best TV for £3k (max!)
Discussion
a couple of years ago, I "...did my own research..." (as the saying goes) and bought a Panasonic LZ2000 and have, in the main, been quite happy with it. That said, I'm not convinced by its sonic performance (built-in soundbar) which, occasionally (and for no reason I can see), seems to dip into surround/wide sound (for want of a better expression) and then back to normal. It's not enough to make me bin the TV but now that I'm at the point of getting a replacement for a different TV (old pioneer plasma) I'm loath to:
- get another LZ (or up-to-date equivalent)
- get an expensive (to me) piece of kit that I'll not be 100% happy with
with the above in mind, there are a few questions for the PH hivemind:
- I'm reasonably impressed with the 65" Sony Bravia 8ii (good picture and, apparently, very good sound), what would you choose instead?
- is the whole 'black friday' thing worth waiting for?
- as an adendum to this if I get the Sony is it worth getting the Sony Theatre U Wireless Neckband a worthwhile addition (meaning Mrs DG can watch something which I'm not bothered about and vice-versa)?
- usage will be mainly film/tv series. Sport will be a tiny proportion (rugby 6 Nations/autumn internationals/summer tours)
- source will be Sky smart TV apps (Netflix/Amazon/Apple/Paramount)
- no gaming usage at all
I've likely got a huge amount of extra questions I've forgotten to ask but that'll come later
- get another LZ (or up-to-date equivalent)
- get an expensive (to me) piece of kit that I'll not be 100% happy with
with the above in mind, there are a few questions for the PH hivemind:
- I'm reasonably impressed with the 65" Sony Bravia 8ii (good picture and, apparently, very good sound), what would you choose instead?
- is the whole 'black friday' thing worth waiting for?
- as an adendum to this if I get the Sony is it worth getting the Sony Theatre U Wireless Neckband a worthwhile addition (meaning Mrs DG can watch something which I'm not bothered about and vice-versa)?
- usage will be mainly film/tv series. Sport will be a tiny proportion (rugby 6 Nations/autumn internationals/summer tours)
- source will be Sky smart TV apps (Netflix/Amazon/Apple/Paramount)
- no gaming usage at all
I've likely got a huge amount of extra questions I've forgotten to ask but that'll come later
I m in a similar boat at the moment being in the market for a new 65inch.
I ve narrowed it down to the LGG5, Sony Bravia 8ii and the Samsung S95F.
I went to see all those in Curry s last week as I was in the vicinity and, acknowledging that that s probably not the best place to view, they all looked superb to me.
Although most of my watching will be evening films and streaming, I do have a bright room and so the anti glare capabilities of the Samsung and LG along with their higher brightness levels may swing it for me.
This may be worth a read: https://www.techradar.com/televisions/i-tested-lg-...
I ve narrowed it down to the LGG5, Sony Bravia 8ii and the Samsung S95F.
I went to see all those in Curry s last week as I was in the vicinity and, acknowledging that that s probably not the best place to view, they all looked superb to me.
Although most of my watching will be evening films and streaming, I do have a bright room and so the anti glare capabilities of the Samsung and LG along with their higher brightness levels may swing it for me.
This may be worth a read: https://www.techradar.com/televisions/i-tested-lg-...
DodgyGeezer said:
a couple of years ago, I "...did my own research..." (as the saying goes) and bought a Panasonic LZ2000
Some of the cost of the TV ws obviously the built in Technics speaker, whereas the LZ1500 was the same TV without the speaker. I was tempted my the speaker option but instead bought the 1500 (albeit the JZ series) and a Sonos Beam Soundbar. If your next TV doesn't need such a speaker then you can obviously deduct that cost.I plan to change mine next year and if I was doing so today I'd buy the LG G5, bt I;ll wait and see what TV's are available when the time comes
avforums is a good forum to seek advice on TV's.
DodgyGeezer said:
- I'm reasonably impressed with the 65" Sony Bravia 8ii (good picture and, apparently, very good sound), what would you choose instead?
