Russian 'Probing' Flights
Discussion
There was a bit on the news a moment ago about Russians flying MiG-31s into NATO airspace and I had to explain to my wife that this wasn't a new thing at all. She asked how long they'd been doing it for and I realised I didn't know – they've always been at it and I just took it for granted, remembering photos of Lightnings, F4s etc formating on Bears and Bisons. So I Googled to find out when and how these flights started and just got a load of AI b
ks saying they had started in 2005 
So when did these incursions start, and what aircraft (if any) did we use to intercept them before the Lightnings?
ks saying they had started in 2005 So when did these incursions start, and what aircraft (if any) did we use to intercept them before the Lightnings?
Currently, its never been or is very very very rare into our actual airspace, but into our area of interest which is a little different but this is easily 3 times a year for the last 15 years in my experience.
last weeks was a little different in that it was actually into a NATO countries airspace
last weeks was a little different in that it was actually into a NATO countries airspace
GliderRider said:
A chap down the road from me flew Canberras in the 50s & 60s. On one of his probing flights he had a meeting with a Mig-17, resulting in him spending several months in hospital and the remains of his navigator being removed from the aircraft with a fire hose.
Shot down by a Mig17 during the cold war? Where did that happen?As for the current incursions, the Russians are happy to deny all knowledge of them, as they always do about everything. I wonder what story they'd invent if we shot one of them down?
Yertis said:
There was a bit on the news a moment ago about Russians flying MiG-31s into NATO airspace and I had to explain to my wife that this wasn't a new thing at all. She asked how long they'd been doing it for and I realised I didn't know they've always been at it and I just took it for granted, remembering photos of Lightnings, F4s etc formating on Bears and Bisons. So I Googled to find out when and how these flights started and just got a load of AI bks saying they had started in 2005
So when did these incursions start, and what aircraft (if any) did we use to intercept them before the Lightnings?
I think that there is a material difference between the recent incursion by MiG-31s into Estonian airspace and the Russian Tu-95 Bears being intercepted by the RAF.ks saying they had started in 2005 So when did these incursions start, and what aircraft (if any) did we use to intercept them before the Lightnings?
The RAF interceptions are in international airspace rather than UK airspace. The Tu-95s might be heading towards UK airspace but by intercepting them the RAF are demonstrating that if the Russians continue on that flightpath then they will be shot down before they can attack any targets.
The incursion into Estonian airspace means that Russian aircraft entered unchallenged, either undetected or travelling fast enough to evade any interception until after they had exited Estonian airspace.
JSP440 said:
Currently, its never been or is very very very rare into our actual airspace, but into our area of interest which is a little different but this is easily 3 times a year for the last 15 years in my experience.
last weeks was a little different in that it was actually into a NATO countries airspace
Your username triggers a deep trauma last weeks was a little different in that it was actually into a NATO countries airspace
It has been going on for decades in all sorts if airspace, the Finns and Swedes were almost used to it really. It was good practice and in some times there was some friendly banter between crews during these short exchanges. It is news now because of Ukraine. and the media bias of hatred towards Russia. (with justification clearly)
What is interesting is to know if we ever did it to them? The planes we would have used to do this in the early days were all cancelled like the TSR2, but stuff like Canberra, and maybe later recce Tornado must have been intercepted in close vicinity to Russia or its neighbours at times?
What is interesting is to know if we ever did it to them? The planes we would have used to do this in the early days were all cancelled like the TSR2, but stuff like Canberra, and maybe later recce Tornado must have been intercepted in close vicinity to Russia or its neighbours at times?
bergclimber34 said:
It has been going on for decades in all sorts if airspace, the Finns and Swedes were almost used to it really. It was good practice and in some times there was some friendly banter between crews during these short exchanges. It is news now because of Ukraine. and the media bias of hatred towards Russia. (with justification clearly)
This really isn't true. There is a big difference between flying close to someone else's airspace without violating it and actually flying into it and tooling around for a while. Violations are exceptionally rare and dangerous as Russia found out when Turkey summarily shot down a Su-24 10 years ago that strayed into its airspace for a matter of seconds.I heard one of the NATO bigwigs being interviewed yesterday morning and he was asked why they hadn't engaged the MIGs over Estonia, he said that the MIGs were armed with air-to-air missiles so the decision was made not to shoot them down but if they had been armed with ground attack missiles then it would have been a whole different threat/intention so thay would have then been engaged.
The RAF flew spy missions over Russia in 1951-54, initially with American B45 aircraft.
On the second mission in 1952, they were engaged by Russian anti aircraft fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-45_...
On the second mission in 1952, they were engaged by Russian anti aircraft fire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-45_...
They tend to fly into the UK's air defence region, which means it's the UK's responsibility to identify and monitor them. Through the 70s and 80s it happened about once a week, usually with TU95s or variants thereof. I believe they stopped for a while after the USSR imploded. I don't know when they started, possibly when the TU95 first entered service.
No USSR or Russian aircraft has been shot down in NATO airspace (apart from the recent Turkey and Poland incidents) as far as I know. The US have lost at least one C130 (and of course a U2), and a B47 once struggled back into a UK base with damage from MIG gunfire. The RAF have had at least one Canberra damaged in or near USSR airspace, and a Lincoln shot down on the edge of the Berlin corridor.
No USSR or Russian aircraft has been shot down in NATO airspace (apart from the recent Turkey and Poland incidents) as far as I know. The US have lost at least one C130 (and of course a U2), and a B47 once struggled back into a UK base with damage from MIG gunfire. The RAF have had at least one Canberra damaged in or near USSR airspace, and a Lincoln shot down on the edge of the Berlin corridor.
Tu-95 and M-4 have both been photographed with Lightnings over the North Sea in the late 1960s, but I can't find any reference to these kinds of encounter before then. Not much about it on the web. Google AI doesn't seem to know what to make of my queries and throws up pictures of bears and bisons.
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