Outbuilding Building Regs Issue.
Discussion
Hi all,
Hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction with a building regs issue I'm having...
We renovated our house a few years ago, added an extension and at the same time renovated a small stone outbuilding at the end of the garden. The outbuilding was included in our building regs application as an office with shower room, and was inspected throughout the conversion (new roof, new insulated concrete floor, 100mm of celotex in walls and ceiling, new window and door).
When the building inspector came for the final inspection I asked him what Id need to do to change the outbuilding from being designated as an office to a bedroom, as we'd seemingly done all the work required anyway. He told me not to bother and that it was more hassle than it was worth, as they'd never check what it was used for anyway. I've used it as an occasional bedroom for guests over the past couple of years.
We're now selling the house and the buyers want a discount as the outbuilding which they thought was a bedroom when viewing the house only actually has building regs approval to be used as an office (I can see their point of view!). In my head the building was renovated to meet the regs so it shouldn't be difficult to get a certificate saying that, but then the inspector said it was a hassle so I'm assuming it's not as easy as I'd hope...firstly maybe there's something I'm missing in terms of whether it'd even be allowed to change to an occasional bedroom, and secondly would I need to do a full building regs application or is there a less involved route given they've inspected it many times and in theory know the construction of it?
Many thanks in advance!
Dom
Hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction with a building regs issue I'm having...
We renovated our house a few years ago, added an extension and at the same time renovated a small stone outbuilding at the end of the garden. The outbuilding was included in our building regs application as an office with shower room, and was inspected throughout the conversion (new roof, new insulated concrete floor, 100mm of celotex in walls and ceiling, new window and door).
When the building inspector came for the final inspection I asked him what Id need to do to change the outbuilding from being designated as an office to a bedroom, as we'd seemingly done all the work required anyway. He told me not to bother and that it was more hassle than it was worth, as they'd never check what it was used for anyway. I've used it as an occasional bedroom for guests over the past couple of years.
We're now selling the house and the buyers want a discount as the outbuilding which they thought was a bedroom when viewing the house only actually has building regs approval to be used as an office (I can see their point of view!). In my head the building was renovated to meet the regs so it shouldn't be difficult to get a certificate saying that, but then the inspector said it was a hassle so I'm assuming it's not as easy as I'd hope...firstly maybe there's something I'm missing in terms of whether it'd even be allowed to change to an occasional bedroom, and secondly would I need to do a full building regs application or is there a less involved route given they've inspected it many times and in theory know the construction of it?
Many thanks in advance!
Dom
You have both a planning permission issue and a building regs issue (potentially) if you want to treat a separate outbuilding as habitable.
If you want to advertise the property as having the outbuildings as habitable space, then this needs to be resolved. If it doesn’t make a material difference to the value of the property either way, advertise it as an outbuilding and let buyers make up their own minds on usage.
If you’ve allowed the current buyers to form the opinion that it was compliant to be used as habitable space and it isn’t, then you’ve got a bit of humble pie to eat. You don’t actually have to give them compensation for their costs or anything if they pull out on that basis unless you wilfully misrepresented the property.
If you want to advertise the property as having the outbuildings as habitable space, then this needs to be resolved. If it doesn’t make a material difference to the value of the property either way, advertise it as an outbuilding and let buyers make up their own minds on usage.
If you’ve allowed the current buyers to form the opinion that it was compliant to be used as habitable space and it isn’t, then you’ve got a bit of humble pie to eat. You don’t actually have to give them compensation for their costs or anything if they pull out on that basis unless you wilfully misrepresented the property.
If you really want to resolve it for these buyers then you need to submit a Planning Permission application for change of use to make it habitable. This is likely to take around 12 weeks to be granted.
Then you would need to get Building Regs sign off for it. If your changes were fully compliant with the regulations in place at the time, and the inspector is happy with the available evidence (records, photos etc) then this should be straightforward but will still take some time. If they aren’t happy with the records then you might need to partly dismantle the building to prove how it was constructed (or upgrade it).
With the buyers and their attempt to chip on price, it really all depends how you presented the outbuilding for sale. If you declared it as a bedroom/habitable space then that’s on you (misrepresentation). If you presented it (furnished) as if it was habitable then it’s a bit awkward and time to negotiate. If it was presented as a standard wfh office and the buyers made their own assumption, that’s on them.
