What is the "greatest" car of the last 50 years?
Discussion
OK, this has probably been done before and there is an element of subjectivity to it, so we’re never going to have a definitive answer/complete consensus but what in your opinion by your own criteria is the greatest car of the last 50 years? I think this has been done before but without the 50 year limit, so the most culturally significant cars have tended to dominate: Mini, Beetle, 2CV, Land Rover etc, even if objectively, they are not the greatest but they had a big impact on the motoring landscape. As we’re talking broadly cars that were still being manufactured in the 1980s and beyond here (the 50 year limit allows cars that were being produced at the end of the 1970s to creep in), I think that objectively they should be good as the competition was so much stiffer by then. Technically, you could still pick the Mini/2CV/Beetle/Land Rover etc, as they were still being produced in that time period but by this time they were 20+ year old designs and newer cars had moved the game on considerably.
Having thought about this carefully, the following could all reasonably lay claim to the title: Peugeot 205, mk7 Golf, E39 5-Series. They were all best in class for most of if not all of their lifetimes and there wasn’t really a bad version of any of them.
Cars like the original Lexus LS400, 80 Series Toyota Land Cruiser, Honda NSX and Nissan GTR also came along in that time period and shook up the luxury/supercar establishment proving that a no-compromise approach didn’t have to cost the earth and the original Lotus Elise and Ferrari 458 Italia both demonstrated technical excellence and re-established their respective brands in the modern age.
But for me, money no object, there is only one answer, the McLaren F1. Sure, the lights and brakes are probably a bit crap by modern standards and the Veyron came along and smashed its record as the fastest production car in the world but it took double the power, 4 turbos, a twin clutch transmission, 4WD, twice the heft, the corporate might of the Volkswagen group and another 13 years to do so. I don’t know what the development budget was for the McLaren F1 but I’m sure that even inflation adjusted, the development budget for the Bugatti Veyron was multiples higher.
At the time, I thought the McLaren F1 a little understated compared to a Ferrari/Lamborghini but now it looks perfect to my eyes, compact, understated and purposeful. Add in one of the greatest and best-sounding V12 engines ever made, a mid-engined RWD layout, flyweight, 6 speed manual transmission and granted I have never been fortunate enough to experience one but supposedly it was even comfortable, rode well and had ample luggage space. Admittedly, its value today is a bit of a barrier to its usability but for my last tank of petrol, it’s a winner every time and I don’t even have to choose which one of my children to take with me!
Accepting that a McLaren F1 doesn’t cover all the bases though, for everything else there’s the L322 Range Rover. The original “classic” may be an iconic design but the “Classic”/P38 were a bit shonkily built and the L405/current Range Rover may be objectively better but a bit too posh to abuse. The L322 is the perfect blend between luxury and utility, probably the most capable vehicle that Land Rover made at the time and available with the excellent V8 diesel engine. It was probably the first Range Rover that you would buy over an S-Class/7-Series/A8/XJ as a credible luxury car too and now probably outsells those cars combined. Having said that, the potential bork factor still scares me from owning one! They’re perfectly affordable to buy but I don’t have enough of a rainy day fund left in the bank to keep it running.
So, providing some justification, what in your opinion is the “greatest” ie not necessarily the best (or your favourite) car of the last 50 years?
Having thought about this carefully, the following could all reasonably lay claim to the title: Peugeot 205, mk7 Golf, E39 5-Series. They were all best in class for most of if not all of their lifetimes and there wasn’t really a bad version of any of them.
Cars like the original Lexus LS400, 80 Series Toyota Land Cruiser, Honda NSX and Nissan GTR also came along in that time period and shook up the luxury/supercar establishment proving that a no-compromise approach didn’t have to cost the earth and the original Lotus Elise and Ferrari 458 Italia both demonstrated technical excellence and re-established their respective brands in the modern age.
But for me, money no object, there is only one answer, the McLaren F1. Sure, the lights and brakes are probably a bit crap by modern standards and the Veyron came along and smashed its record as the fastest production car in the world but it took double the power, 4 turbos, a twin clutch transmission, 4WD, twice the heft, the corporate might of the Volkswagen group and another 13 years to do so. I don’t know what the development budget was for the McLaren F1 but I’m sure that even inflation adjusted, the development budget for the Bugatti Veyron was multiples higher.
At the time, I thought the McLaren F1 a little understated compared to a Ferrari/Lamborghini but now it looks perfect to my eyes, compact, understated and purposeful. Add in one of the greatest and best-sounding V12 engines ever made, a mid-engined RWD layout, flyweight, 6 speed manual transmission and granted I have never been fortunate enough to experience one but supposedly it was even comfortable, rode well and had ample luggage space. Admittedly, its value today is a bit of a barrier to its usability but for my last tank of petrol, it’s a winner every time and I don’t even have to choose which one of my children to take with me!