I have the 55", replacing a Bravia 8 Mk 1It is impressive. The sound through the screen isn't as good as our first 4K Sony that had mahoosive speakers on both ends, making that set very wide, but it's amazing that through-the-screen sound works as well as it does
Compared with the Mark 1, it's slightly disappointing that it doesn't come with the dedicated camera port and camera that could optimise the sound for your position in the room (although you can buy a USB camera instead, but the placement isn't as neat). The Mk 2 blacks are certainly deeper. The Mark 2 also comes with a plastic second remote, instead of the aluminium remote of the Mark 1 (which I've kept). Other than that, it's definitely a worthwhile upgrade to a great TV
The reason I buy Sony's is that they have the Google Store built in, not some vendor-modified version, and I can watch my European TV subscriptions using Android apps
Buying any flat screen TV for its sound is kind of like buying a two-seat sportscar for its luggage carrying capacity. However, unlike cars, there is no estate or SUV option.
If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
Lucid_AV said:
Buying any flat screen TV for its sound is kind of like buying a two-seat sportscar for its luggage carrying capacity. However, unlike cars, there is no estate or SUV option.
If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
Oh I'm fully onboard with the sound issue, I've currently got a Denon home-cinema amp with KEF eggs and a powered sub (albeit with interference issues which I have to track down If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
) it's just nice to have a reasonable sounding back-up DodgyGeezer said:
Oh I'm fully onboard with the sound issue, I've currently got a Denon home-cinema amp with KEF eggs and a powered sub (albeit with interference issues which I have to track down ) it's just nice to have a reasonable sounding back-up
Once you've ruled out a bad solder connection at a plug (if they're not compression-fit), or a dodgy rotary pot for the crossover control, then noise from a sub is generally one of three things: failing isolation capacitors between the AC and the DC supply, poorly-shielded coax cable picking up EMI interference, or finally, a ground loop issue. ) it's just nice to have a reasonable sounding back-up So many folks panic about ground loops. It sounds all mysterious, like some kind of voodoo curse. In reality, it's nothing more than a difference in the ground voltages between two devices. Diagnosing it can be as simple as bringing the sub to the AVR and plugging them both into the same supply point in the room. If there's no hum, start plugging in the rest of the devices in the room, one-by-one, until you find the culprit. Often it's a dirty power supply, the switch-mode type. At this point, you've probably found your EMI source, and the electrical noise from it is being picked up through the inadequate shielding of the sub lead. Buy better sub lead and also replace the bad PSU.
Lucid_AV said:
Buying any flat screen TV for its sound is kind of like buying a two-seat sportscar for its luggage carrying capacity. However, unlike cars, there is no estate or SUV option.
If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
I agree with everything you have said. The step up from built in speakers to sound bar is massive and seems to be getting bigger as TV manufacturers barely put in 1990’s era Pc speakers. I had an LG LED TV for 10 years and always used the built in speakers. I bought an LG OLED recently and the sound was that bad I immediately bought a sound bar. If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
However, I would change from decent to acceptable though. I have a Sonos arc ultra that comes with all sorts of bold claims. 9.1.4 is one of them.
It’s a good sound bar.
It isn’t the “Key to next-level immersion”
There’s sales on at Sonos right now and if you have older Sonos they give 15-30% discounts depending how how terrible your experience has been with them. Sonos isn’t my recommendation due to so many issues with their App. But, the Arc Ultra is considered one of the better sound bars and you can run it as a sound bar and not include it in their eco system.
Lucid_AV said:
DodgyGeezer said:
Oh I'm fully onboard with the sound issue, I've currently got a Denon home-cinema amp with KEF eggs and a powered sub (albeit with interference issues which I have to track down ) it's just nice to have a reasonable sounding back-up
Once you've ruled out a bad solder connection at a plug (if they're not compression-fit), or a dodgy rotary pot for the crossover control, then noise from a sub is generally one of three things: failing isolation capacitors between the AC and the DC supply, poorly-shielded coax cable picking up EMI interference, or finally, a ground loop issue. ) it's just nice to have a reasonable sounding back-up So many folks panic about ground loops. It sounds all mysterious, like some kind of voodoo curse. In reality, it's nothing more than a difference in the ground voltages between two devices. Diagnosing it can be as simple as bringing the sub to the AVR and plugging them both into the same supply point in the room. If there's no hum, start plugging in the rest of the devices in the room, one-by-one, until you find the culprit. Often it's a dirty power supply, the switch-mode type. At this point, you've probably found your EMI source, and the electrical noise from it is being picked up through the inadequate shielding of the sub lead. Buy better sub lead and also replace the bad PSU.
I meant the speakers get interference - thought i guess the process is the same for them. I've been kazy until now as pulling the amp out (& then subsequently putting it back) is a bit of a ballache Buuuut I'll have to do it Lucid_AV said:
If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system.
A bit of a drift… but on another thread a couple of years ago you (I’m sure it was you) recommended a Denon DHT-S517 Soundbar with Wireless Subwoofer as a good soundbar at the price. I didn’t comment on the thread and am out of my depth on AV stuff but I did buy the soundbar and, for my purposes and ears, it was fantastic, so thanks. I’m now looking for something similar (or the same) for another big 100 inch tv in another room. Any reason not to just get the same again?
With regards to waiting for Black Friday, it's not really necessary. Any of the major retailers will price match to Black Friday price if you buy before. There are only really deals to be had if you aren't fussed about a particular brand or model and just want a "55 inch TV" for example.
h0b0 said:
I agree with everything you have said. The step up from built in speakers to sound bar is massive and seems to be getting bigger as TV manufacturers barely put in 1990 s era Pc speakers. I had an LG LED TV for 10 years and always used the built in speakers. I bought an LG OLED recently and the sound was that bad I immediately bought a sound bar.
However, I would change from decent to acceptable though. I have a Sonos arc ultra that comes with all sorts of bold claims. 9.1.4 is one of them.
It s a good sound bar.
It isn t the Key to next-level immersion
There s sales on at Sonos right now and if you have older Sonos they give 15-30% discounts depending how how terrible your experience has been with them. Sonos isn t my recommendation due to so many issues with their App. But, the Arc Ultra is considered one of the better sound bars and you can run it as a sound bar and not include it in their eco system.
The dictionary definition of decent is "of an acceptable standard; satisfactory."However, I would change from decent to acceptable though. I have a Sonos arc ultra that comes with all sorts of bold claims. 9.1.4 is one of them.
It s a good sound bar.
It isn t the Key to next-level immersion
There s sales on at Sonos right now and if you have older Sonos they give 15-30% discounts depending how how terrible your experience has been with them. Sonos isn t my recommendation due to so many issues with their App. But, the Arc Ultra is considered one of the better sound bars and you can run it as a sound bar and not include it in their eco system.
There's bad, poor, decent, good, great, and outstanding. I didn't use decent to mean good or great.
DodgyGeezer said:
Apologies Lucid, badly written on my part I meant the speakers get interference - thought i guess the process is the same for them. I've been kazy until now as pulling the amp out (& then subsequently putting it back) is a bit of a ballache Buuuut I'll have to do it
No worries. Odd that the Egg speakers are picking up interference though. The higher voltage and current required relative to unbalanced line level usually makes speakers and speaker cables immune to EMI/RFI unless it's in some exceptional situation. Speakers need current to make the drivers move. Radiated interference doesn't provide enough of that. The signal has to be amplified quite a lot before it's possible for passive speakers to make sound. I meant the speakers get interference - thought i guess the process is the same for them. I've been kazy until now as pulling the amp out (& then subsequently putting it back) is a bit of a ballache Buuuut I'll have to do it You haven't bought shielded speaker cable thinking that it would make things better, have you? Do you happen to live very close to an AM radio transmitter?
