Paid £35 to councilparking dept. Retrospective appeal?
Discussion
I received a pcn letter for double yellow line parking.
No ticket issued as far as I knew and the £70 demand about 6 weeks later.
Photo evidence supplied was of my vehicle on double yellows at 10.51am
I appealed on the basis that my vehicle (a van) wasn't parked but was being used to collect items from a letting office. The items had to be processed and signed out by a staff member and it took an estimated 5-10minutes.
The reply was to uphold the warden's decision as the ticket was "issued" at 11.02am and therefore the vehicle had been standing longer than the 10 minutes allowed for loading purposes.
There were no photos of the vehicle at 11.02 and none of the ticket attached to the van.
There was a written note added to the review decision from the warden: "Driver came out of the betting office and snatched ticket from me and went back into the betting office, ticket issued direct to driver".
The reviewing officer did reduce the fine from £70 down to £35 if paid within the next 28 days, so I paid it.
Tbh, my thoughts were the warden forgot/didn't get around to attach the ticket and take the second set of
photos and came up with this cock and bull explanation.
Anyhow, for an easy life I coughed up the £35, as I originally appealed on the basis that my vehicle was being used for loading, rather than lack of ticket and lack of evidence of ticket issued.
However, last night it entered my brain to look up my google map timeline. Hey presto, at 11.02 I was at a location 9 minutes drive away. It shows me at the letting office for 6 minutes, between 10.47- 10.53. Supplied evidence time of photos were all 10.51.
I feel not just relieved of £35 hard earned, but positively scammed by the council parking department.
I know it's only £35 (which is why I coughed up originally), but all the time I had proof of my movements...I guess I just believed I must have been there for 11 minutes because I was told so by official pcns etc.
Is it too late to appeal this? Who do I go to?
No ticket issued as far as I knew and the £70 demand about 6 weeks later.
Photo evidence supplied was of my vehicle on double yellows at 10.51am
I appealed on the basis that my vehicle (a van) wasn't parked but was being used to collect items from a letting office. The items had to be processed and signed out by a staff member and it took an estimated 5-10minutes.
The reply was to uphold the warden's decision as the ticket was "issued" at 11.02am and therefore the vehicle had been standing longer than the 10 minutes allowed for loading purposes.
There were no photos of the vehicle at 11.02 and none of the ticket attached to the van.
There was a written note added to the review decision from the warden: "Driver came out of the betting office and snatched ticket from me and went back into the betting office, ticket issued direct to driver".
The reviewing officer did reduce the fine from £70 down to £35 if paid within the next 28 days, so I paid it.
Tbh, my thoughts were the warden forgot/didn't get around to attach the ticket and take the second set of
photos and came up with this cock and bull explanation.
Anyhow, for an easy life I coughed up the £35, as I originally appealed on the basis that my vehicle was being used for loading, rather than lack of ticket and lack of evidence of ticket issued.
However, last night it entered my brain to look up my google map timeline. Hey presto, at 11.02 I was at a location 9 minutes drive away. It shows me at the letting office for 6 minutes, between 10.47- 10.53. Supplied evidence time of photos were all 10.51.
I feel not just relieved of £35 hard earned, but positively scammed by the council parking department.
I know it's only £35 (which is why I coughed up originally), but all the time I had proof of my movements...I guess I just believed I must have been there for 11 minutes because I was told so by official pcns etc.
Is it too late to appeal this? Who do I go to?
Edited by courty on Tuesday 23 September 08:45
If you were collecting items from a business you should have some paperwork from the company identifying the goods, etc that would prove you were loading, etc.
This should prove what you were doing, no company would hand over goods without a paper trail.
Oh and did you snatch the ticket from the parking warden?
This should prove what you were doing, no company would hand over goods without a paper trail.
Oh and did you snatch the ticket from the parking warden?
Parked on double yellow lines adjacent to a junction.
Rather than accept it was bad parking the OP claims he has been “positively scammed”.
Easy to see why there are so many entries in the cr@p parking thread 🙂
Looking on google streetview and there is another van parked outside the bookies, seems a popular spot!
Rather than accept it was bad parking the OP claims he has been “positively scammed”.
Easy to see why there are so many entries in the cr@p parking thread 🙂
Looking on google streetview and there is another van parked outside the bookies, seems a popular spot!
Rough101 said:
What did the signs say and were there the single or double slashes over the kerb?
You didn t seem to be continuously offloading
No, there are no loading restrictions. Double yellows.You didn t seem to be continuously offloading
The van was standing for 6 minutes, from 1047-1053.
The warden was there at 10.51.
The ticket reviewer said I was standing for 11 minutes, hence they will not rescind the ticket as it's >10 minutes. I have proof I was there for 6 minutes.
KungFuPanda said:
Were you in the bookies or not? Why would the traffic warden make that up?
I was not in the bookies, have a look at the google timeline. I was in Leydon lettings, collecting items necessary for their business, which needed to be located and signed out, hence 6 minutes.As to why a warden may make that up...
?? Your guess as good as mine.
I took it at face value, but now I know I was 9 minutes drive away at 11.02 as to when the ticket was issued, if he did issue it, it was a different van, there is no photographic evidence of any van there at 11.02...
It certainly explains why no ticket was left on the screen as I was gone 2 minutes after thezwareen took the initial photographs.
Inbox said:
If you were collecting items from a business you should have some paperwork from the company identifying the goods, etc that would prove you were loading, etc.
This should prove what you were doing, no company would hand over goods without a paper trail.
Oh and did you snatch the ticket from the parking warden?
Yes, I can get this from the office if need be.This should prove what you were doing, no company would hand over goods without a paper trail.
Oh and did you snatch the ticket from the parking warden?
No I didn't see the warden.
