and exists doesn’t mean you have to use it on behalf of said person until there is no other option.
As you also say at all times the attorney has to behave in such a way that the donors interests and wants are adhered to.
To not do so is in contradiction of the LPA and there have been a few threads on here where exactly that appears to have happened.
When I did both ours - 4 in total - ( and also got involved in setting up a relatives ) I did use a solicitor but only because we were doing wills at the same time and the cost was diluted.
The forms are straightforward but there have been cases where perhaps the joint and several aspect has been incorrectly ticked and consequently logistical issues in decision making have apparently occurred.
Using the forms you can in the applicable box restrict powers to whatever is deemed acceptable to all sides but that seemed to me to defeat the object.
Just because the LPA is registered and exists doesn’t mean you have to use it on behalf of said person until there is no other option.
If you’re able to do it online great, it might be a case of solicitors just have not caught up yet if it is a new service. I think it was 9 years ago we did LPA’s for both my parents (both finance and welfare) at that time you could do nothing online so we had to it through a solicitor. I cannot think of any special requirements/ restrictions you could add to them. Around covid you could register for online access but the only people that seemed to accept it were NS&i and they backtracked on a load being available for about a year. In the last year everyone seems happy to accept the access codes rather than needing physical copies.
It’s one of those services that generally just works now, in my experience. It’s like with the vehicle tax when you get the little survey saying ‘how have we done’ it’s a case of ‘ don’t touch it’, it’s boring, quick, no fancy graphics and generally just works.
It’s one of those services that generally just works now, in my experience. It’s like with the vehicle tax when you get the little survey saying ‘how have we done’ it’s a case of ‘ don’t touch it’, it’s boring, quick, no fancy graphics and generally just works.
My dad had a massive stroke about 4 weeks ago. My dad handed me all the paperwork in an envelope about 5 years ago and said just keep it safe, it will be easy if anything happens.
Turns out my dad only did finance and property not medical so if and when he recovers medical will be next to organise. Currently I have no say in what happens to him care wise is devastating.
Actually using the LPA for finance has been a f
king nightmare.
I was led to believe from dad’s solicitor at the time that it’s as simple as giving the financial institutes a code which you generate online and they then use that code to lookup the LPA particulars.
What a load of fking bks. None of the institutes (Loyds, Nationwide, HSBC) will accept an online code. They have all asked for the original LPA paperwork (about 15 pages long according to Loyds). Which surprise surprise is held by my dad’s solicitors.
I then had to speak to the same solicitors who set it up who have then point blank refused to even speak to me beyond acknowledging they hold it unless I can get a letter from his dr (who seems to be impossible to speak to at the hospital and even as his next of kin have been very reluctant to tell me anything).
Oh and to top it off the solicitors want £350 to release a certified copy of the LPA if I can provide a letter from the dr to say he is deemed to be mentally incapable of making decisions.
There are some points here.
1) I accept I should have read every part of the paperwork I was handed. What I got from the solicitors was confirmation of the registering of the LPA not the Actual LPA. I took my dads and solicitors word that it was all there, In a very small part I blame my dad but more so the solicitor for not explaining all of this, they are the experts. My dad was 70 at the time and at points I was asked to leave the solicitors office whilst they discuss stuff, I should have been a lot firmer.
2) In hindsight having now started looking at setting up mine and my wife LPA, I wont have a solicitor anywhere near it. I will do it all myself.
Turns out my dad only did finance and property not medical so if and when he recovers medical will be next to organise. Currently I have no say in what happens to him care wise is devastating.
Actually using the LPA for finance has been a f
king nightmare. I was led to believe from dad’s solicitor at the time that it’s as simple as giving the financial institutes a code which you generate online and they then use that code to lookup the LPA particulars.
What a load of f
king bks. None of the institutes (Loyds, Nationwide, HSBC) will accept an online code. They have all asked for the original LPA paperwork (about 15 pages long according to Loyds). Which surprise surprise is held by my dad’s solicitors. I then had to speak to the same solicitors who set it up who have then point blank refused to even speak to me beyond acknowledging they hold it unless I can get a letter from his dr (who seems to be impossible to speak to at the hospital and even as his next of kin have been very reluctant to tell me anything).
Oh and to top it off the solicitors want £350 to release a certified copy of the LPA if I can provide a letter from the dr to say he is deemed to be mentally incapable of making decisions.
There are some points here.
1) I accept I should have read every part of the paperwork I was handed. What I got from the solicitors was confirmation of the registering of the LPA not the Actual LPA. I took my dads and solicitors word that it was all there, In a very small part I blame my dad but more so the solicitor for not explaining all of this, they are the experts. My dad was 70 at the time and at points I was asked to leave the solicitors office whilst they discuss stuff, I should have been a lot firmer.
2) In hindsight having now started looking at setting up mine and my wife LPA, I wont have a solicitor anywhere near it. I will do it all myself.
Best wishes for your Fathers recovery.
That does all sound very stressful which of course is the last thing you need.
I agree that not all FI ‘s accept the code ( I found it paradoxical that NS&I as a government Dept in effect wouldn’t when another government Dept ( the OPG ) issued it !
Doesn’t help now obviously but one option when they are produced is for the recipient to hold them in their files.
When I needed to enact both for my aunt it was simply a matter of scanning them in and sending to those not accepting the code.
When we did ours years ago the originals were left with the Solicitors who subsequently went out of business.
Luckily we had by then updated them as we did new wills and kept them ourselves.
One other tip - do not ever name the solicitors as either donors of the LPA or indeed as Executors on wills.
That does all sound very stressful which of course is the last thing you need.
I agree that not all FI ‘s accept the code ( I found it paradoxical that NS&I as a government Dept in effect wouldn’t when another government Dept ( the OPG ) issued it !