Things I would look for:
- interference getting in to the amp from source cabling
- EMI being picked up by the preamp circuits from bad PSUs close by
- Dying output capacitors in an older AVR
- Dying isolation capacitors between the AC and DC sides of the AVR's power supply
Surely you don't need to spend £3k on a 65inch TV? Are they not all basically pretty good (from the big names at least) for around half that price (max)?
Can you really tell the difference? I mean, really? Maybe in a vacuum in space with all the lighting perfect but in an average home they are all pretty good really.
Can you really tell the difference? I mean, really? Maybe in a vacuum in space with all the lighting perfect but in an average home they are all pretty good really.
renmure said:
A bit of a drift but on another thread a couple of years ago you (I m sure it was you) recommended a Denon DHT-S517 Soundbar with Wireless Subwoofer as a good soundbar at the price. I didn t comment on the thread and am out of my depth on AV stuff but I did buy the soundbar and, for my purposes and ears, it was fantastic, so thanks.
I m now looking for something similar (or the same) for another big 100 inch tv in another room. Any reason not to just get the same again?
I'm glad that worked out for you. IIRC, the Denon was under £300 at the time, so the price hasn't changed much over the years which is encouraging. 100" is a big telly. I take it that the room is quite large, too? The Denon is a good product. My only reservation is that the bass might struggle in a larger room. Of course, having the soundbar there means you could try it with the larger set to see (hear) how it holds up. I m now looking for something similar (or the same) for another big 100 inch tv in another room. Any reason not to just get the same again?
Have you had a read of the reviews on the rtings website? landing page
They come at reviews from different angles so it's possible to focus on sounbars by price, or features, brand etc.
Lucid_AV said:
Buying any flat screen TV for its sound is kind of like buying a two-seat sportscar for its luggage carrying capacity. However, unlike cars, there is no estate or SUV option.
If you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
agreedIf you want decent sound, the answer is a sound bar or a proper surround system. Forget your built-in sound bars. They're subject to many of the same space compromises as a normal flat screen. Buying custom-shaped luggage that fits the trunk space doesn't make the trunk any bigger. Sony's idea of using the screen as an NXT speaker is smart, but still limited by how small it can flex (X-max), so bass is always going to be limited unless they put woofers in the TV chassis.
I'd suggest buying a TV for its picture performance, then adding a sound bar to make a better job of audio. There's a whole range of sound bar reviews on the rtings website. Their summaries come at it from a load of different directions, so you can pick your angle. e.g. It could be based on price band, or surround capabilities, or dialogue as a priority, or music if that's your bag. rtings sound bar page
Samsung HW-Q990F (or the previous version) is my base acceptable level for a sound bar, can often be bought half price in sales etc. (like now at amazon lol)
https://www.rtings.com/soundbar/reviews/best/sound...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0F6VRWRRQ?smid=A2020V...
that and an apple TV for its massive processing power, general high PQ and SQ and ZERO adverts or popups
pistonheadforum said:
Surely you don't need to spend £3k on a 65inch TV? Are they not all basically pretty good (from the big names at least) for around half that price (max)?
Can you really tell the difference? I mean, really? Maybe in a vacuum in space with all the lighting perfect but in an average home they are all pretty good really.
You'd be surprised. I was in JL buying a washer for my son and his GF. The TVs weren't far away, so I stopped by for a look. Whilst they were all colourful, it was certainly possible to tell the difference in brightness between the various levels of OLED sets. The quantum dot sets definitely had the edge. If you know what you're looking for, motion, naturalness, and picture depth are different too once you et the sets off store demo mode. Can you really tell the difference? I mean, really? Maybe in a vacuum in space with all the lighting perfect but in an average home they are all pretty good really.
The other factor is support for the various picture and sound formats. Samsung doesn't support Dolby Vision. LG doesn't do HDR10+. Both brands are patchy when it comes to anything outside of Dolby DD / True HD. You have to go to Sony, Panasonic, HiSense, TCL if you want the full gamut of audio formats. Granted, not everyone is gaming through their TV to an eARC-capable soundbar or surround system, but for those that are then it is a consideration. Everyone's mileage is different though.
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