£500 labour to swap two radiators?
Discussion
I want to get two radiators swapped, ASHP, glycol.
One we want to replace an old and tatty T21 with a slightly longer T22 Stelrad "designer", the other is replacing a T21 with a taller (700mm) T22.
Pipework is all exposed, running above the skirting, easy access.
Rads and valves will cost just over £600 retail.
Really struggling to find someone to actually do the work. Seems like a lot of plumbers won't touch heatpump systems or glycol.
Only managed to get one quote - £500 labour - which seems excessive for day's work here in Cornwall?
I know it's a bit harder to refill because it's glycol.
In the past, I've fitted rads myself, but that was on a normal boiler with a header tank.
Is it possible to DIY a glycol refill?
One we want to replace an old and tatty T21 with a slightly longer T22 Stelrad "designer", the other is replacing a T21 with a taller (700mm) T22.
Pipework is all exposed, running above the skirting, easy access.
Rads and valves will cost just over £600 retail.
Really struggling to find someone to actually do the work. Seems like a lot of plumbers won't touch heatpump systems or glycol.
Only managed to get one quote - £500 labour - which seems excessive for day's work here in Cornwall?
I know it's a bit harder to refill because it's glycol.
In the past, I've fitted rads myself, but that was on a normal boiler with a header tank.
Is it possible to DIY a glycol refill?
Living in Cornwall, unless the power went off for a really long time and it was freakishly cold ( Cornwall not known for it freezing temps ) I dont see the need for glycol ( antifreeze). In an ashp.
https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/do-air-source-he...
An interesting read.
https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/do-air-source-he...
An interesting read.
I’ve drained down my ashp so many times that it must be close to zero glycol now, has been this way for 3 years or so.
Lowest temps I’ve seen are -11 here.
I did always intend to get it refilled to correct %, but then there’s always another alteration around the corner on a house renovation.
No issues, make sure you have sufficient lagging externally and if really concerned a backup power supply for your CH pumps will keep things flowing in the event of a power outage.
Pretty sure glycol is worse at transferring heat than water too.
Lowest temps I’ve seen are -11 here.
I did always intend to get it refilled to correct %, but then there’s always another alteration around the corner on a house renovation.
No issues, make sure you have sufficient lagging externally and if really concerned a backup power supply for your CH pumps will keep things flowing in the event of a power outage.
Pretty sure glycol is worse at transferring heat than water too.
Oh I binned the service off after the first time and do it myself
£350 to take a cover off and say “the fins aren’t bent on the outdoor unit” Spending over a grand on this to maintain the warranty for a max of 3 years? Nah, I took the gamble and it’s paid off.
And they charge the same whether they top glycol up or not.
Took her apart snd gave her a proper clean using AC condenser sanitiser this year. Good as new.
Without being that guy/ sort of customer, there were a few things on the system I had to explain to them how to achieve and they were the “pros” that installed it.
£350 to take a cover off and say “the fins aren’t bent on the outdoor unit” Spending over a grand on this to maintain the warranty for a max of 3 years? Nah, I took the gamble and it’s paid off.
And they charge the same whether they top glycol up or not.
Took her apart snd gave her a proper clean using AC condenser sanitiser this year. Good as new.
Without being that guy/ sort of customer, there were a few things on the system I had to explain to them how to achieve and they were the “pros” that installed it.
It might be a simple job in theory, but trades quoting for small jobs have to assess the potential for problems.
If you accept his £500 quote, it could take him a day to drain down, fit the new rads and refill etc in which case he'd be OK.
If something doesn't go to plan (trouble with connections to existing / leaks / re-balancing issues etc) he'd be back there for a second day to sort it out & could be out of pocket as you wouldn't pay more than the original £500.
Estimating work as a sole trader has to account for this type of risk - some you win, some you lose.
If you accept his £500 quote, it could take him a day to drain down, fit the new rads and refill etc in which case he'd be OK.
If something doesn't go to plan (trouble with connections to existing / leaks / re-balancing issues etc) he'd be back there for a second day to sort it out & could be out of pocket as you wouldn't pay more than the original £500.
Estimating work as a sole trader has to account for this type of risk - some you win, some you lose.