Sebring440 said:
You're saying "letting office", the council is saying "betting office" which is it? Were you in the betting office?
The letting office is next to the betting shop.Leydon Lettings (see the google timeline).
Coral Betting is next door.
Here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/L6BECPnoKqVdGjfPA?g_st=ac
My question again.
I paid the £35 fine.
I would like to appeal because I believe the ticket was never issued, or if it was, I was 9 minutes drive away.
I can no longer appeal through the council, is there another way to fight this?
It's not about £35. If I was there for 11 minutes, and some random member of the public snatched the ricket from the warden at 11.02 then fair enough...this is why I paid it.
But last night I thought to look at my google timeline. I was gone at 10.53. 9 minutes before the ticket was issued.
This is why I think it is bad practice by the council. Yes, a scam, as a ticket wasn't issued to me at 11.02 as I was at Neals Place Farm, 3 miles and 9 minutes drive away, but I received a £70 demand weeks later. I appealled that the vehicle wasn't parked, but was being used for loading purposes. I have always been of the understanding that vehicles in use can stand for short periods of time in restricted parking zones.
I paid the £35 fine.
I would like to appeal because I believe the ticket was never issued, or if it was, I was 9 minutes drive away.
I can no longer appeal through the council, is there another way to fight this?
It's not about £35. If I was there for 11 minutes, and some random member of the public snatched the ricket from the warden at 11.02 then fair enough...this is why I paid it.
But last night I thought to look at my google timeline. I was gone at 10.53. 9 minutes before the ticket was issued.
This is why I think it is bad practice by the council. Yes, a scam, as a ticket wasn't issued to me at 11.02 as I was at Neals Place Farm, 3 miles and 9 minutes drive away, but I received a £70 demand weeks later. I appealled that the vehicle wasn't parked, but was being used for loading purposes. I have always been of the understanding that vehicles in use can stand for short periods of time in restricted parking zones.
I'm not sure that a google timeline would be taken as supporting evidence for an appeal. This is because the times can be edited to whatever times you choose.
The time shown from the handheld that issued the PCN is likely to be accurate and if the council has set a 10 minute delay before the PCN can be issued this is likely to be built into the software so even if they wanted to, the PCN could not be issued before the ten minutes is up. So regardless of the actual times - and of course they should be accutate, you were not seen loading/unloading in that 10 minute period.
Regading the PCN being snatched from the CEO, well that might not have been you, perhaps someone took it thinking they were doing you a favour. So the council then had to get the registered keeper details from the DVLA hence the delay and higher rate charged.
On appeal this was reduced to the lower rate which seems fair, in my opinion I think you should accept th fine levied and move on.
The time shown from the handheld that issued the PCN is likely to be accurate and if the council has set a 10 minute delay before the PCN can be issued this is likely to be built into the software so even if they wanted to, the PCN could not be issued before the ten minutes is up. So regardless of the actual times - and of course they should be accutate, you were not seen loading/unloading in that 10 minute period.
Regading the PCN being snatched from the CEO, well that might not have been you, perhaps someone took it thinking they were doing you a favour. So the council then had to get the registered keeper details from the DVLA hence the delay and higher rate charged.
On appeal this was reduced to the lower rate which seems fair, in my opinion I think you should accept th fine levied and move on.
OP, you have paid a reduced fine of £35. I know that it is annoying, but if I was in your position, I wouldn’t want to spend any more of my time and effort trying to appeal. Just let it go, as it isn’t worth the added stress. If you happen to get caught again, you know how to challenge it before you end up paying. 
You could try contacting one of the councilors for Canterbury City Council - either your councilor if you live in one of the wards covered by Canterbury City Council, or the councilor responsible for parking (there's one listed as being responsible for transport on the website - if he's not responsible he'll know who is).
If you tell him that you're concerned that there's a traffic warden who is fabricating evidence in order to issue tickets, he might take an interest and look into the matter for you.
If you tell him that you're concerned that there's a traffic warden who is fabricating evidence in order to issue tickets, he might take an interest and look into the matter for you.
deepy said:
I'm not sure that a google timeline would be taken as supporting evidence for an appeal. This is because the times can be edited to whatever times you choose.
The time shown from the handheld that issued the PCN is likely to be accurate and if the council has set a 10 minute delay before the PCN can be issued this is likely to be built into the software so even if they wanted to, the PCN could not be issued before the ten minutes is up. So regardless of the actual times - and of course they should be accutate, you were not seen loading/unloading in that 10 minute period.
Regading the PCN being snatched from the CEO, well that might not have been you, perhaps someone took it thinking they were doing you a favour. So the council then had to get the registered keeper details from the DVLA hence the delay and higher rate charged.
On appeal this was reduced to the lower rate which seems fair, in my opinion I think you should accept th fine levied and move on.
Ah right, I had no idea that timelines could be edited. In that case thank you for your post and the info. I settled it originally on the basis that I must have been 11 minutes in the office (staff had trouble locating some items). It was only when I realised I had only onsite for 6 minutes and was miles away at 11.02 that I felt some process had been abused by the council. Hence thinking that fun and games were being done by them, or at least by the warden on that occasion.The time shown from the handheld that issued the PCN is likely to be accurate and if the council has set a 10 minute delay before the PCN can be issued this is likely to be built into the software so even if they wanted to, the PCN could not be issued before the ten minutes is up. So regardless of the actual times - and of course they should be accutate, you were not seen loading/unloading in that 10 minute period.
Regading the PCN being snatched from the CEO, well that might not have been you, perhaps someone took it thinking they were doing you a favour. So the council then had to get the registered keeper details from the DVLA hence the delay and higher rate charged.
On appeal this was reduced to the lower rate which seems fair, in my opinion I think you should accept th fine levied and move on.
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