Hear me out...
Author
Discussion

Chestrockwell

Original Poster:

2,862 posts

174 months

Yesterday (21:37)
quotequote all
Why don't CVT style Hybrid hot hatches exist yet?

My company car is a MG3 Hybrid, 2 speed auto but feels like a cvt most of the time.

It's 195 bhp and it would humble a lot of cars, 0-30 it zips off, 0-60, Matt Watson got 6.5 seconds

It's over powered and I have made a thread about it already about it being ridiculously overpowered. 195 bhp doesn't seem like a lot but when the bulk of the power is electric and instant, it does feel ridiculous in a funny way.

The more I drive it, the more I get used to how it handles and I can't help but think, what if they kept the same drivetrain but put a proper suspension/brake set up, it's a fun car to drive as it is and I never get less than 50mpg, even when thrashing it on quiet roads.

The car replaced a manual M240i so I do value fun and engagement but the initial pick up is all battery powered so it's got instant torque and the battery is recharged by the petrol engine so you're not burning fuel like you would.

That's fine for a lot of people, including myself as I commuted in a 20 mpg car for nearly 4 years but it's a nice feeling being able to go fast and enjoy driving without breaking the bank

I feel like it would be a hit and wouldn't cost a lot of money

Am I alone in this?

Edit - I know the Renault 5 exists along with a few more hot hatch ev's emerging but that's EV only, Hybrid has got to be the sweet spot

Edited by Chestrockwell on Friday 26th September 21:44

Dog Biscuit

1,040 posts

14 months

Yesterday (21:50)
quotequote all
It would be nigh on impossible to make anything with a CVT even remotely entertaining.

Absolutely dreadful things

Mad Maximus

687 posts

20 months

Yesterday (22:32)
quotequote all
Chestrockwell said:
Why don't CVT style Hybrid hot hatches exist yet?

My company car is a MG3 Hybrid, 2 speed auto but feels like a cvt most of the time.

It's 195 bhp and it would humble a lot of cars, 0-30 it zips off, 0-60, Matt Watson got 6.5 seconds

It's over powered and I have made a thread about it already about it being ridiculously overpowered. 195 bhp doesn't seem like a lot but when the bulk of the power is electric and instant, it does feel ridiculous in a funny way.

The more I drive it, the more I get used to how it handles and I can't help but think, what if they kept the same drivetrain but put a proper suspension/brake set up, it's a fun car to drive as it is and I never get less than 50mpg, even when thrashing it on quiet roads.

The car replaced a manual M240i so I do value fun and engagement but the initial pick up is all battery powered so it's got instant torque and the battery is recharged by the petrol engine so you're not burning fuel like you would.

That's fine for a lot of people, including myself as I commuted in a 20 mpg car for nearly 4 years but it's a nice feeling being able to go fast and enjoy driving without breaking the bank

I feel like it would be a hit and wouldn't cost a lot of money

Am I alone in this?

Edit - I know the Renault 5 exists along with a few more hot hatch ev's emerging but that's EV only, Hybrid has got to be the sweet spot

Edited by Chestrockwell on Friday 26th September 21:44
Cvt doesn’t suit spirited driving really. I suppose they can be good boxes but better alternatives exist. Either manual or dsg (or similar autos).

Hybrids meh. Some decent ones about I guess, the i8 that Honda crz (think it’s crz). Otherwise you get a small benefit but as the car ages you have to maintain 2 drivetrain’s .

Ian_SW

880 posts

102 months

Yesterday (23:00)
quotequote all
"Hot Hatches" are about rather more than 0-60 times. Quite a few of the good ones in terms of being entertaining and rewarding to drive are actually pretty slow by that metric.

Swift Sport is about 8 seconds, 106 Rallye around 9 seconds, 100BHP Panda about 10 seconds.

The Corolla hybrid (2 litre version) has a 0-60 time of 7.4 seconds, and because of the drivetrain any fool can achieve that. Even the pretty underpowered 1.8 gets to 60 in about 10 seconds. You just mash your right foot as far as you can into the carpet, the car makes a really unpleasant mooing noise and a few seconds later you're at the motorway speed limit. Not only that you could do that every time you set off for about half a million miles, and other than getting through tyres fairly quickly probably nothing would go wrong!

A lot of people probably couldn't get a Swift Sport from a standing start to 60 in anything close to the declared time without using up a fair amount of the clutch and possibly damaging the gearbox, so using the 0-60 argument as a measure, they would be better off with a Corolla. I know which one I'd rather take on a spirited drive down a country road though, even though the Corolla does actually handle pretty well.





It's not the speed which is enjoyable though


AndrewT1275

816 posts

257 months

Yesterday (23:18)
quotequote all
Dog Biscuit said:
It would be nigh on impossible to make anything with a CVT even remotely entertaining.

Absolutely dreadful things
Why are they so dreadful?

InitialDave

13,785 posts

136 months

Yesterday (23:22)
quotequote all
Chestrockwell said:
Why don't CVT style Hybrid hot hatches exist yet?
Because CVTs are, by and large, awful.

uktrailmonster

6,864 posts

217 months

Yesterday (23:38)
quotequote all
Chestrockwell said:
Why don't CVT style Hybrid hot hatches exist yet?
Zero demand. Nobody (except you) wants a CVT in preference to gears in a hot hatch.


FestivAli

1,127 posts

255 months

Subaru WRX uses a CVT if you aren't choosing the manual. I know it's a sedan and a wagon rather than a hatch but I guess in spirit it is the same albeit not a hybrid. Reading reviews they seem to still be pretty fun. I think there is probably scope for MG to throw some nice suspension, brakes and tyres at the MG3 Hybrid as it is a pretty healthy output for such a small car and I think here in Aus where our market is incredibly automatic focussed but also in terms of proportion of sales we buy the most 'hot variants' (eg proper renaultsports, AMG, M etc) relative to lesser models I think such a car would do quite well here.

C69

917 posts

29 months

Chestrockwell said:
My company car is a MG3 Hybrid, 2 speed auto but feels like a cvt most of the time.
It's a 3-speed, no? Is it a DCT or a proper torque converter?

Screenwash

181 posts

39 months

There must be a few good reasons why many manufacturers have spent a fortune on developing and finessing CVTs over the past 10-15 years?

otolith

62,710 posts

221 months

CVTs with artificially discrete ratios can do a fair impression of a conventional automatic, and a hybrid doesn’t necessarily need a cvt transmission. Honda CRZ was a manual hybrid. AMG C63 hybrid is a torque converter hybrid.

Riley Blue

22,582 posts

243 months

MG3?

Even if it does fly off the line it's a no thanks from me: https://www.euroncap.com/en/press-media/press-rele...

JonRS

67 posts

198 months

How many threads do we need on an MG3? I’ve driven one and to be honest they pick up ok but are not fast by any means. You get a little bit of instant torque and then the awful 1.5 engine kicks in.

This reads like many years ago with diesels owners thinking they had amazing performance, which again tails off pretty quick.

An MG3 wouldn’t even see which way a Fiesta ST went.

Sporky

8,968 posts

81 months

JonRS said:
An MG3 wouldn t even see which way a Fiesta ST went.
Doesn't that say more about how the respective stereotype owners drive?

(not entirely serious)

JonRS

67 posts

198 months

Not for much longer, once the fiesta owners find out about this outrageous powered MG. The MG3 is also actually a good car for the price. I was looking at one for my wife but we were asking where is the catch. Appears that the catch is your seat will finish you off in a crash.

Edited by JonRS on Saturday 27th September 08:49

Riley Blue

22,582 posts

243 months

JonRS said:
Not for much longer, once the fiesta owners find out about this outrageous powered MG. The MG3 is also actually a good car for the price. I was looking at one for my wife but we were asking where s the catch. Appears that the catch is your seat will finish you off in a crash.
The other catch is the spares availability, or lack of it, as with many of the recent influx of Chinese cars.

andy43

11,886 posts

271 months

Maybe… with a proper gearbox with actual gears, lowered suspension set up by Ford or Renaultsport, decent sporty tyres, seats that won’t kill you and a redesign of the bodywork you could be onto something.

NDNDNDND

2,482 posts

200 months

Chestrockwell said:
Why don't CVT style Hybrid hot hatches exist yet?

My company car is a MG3 Hybrid, 2 speed auto but feels like a cvt most of the time.

It's 195 bhp and it would humble a lot of cars, 0-30 it zips off, 0-60, Matt Watson got 6.5 seconds

It's over powered and I have made a thread about it already about it being ridiculously overpowered. 195 bhp doesn't seem like a lot but when the bulk of the power is electric and instant, it does feel ridiculous in a funny way.

The more I drive it, the more I get used to how it handles and I can't help but think, what if they kept the same drivetrain but put a proper suspension/brake set up, it's a fun car to drive as it is and I never get less than 50mpg, even when thrashing it on quiet roads.

The car replaced a manual M240i so I do value fun and engagement but the initial pick up is all battery powered so it's got instant torque and the battery is recharged by the petrol engine so you're not burning fuel like you would.

That's fine for a lot of people, including myself as I commuted in a 20 mpg car for nearly 4 years but it's a nice feeling being able to go fast and enjoy driving without breaking the bank

I feel like it would be a hit and wouldn't cost a lot of money

Am I alone in this?

Edit - I know the Renault 5 exists along with a few more hot hatch ev's emerging but that's EV only, Hybrid has got to be the sweet spot

Edited by Chestrockwell on Friday 26th September 21:44
Aren't you the Polo GTi guy...?

JonRS

67 posts

198 months

It has to be trolling I reckon, to be fair the MG 4 X-Power or the cyberster certainly do have some power, but the mg3 hybrid is a warm hatch at best.

RizzoTheRat

27,091 posts

209 months

To my mind a CVT hybrid is far superior to a standard auto, the electric responds instantly and the CVT means you get a useful gear pretty quickly. 0-60 in about 6 seconds isn't bad for my 2 tonne SUV.

But in a hot hatch I'd want a manual. Mines a lovely comfortable and relaxed motorway cruiser but not as fun as a small manual on a twisty back road.

That said there's several Ionic 5N owners on here who really rate them as fun to drive, and presumably a decent hybrid could drive similar.


Edited by RizzoTheRat on Saturday 27th September 21:38