Doesn’t help now obviously but one option when they are produced is for the recipient to hold them in their files.
When I needed to enact both for my aunt it was simply a matter of scanning them in and sending to those not accepting the code.
When we did ours years ago the originals were left with the Solicitors who subsequently went out of business.
Luckily we had by then updated them as we did new wills and kept them ourselves.
One other tip - do not ever name the solicitors as either donors of the LPA or indeed as Executors on wills.
We've just done the financial one for Dad. You can fill it in online but you still need to print it out and have it all signed and witnessed in the right order.
There is a guide on the government website and it does warn you about the language used if you decide to add all sorts of extra requirements.
I asked a load of people before we did this one and most of them that got paid legal help did it because they were doing a will or sorting other affairs out at the same time. Biggest issue we had was signatures and witnesses as the family is spread across the country but it was straightforward in the end.
There is a guide on the government website and it does warn you about the language used if you decide to add all sorts of extra requirements.
I asked a load of people before we did this one and most of them that got paid legal help did it because they were doing a will or sorting other affairs out at the same time. Biggest issue we had was signatures and witnesses as the family is spread across the country but it was straightforward in the end.
I'm guilty. I paid a solicitor to do wills and both LPAs for me and Mrs Bert. What was I thinking, cost a fortune. They did an ok job, although it look a lifetime and the customer service - responding to me was off the scale bad.
In retrospect, the theme from the solicitor was that you need to get it perfectly right. If you cock it up it may well be very late in the day when you find out and hard to correct. That's where the fee justification seemed to come from.
Anyway, looks to me like LPAs are pretty easy. For me wills less so.
Bert
In retrospect, the theme from the solicitor was that you need to get it perfectly right. If you cock it up it may well be very late in the day when you find out and hard to correct. That's where the fee justification seemed to come from.
Anyway, looks to me like LPAs are pretty easy. For me wills less so.
Bert
I found using my mothers financial lPA to be a breeze, I took the original paperwork to her bank, they copied it and gave me access to her bank account to look after her bills etc, and gave me a bank card for the cash machine. All very easy. Her FA asked me fora code that can be generated on the Government Gateway account, which I gave him so that he could provide me with certain information of investments mum had with him.
Personally I would never let a solicitor keep the original LPA or will. The will writing company that my mum used for her will went under, taking all the paperwork with them and so mum effectively died without a will which i'm sure is soon to present me with problems as her executor.
Personally I would never let a solicitor keep the original LPA or will. The will writing company that my mum used for her will went under, taking all the paperwork with them and so mum effectively died without a will which i'm sure is soon to present me with problems as her executor.
The Gauge said:
Personally I would never let a solicitor keep the original LPA or will.
This, in spades.Keep the originals yourself, in a fire safe, or with someone you trust, like maybe the appointed attorney and/or executor.
We left our original wills with the solicitor, who was taken over by a bigger boys came firm, and it was a nightmare to get the originals back when we wanted to change them.
I can't remember what they were now but there were a number of things that the solicitor pointed out or made sure that we had thought about when constructing the wills and LPAs. I consider it money well spent.
Tymb said:
If you re able to do it online great, it might be a case of solicitors just have not caught up yet if it is a new service. I think it was 9 years ago we did LPA s for both my parents (both finance and welfare) at that time you could do nothing online so we had to it through a solicitor.
I'm sure you've always (since they were introduced) been able to do LPA's yourself, using paper forms. I can't remember tha year, but did them many years ago for FIL - although in BIL's attempt to do them he inadvertently used an internet link to solicitor thinking it was the Government site.You could do an EPA yourself before that too - but they were finance only.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 28th September 23:09
I've just done financial and welfare for my dad who has Alzheimer's.
Had to go with a solicitor in the end as we couldn't find a certificate provider. GP, social services, care agency - all declined.
The fees are astronomical for what they do but I suppose the idea is if that there are any issues they handle them as part of the fee, and they may have to enlist a medical professional to assess mental capacity. But not reducing the fee for doing both health and financial at the same time is poor, as only one assessment would be needed for both and the forms are almost identical.
They charged an additional £200 for a home visit and it was all done in an afternoon.
Thankfully my dad was having a good day but it very nearly went very wrong when the 'solicitor' was almost an hour late after insisting on being there with the OT to observe his interaction/understanding and we had to ask the OT to hang on.
She asked my dad some very grating and negatively leading questions which could easily have put him off before standing on his bad foot with her borderline stiletto heel. The questions were so badly phrased that I had to insist on interjecting to explain it more clearly to him and caveat that we would do nothing until he is fully incapable, a point she seemed keen not to mention.
She even asked him when his wife died which really confused him as he's not a widower.
Had to go with a solicitor in the end as we couldn't find a certificate provider. GP, social services, care agency - all declined.
The fees are astronomical for what they do but I suppose the idea is if that there are any issues they handle them as part of the fee, and they may have to enlist a medical professional to assess mental capacity. But not reducing the fee for doing both health and financial at the same time is poor, as only one assessment would be needed for both and the forms are almost identical.
They charged an additional £200 for a home visit and it was all done in an afternoon.
Thankfully my dad was having a good day but it very nearly went very wrong when the 'solicitor' was almost an hour late after insisting on being there with the OT to observe his interaction/understanding and we had to ask the OT to hang on.
She asked my dad some very grating and negatively leading questions which could easily have put him off before standing on his bad foot with her borderline stiletto heel. The questions were so badly phrased that I had to insist on interjecting to explain it more clearly to him and caveat that we would do nothing until he is fully incapable, a point she seemed keen not to mention.
She even asked him when his wife died which really confused him as he's not a widower.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff