Cars crashing into shops

[zarjaz1991]

This seems to happen an awful lot these days, and there's just been another one not far from me.

They crashed into a Specsavers, but I'll not make any obvious jokes, because, well, obvious.

Three people injured as car crashes into Specsavers

Obviously we don't know the cause in this case, and I am aware sometimes it's the result of a medical episode, but commonly it's not that.

So my question is, medical episodes aside, how does this keep happening?

I've read that it's something to do with people buying an automatic car when they're used to manuals and getting the pedals confused.

Eh?

My cars are manual but every time I temporarily swap to an automatic, (most recently a couple of weeks ago with that wonderful CLA, yes I'm still in mourning from not having it any more), it's not any sort of problem. The pedals are the same, there just isn't a clutch. I swap back and forth from manual to automatic and back again, any time I like and it's NEVER a problem. Even if it is, how would "not being used to an automatic" result in driving into a shop? I just don't get it.

The only thing I can even vaguely think of is they've pressed the accelerator instead of the brake, but how would you even do that, unless you're a really, REALLY bad driver, in which case please take the bus and save lives.

Scott

[MikeM6]

I think some may just get flustered and confused with two pedals. It's hard to imagine when thinking about it, but if under pressure (either external or internal), people can behave strangely.

First time my wife drove an automatic, she could not get her head around not using her left foot to brake. It made no sense, as she would never have used her left foot to brake with a manual, but it took a while to compute.

Some pedal boxes are also oddly spaced, our Giuletta has the accelerator and brake too close together for comfort, so I can see how one could accidentally press both together in a rush.

It could also simply be drugs or drink that affect behaviour. Just not with it.

[normalbloke]

It’ll get more prolific as EV’s increase in number, with their ability to launch with a stab of thd incorrect pedal, and the subsequent brain freeze as to what to do to resolve the issue.

[Riley Blue]

zarjaz1991 said:

So my question is, medical episodes aside, how does this keep happening?

Because shops are built at the side of roads?

[zarjaz1991]

MikeM6 said:

I think some may just get flustered and confused with two pedals. It's hard to imagine when thinking about it, but if under pressure (either external or internal), people can behave strangely.

First time my wife drove an automatic, she could not get her head around not using her left foot to brake. It made no sense, as she would never have used her left foot to brake with a manual, but it took a while to compute.

I've heard people say this funnily enough. I confess I really can't get the logic, you just drive the same as normal but there's no clutch, nothing different ever occurred to me. I've never even "gone for the clutch" inadvertently, though I can certainly understand if people do that.(Nor, on the flip side, have I forgotten to press the clutch when back in a manual, which I've also heard people say, but again at least there is a logic).

I have to admit that if I *did* try to left foot brake, I'd probably stand the car on end. I know some people do it. I'm sure I could with practice. I'll let you know I plan to and everyone can keep a safe distance behind me Like about two miles.

MikeM6 said:

Some pedal boxes are also oddly spaced, our Giuletta has the accelerator and brake too close together for comfort, so I can see how one could accidentally press both together in a rush.

Never really thought about pressing both together. Depending on how hard I guess the car then revs loudly which would alert me but it's probably too late at that point. Perhaps that's what actually goes on and people instinctively press harder which makes it worse.

Edited by zarjaz1991 on Thursday 25th September 09:28

[zarjaz1991]

normalbloke said:

It ll get more prolific as EV s increase in number, with their ability to launch with a stab of the incorrect pedal, and the subsequent brain freeze as to what to do to resolve the issue.

Yeah. Not sure what car this was, I've seen a photo of a blue vehicle actually fully inside the job, but I couldn't work out what it was. Not electric though I don't think.



Scott

Edited by zarjaz1991 on Thursday 25th September 09:30

[ScoobyChris]

normalbloke said:

It ll get more prolific as EV s increase in number, with their ability to launch with a stab of thd incorrect pedal, and the subsequent brain freeze as to what to do to resolve the issue.

The party piece being they can also do it at the same rate forwards and backwards (although I think in reverse they might be speed limited by software)

Chris

[Cold]

Riley Blue said:

zarjaz1991 said:

So my question is, medical episodes aside, how does this keep happening?

Because shops are built at the side of roads?

That's a fair point, but I can't help but think crashes would be more prolific if the shops were built in the middle of the road.

[DonkeyApple]

zarjaz1991 said:

MikeM6 said:

I think some may just get flustered and confused with two pedals. It's hard to imagine when thinking about it, but if under pressure (either external or internal), people can behave strangely.

First time my wife drove an automatic, she could not get her head around not using her left foot to brake. It made no sense, as she would never have used her left foot to brake with a manual, but it took a while to compute.

I've heard people say this funnily enough. I confess I really can't get the logic, you just drive the same as normal but there's no clutch, nothing different ever occurred to me. I've never even "gone for the clutch" inadvertently, though I can certainly understand if people do that.(Nor, on the flip side, have I forgotten to press the clutch when back in a manual, which I've also heard people say, but again at least there is a logic).

I have to admit that if I *did* try to left foot brake, I'd probably stand the car on end. I know some people do it. I'm sure I could with practice. I'll let you know I plan to and everyone can keep a safe distance behind me Like about two miles.

MikeM6 said:

Some pedal boxes are also oddly spaced, our Giuletta has the accelerator and brake too close together for comfort, so I can see how one could accidentally press both together in a rush.

Never really thought about pressing both together. Depending on how hard I guess the car then revs loudly which would alert me but it's probably too late at that point. Perhaps that's what actually goes on and people instinctively press harder which makes it worse.

Edited by zarjaz1991 on Thursday 25th September 09:28

Probably the main risk to randomly deciding to start using the left foot for braking is that the person's right foot is still on or around the throttle.

You do learn left foot braking very quickly and easily though. It's certainly a basic skill for old cars whether manual or auto if they don't like idling or moving on tickover but I can't say it seems like a good general practice to be doing without good reason.

As for why people crash into shops the main reason will be that the shop happened to be there when something went wrong.

[alscar]

I imagine older age incidents probably account for a large percentage perhaps ?

[zarjaz1991]

DonkeyApple said:

Probably the main risk to randomly deciding to start using the left foot for braking is that the person's right foot is still on or around the throttle.

You do learn left foot braking very quickly and easily though. It's certainly a basic skill for old cars whether manual or auto if they don't like idling or moving on tickover but I can't say it seems like a good general practice to be doing without good reason

Yeah. It's something I'd one day like to learn (in a very large empty car park!) for no other reason than it's a skill I can learn , even though I will almost certainly never use it on the road. I'm developing a mental list of these types of things, where literally the only benefit is to be able say "because I can!". Which is then met with bemused looks, but that's ok, I'm well used to those.

Scott

[GeniusOfLove]

More old fools driving, more automatics, more powerful cars.

Lots of older people seem to be doing ok but that's because nothing unusual or exceptional happens, many of us have had the experience of a relative going into very sharp decline when they're moved, or have to go to hospital for a bit, or there is any break in their routine. Something unexpected or unusual happens and their diminished faculties cannot respond quickly enough.

Add into the fact that many people were as thick as mince before their age related decline and there you have it. Of course back in the day the car would stall if they started flapping around with the pedals but with an auto all you have to do is hold your foot in place or keep stamping on the throttle thinking it's the brake and specsavers window here you come.

[Riley Blue]

Cold said:

Riley Blue said:

zarjaz1991 said:

So my question is, medical episodes aside, how does this keep happening?

Because shops are built at the side of roads?

That's a fair point, but I can't help but think crashes would be more prolific if the shops were built in the middle of the road.

I suspect that if data existed for the items most crashed into shops wouldn't be in the top five, maybe even top 10. It's just that when it happens it appears in the media.

[WilliamWoollard]

Old folks in autos - they press the wrong pedal and can't figure out why the car isn't stopping, so mash it hard to the floor to make it stop and go screaming through the Co-Op window. It's been happening forever but with more and more autos around it's gonna get worse.

[BertBert]

DonkeyApple said:

You do learn left foot braking very quickly and easily though. It's certainly a basic skill for old cars whether manual or auto if they don't like idling or moving on tickover but I can't say it seems like a good general practice to be doing without good reason.

Are you sure? If you need brake and throttle at the same time, I think most use the right foot.

[remedy]

I'm not in the least bit surprised.
The way EVs launch from junctions on roundabouts is the equivalent of a Porsche or Ferrari on full send. But the drivers skill sets are now orders of magnitude lower.
I used to see a car to my right hesitant to leave it's junction and think that I have room to accelerate out. Nowadays I just wait for a bigger gap as the risk of an accident is so much higher.

[LennyM1984]

My kids go to school in a very small village where the only place to park at pick up/drop off is the pub car park.

This has happened twice now in the past year...



I genuinely just think that some people probably don't have the mental acuity to drive a car. It still blows my mind that my father (recently diagnosed with dementia) has been allowed to keep his driving license. I have been in the car with him and it is terrifying.

[DonkeyApple]

zarjaz1991 said:

Yeah. It's something I'd one day like to learn (in a very large empty car park!) for no other reason than it's a skill I can learn , even though I will almost certainly never use it on the road. I'm developing a mental list of these types of things, where literally the only benefit is to be able say "because I can!". Which is then met with bemused looks, but that's ok, I'm well used to those.

Scott

Yup. Absolutely no harm in learning to do it.

Most of us who are over 50 probably learned to drive and had first cars which still had chokes and still had a habit of stalling when coming off the throttle when cold so learned without even thinking about it how to momentarily use left foot braking to allow the right foot to just prevent the revs dropping below the tickover level.

It's not really relevant these days. Plus, most modern cars don't allow the throttle to work if the brake is in use. Arguably that's a sensible change in he grand scheme of things but it does mean that you can't put any warmth into cold brakes if desired, can't dry them off after going through a ford, can't put your brake lights on without braking and can't park so easily on a slope etc. None of these things are important in the grand scheme of things but just had mild benefits akin to a manual handbrake.

[DonkeyApple]

BertBert said:

DonkeyApple said:

You do learn left foot braking very quickly and easily though. It's certainly a basic skill for old cars whether manual or auto if they don't like idling or moving on tickover but I can't say it seems like a good general practice to be doing without good reason.

Are you sure? If you need brake and throttle at the same time, I think most use the right foot.

For the old heel and toe but for moving an old car around on the driveway where you need I use he throttle to maintain tickover rpm when cold or if the aircon is on etc you just use your right foot for the brake as rolling your left foot over while maintaining say 600 rpm isn't plausible.

[DonkeyApple]

LennyM1984 said:

My kids go to school in a very small village where the only place to park at pick up/drop off is the pub car park.

This has happened twice now in the past year...



I genuinely just think that some people probably don't have the mental acuity to drive a car. It still blows my mind that my father (recently diagnosed with dementia) has been allowed to keep his driving license. I have been in the car with him and it is terrifying.

It doesn't help that the warning sticker has been placed where the driver can't see it.