Accepting that a McLaren F1 doesn’t cover all the bases though, for everything else there’s the L322 Range Rover. The original “classic” may be an iconic design but the “Classic”/P38 were a bit shonkily built and the L405/current Range Rover may be objectively better but a bit too posh to abuse. The L322 is the perfect blend between luxury and utility, probably the most capable vehicle that Land Rover made at the time and available with the excellent V8 diesel engine. It was probably the first Range Rover that you would buy over an S-Class/7-Series/A8/XJ as a credible luxury car too and now probably outsells those cars combined. Having said that, the potential bork factor still scares me from owning one! They’re perfectly affordable to buy but I don’t have enough of a rainy day fund left in the bank to keep it running.
So, providing some justification, what in your opinion is the “greatest” ie not necessarily the best (or your favourite) car of the last 50 years?
I'd argue the w124 mercedes. Everything from moon mileage diesel taxis to super saloon v8s. Saloon, coupe, drop top body styles to suit all. Built so well every Merc e class after seems like a backwards step. Loads still around in good order, rare to see a proper dog. From a time when car companies paid for proper engineering and owning a Merc was unusual and genuinely a premium car.
I think it depends on how "great" is defined.
If "great" means redefining what a car does, works or how it looks, the Espace would qualify.
However if it's that definition, arguably the Tesla Model S and Nissan Qashqai would be better contenders.
My nomination though would be the Audi Quattro, which was a huge step from what came before and a lot of what it did still defines what you get in a mainstream usable performance car today.
If "great" means redefining what a car does, works or how it looks, the Espace would qualify.
However if it's that definition, arguably the Tesla Model S and Nissan Qashqai would be better contenders.
My nomination though would be the Audi Quattro, which was a huge step from what came before and a lot of what it did still defines what you get in a mainstream usable performance car today.
Cjr32blue said:
I'd argue the w124 mercedes. Everything from moon mileage diesel taxis to super saloon v8s. Saloon, coupe, drop top body styles to suit all. Built so well every Merc e class after seems like a backwards step. Loads still around in good order, rare to see a proper dog. From a time when car companies paid for proper engineering and owning a Merc was unusual and genuinely a premium car.
Certainly agree about the W124.I was going to say the Toyota Corolla in all its incarnations, but as you've mentioned Moon-mileages, I'd add the Toyota Camry XV20 and VW Passat B5 are good contenders based on that parameter. Perhaps the Camry more so.
As for the versatility of the W124 in various guises, based on my own experience, the Ford Focus has also been a fantastic all-rounder that has been capable of just doing everything well in whatever guises the various releases have taken.
A fourth suggestion I'd put forward is the 1989 Lexus LS given all the boundaries it broke at the time and the fact that it is still a decent bit of car even by many of today's standards (and nostalgia).
white_goodman said:
DodgyGeezer said:
surely something like the Renault Espace has to be in the conversation?
Go on? A bit of a dead end possibly sadly but perhaps that's the way that we should have gone rather than the way we did.Edited by DodgyGeezer on Thursday 11th September 20:46
Focus: rebooted the family hatch and made it fun.
MX-5: well obviously.
Elise: driving perfection that felt attainable for the common man.
Transit: backbone of commerce.
CR-V: launched the softroader and led the class for ages.
BMW Mini: much as it pains me, shook up the supermini market and made retro cool. Culturally probably the most significant car in the last 50 years.
MX-5: well obviously.
Elise: driving perfection that felt attainable for the common man.
Transit: backbone of commerce.
CR-V: launched the softroader and led the class for ages.
BMW Mini: much as it pains me, shook up the supermini market and made retro cool. Culturally probably the most significant car in the last 50 years.
Edited by FA57REN on Thursday 11th September 17:45
DodgyGeezer said:
don't get me wrong, other then the Lexspace, I loathe the bloody things - however, they are supremely practical and tick nearly every box if you've no interest in style and/or performance (which the great majority are not)
They were pretty stylish really. Before the SUV became the car to have, these and stuff like the Previa were quite popular and quite cool (to me as a kid in the 80s/90s anyway). Having owned both an MPV (Grand Voyager) and a 7-seat SUV, the SUV was more refined and nicer to drive but the MPV was much better packaged (more interior and luggage space for the size), more economical and didn't drive terribly.FA57REN said:
Focus: rebooted the family hatch and made it fun.
MX-5: well obviously.
Elise: driving perfection that felt attainable for the common man.
Transit: backbone of commerce.
CR-V: launched the softroader and led the class for ages.
BMW Mini: much as it pains me, shook up the supermini market and made retro cool. Culturally probably the most significant car in the last 50 years.
That's a pretty good list. Any specific Transit (they were made before 1975)? I've only driven one (2013?), last of that generation I think and it was a pretty unpleasant experience. I'm not sure if it's the greatest van, let alone the greatest car of the last 50 years.MX-5: well obviously.
Elise: driving perfection that felt attainable for the common man.
Transit: backbone of commerce.
CR-V: launched the softroader and led the class for ages.
BMW Mini: much as it pains me, shook up the supermini market and made retro cool. Culturally probably the most significant car in the last 50 years.
Edited by FA57REN on Thursday 11th September 17:45
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