I'd be fine with paying £300 for a day's work. My usual builder charges £220, decorator charged me the same (and did a very good job, better than I could do myself when I was younger).
Sparky that did the wiring for our bathroom refurb charged £140 for half a day, including supplying a new shower isolation switch.
The plumber quoted after a phone call - no site visit.
Another plumber, who did visit for the quote, told me he wouldn't have to drain the glycol, as he "wasn't touching the primary circuit, no glycol in the rads". I guess he didn't like being corrected, as he never got back to us with a price.
Last plumbers we hired to fit a new radiator and some pipework seemed totally clueless, put the pipes in backwards ( top feed, bottom exit), and didn't lag the new pipes in the loft. Had to get it redone by the heatpump installers. 2 guys, whole day, £800 inc materials. I don't think they'd ever fitted a vertical rad before, got it wrong despite me showing them the manufacturer's guide (what does this baffle do, don't need that).
Sticking on a "what if?" contingency on every job seems like a nice little earner - maybe I should try that one myself?
I quote a price, based on what the "average" job of that type needs. If it needs a lot more work, so be it. I only charge extra if I need to get parts custom made (always agreed with the customer first). Oh, and I'm lucky to make £20 an hour, despite having just one "competitor" in the county, and more work than I need.
The really annoying thing is, back in the day I would've (and have) done all this stuff myself. Knees and back just aren't up to it now.
Sparky that did the wiring for our bathroom refurb charged £140 for half a day, including supplying a new shower isolation switch.
The plumber quoted after a phone call - no site visit.
Another plumber, who did visit for the quote, told me he wouldn't have to drain the glycol, as he "wasn't touching the primary circuit, no glycol in the rads". I guess he didn't like being corrected, as he never got back to us with a price.
Last plumbers we hired to fit a new radiator and some pipework seemed totally clueless, put the pipes in backwards ( top feed, bottom exit), and didn't lag the new pipes in the loft. Had to get it redone by the heatpump installers. 2 guys, whole day, £800 inc materials. I don't think they'd ever fitted a vertical rad before, got it wrong despite me showing them the manufacturer's guide (what does this baffle do, don't need that).
Sticking on a "what if?" contingency on every job seems like a nice little earner - maybe I should try that one myself?
I quote a price, based on what the "average" job of that type needs. If it needs a lot more work, so be it. I only charge extra if I need to get parts custom made (always agreed with the customer first). Oh, and I'm lucky to make £20 an hour, despite having just one "competitor" in the county, and more work than I need.
The really annoying thing is, back in the day I would've (and have) done all this stuff myself. Knees and back just aren't up to it now.
clockworks said:
The plumber quoted after a phone call - no site visit.
Another plumber, who did visit for the quote, told me he wouldn't have to drain the glycol, as he "wasn't touching the primary circuit, no glycol in the rads". I guess he didn't like being corrected, as he never got back to us with a price.
Ha!Another plumber, who did visit for the quote, told me he wouldn't have to drain the glycol, as he "wasn't touching the primary circuit, no glycol in the rads". I guess he didn't like being corrected, as he never got back to us with a price.
Earlier in the year I moved our heat pump, the somewhat suspicious rubber seals on the 28mm flexis had gone and didnt hold pressure when I filled the circuit back up. (Mating face to mating face)
Quick trip down the road to the local plumber merchants who proudly display a sign proclaiming “we are heat pump experts”
Asked the owner for some fibre washers in this size.
What for, a heat pump? Oh no, fibre washers couldn’t take what’s in the water.. or the heat of the system.
I looked at him and said, what 55 degrees max and like the same fibre washers on the gate valves / grundfoss pumps - it’s the same water you know?
Blank stare
Thinking about it, decent plumbers are booked up this time of year as people turn on their heating for the first time in 6 months and discover it's not working.
Might be they are just pricing high as they don't need a smaller job at the moment unless it's going to make a larger than average profit.
ETA: If you've got a "usual builder" have you asked him if he can put you in touch with any decent plumbers he has worked with who might give you a better quote?
Might be they are just pricing high as they don't need a smaller job at the moment unless it's going to make a larger than average profit.
ETA: If you've got a "usual builder" have you asked him if he can put you in touch with any decent plumbers he has worked with who might give you a better quote?
Edited by OzzyR1 on Friday 26th September 22:55
clockworks said:
Last plumbers we hired to fit a new radiator and some pipework seemed totally clueless, put the pipes in backwards ( top feed, bottom exit
Wouldn't say they were totally clueless - in fact fitting a radiator like this (known as TBOE or TBSE*) is marginally more efficient then connecting the flow and return pipes to the bottom opposite ends of the radiator (BBOE).It's also good for ease of access to the TRV with the TRV positioned at the top.
TBSE = Top Bottom Same Ends;
BBOE = Bottom Bottom Opposite Ends
(Manufacturer's output figures are given based on TBSE as it gives the highest output).
GasEngineer said:
Wouldn't say they were totally clueless - in fact fitting a radiator like this (known as TBOE or TBSE*) is marginally more efficient then connecting the flow and return pipes to the bottom opposite ends of the radiator (BBOE).
It's also good for ease of access to the TRV with the TRV positioned at the top.
TBSE = Top Bottom Same Ends;
BBOE = Bottom Bottom Opposite Ends
(Manufacturer's output figures are given based on TBSE as it gives the highest output).
Top feed, bottom exit, same side, was the only configuration specifically ruled out by the radiator manufacturer in supplied documentation.It's also good for ease of access to the TRV with the TRV positioned at the top.
TBSE = Top Bottom Same Ends;
BBOE = Bottom Bottom Opposite Ends
(Manufacturer's output figures are given based on TBSE as it gives the highest output).
It's a column designer rad.
With it installed like this, the tubes on the far side never got warm, and there was a constant trickling noise despite multiple attempts to bleed it.
A year later, the pipes in the loft were swapped over (and lagged) by the heatpump installers, and the rad now works perfectly.
OzzyR1 said:
Thinking about it, decent plumbers are booked up this time of year as people turn on their heating for the first time in 6 months and discover it's not working.
Might be they are just pricing high as they don't need a smaller job at the moment unless it's going to make a larger than average profit.
ETA: If you've got a "usual builder" have you asked him if he can put you in touch with any decent plumbers he has worked with who might give you a better quote?
Good point about timing, might be more availability next spring/early summer. We've decided to put off getting the hallway radiator swapped until after the hallway is gutted and redone. New rad will be bigger, so no problem doing the change after it's all decorated. Might be they are just pricing high as they don't need a smaller job at the moment unless it's going to make a larger than average profit.
ETA: If you've got a "usual builder" have you asked him if he can put you in touch with any decent plumbers he has worked with who might give you a better quote?
Edited by OzzyR1 on Friday 26th September 22:55
Both the regular builder and the decorator (actually an experienced house renovating builder who's relocated to the area and is concentrating on decorating as he starts up again) do their own plumbing. Neither will touch glycol though.
The reason we are using the "decorator" for the work is his attention to detail is much better than our regular builder.
Regular builder does good work, but final finish is "good enough at a glance". Decorator is slower, but flawless finish.
GasEngineer said:
Is any pipework alteration required for your job OP?
Upstairs rad should be a straight swap, same width.Hallway radiator is 300mm wider, so one pipe will need shortening, one extending. Horizontal pipes running just above the skirting. Probably best to replace both horizontal pipes back to the corner of the room, where they drop from the ceiling. About 3 metres of 15mm pipe in total.
Danns said:
I ve drained down my ashp so many times that it must be close to zero glycol now, has been this way for 3 years or so.
Lowest temps I ve seen are -11 here.
I did always intend to get it refilled to correct %, but then there s always another alteration around the corner on a house renovation.
No issues, make sure you have sufficient lagging externally and if really concerned a backup power supply for your CH pumps will keep things flowing in the event of a power outage.
Pretty sure glycol is worse at transferring heat than water too.
What do you did with the glycol that you drain out of your system?Lowest temps I ve seen are -11 here.
I did always intend to get it refilled to correct %, but then there s always another alteration around the corner on a house renovation.
No issues, make sure you have sufficient lagging externally and if really concerned a backup power supply for your CH pumps will keep things flowing in the event of a power outage.
Pretty sure glycol is worse at transferring heat than water too.
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