Then you would need to get Building Regs sign off for it. If your changes were fully compliant with the regulations in place at the time, and the inspector is happy with the available evidence (records, photos etc) then this should be straightforward but will still take some time. If they aren’t happy with the records then you might need to partly dismantle the building to prove how it was constructed (or upgrade it).
With the buyers and their attempt to chip on price, it really all depends how you presented the outbuilding for sale. If you declared it as a bedroom/habitable space then that’s on you (misrepresentation). If you presented it (furnished) as if it was habitable then it’s a bit awkward and time to negotiate. If it was presented as a standard wfh office and the buyers made their own assumption, that’s on them.
Thanks everyone (especially Phil) that's all really helpful! Just to be clear on a couple of things, it has a bed in there and was advertised as a detached annexe, so it's fair that our buyer would assume it's a habitable room and I've got no problem with the price chip if that's the only route...I'd be doing the same in their position! It's more that given the conversion was done to proper standards at the time with full inspections from the council building inspector and signed off as an office, how hard would it be to (quickly!) get it changed to an ancillary bedroom in terms of building regs.
Given the whole project was only signed off last year I would assume they've got good enough records to know that it was converted to a proper standard. I did wonder about using a private building control company for speed, but I'm not clear if it's a new application or a regularisation certificate I'd be after (and they wouldn't have pics/notes of the conversion as it was done by council building control).
Planning wise - this is an old outbuilding (100 years+) and doesn't have a kitchen or anything in it. I was assured at the time of the work by our architect that it is permitted development...
Thanks again, Dom
Given the whole project was only signed off last year I would assume they've got good enough records to know that it was converted to a proper standard. I did wonder about using a private building control company for speed, but I'm not clear if it's a new application or a regularisation certificate I'd be after (and they wouldn't have pics/notes of the conversion as it was done by council building control).
Planning wise - this is an old outbuilding (100 years+) and doesn't have a kitchen or anything in it. I was assured at the time of the work by our architect that it is permitted development...
Thanks again, Dom
It’s completely valid Permitted Development to upgrade an outbuilding to any standard you like for use ancillary to the main property. However if you want to use a separate building as habitable space then that needs Planning Permission for change if use. That being granted will depend on context; a building at the bottom of the garden in Ealing is less likely to get full PP as an annexe compared with a 3 acre plot in Wiltshire.
Different buildings regs apply for habitable space. It’s entirely possible that your previous buildings regs inspector was signing off the building as an outbuilding (in which case, depending on size, no building regs apply). It completely depends on the context under which he was signing off, and we don’t have that information, but if the building didn’t have PP as habitable space then there’s almost nothing he needs to actually sign off on (unless the building is more than 30m2 internal floor space - in which case full building regs apply).
His comment to you about using it as you like as no-one will know/check was fair enough in the real world, but that doesn’t mean you can present it as habitable.
By presenting the property as habitable you have potentially misrepresented it to the buyers. It now depends on how much value they attached to it. If they are looking specifically for an annexed property (maybe for an elderly relative to co-habit) then they will attach much value to it. If the main property has 8 beds already then adding 1 more in the garden doesn’t add much.
Ultimately it’s a negotiation and it’s down to both sides to decide how to proceed. However if they pull out it’s possible they could make a reasonable claim for costs they might have incurred to date (conveyancing, searches, surveys etc.) on grounds of misrepresentation.
To proceed in a fully regularised way (full PP and appropriate building regs sign off) then there’s going be quite a lot of latency involved.
Probably the first thing to do is review the construction methods of the outbuilding vs regs for habitable space. If the outbuilding is deficient then even if you’ve got PP there would be regularisation costs on construction.
Basically, it all depends on information we don’t currently have.
Different buildings regs apply for habitable space. It’s entirely possible that your previous buildings regs inspector was signing off the building as an outbuilding (in which case, depending on size, no building regs apply). It completely depends on the context under which he was signing off, and we don’t have that information, but if the building didn’t have PP as habitable space then there’s almost nothing he needs to actually sign off on (unless the building is more than 30m2 internal floor space - in which case full building regs apply).
His comment to you about using it as you like as no-one will know/check was fair enough in the real world, but that doesn’t mean you can present it as habitable.
By presenting the property as habitable you have potentially misrepresented it to the buyers. It now depends on how much value they attached to it. If they are looking specifically for an annexed property (maybe for an elderly relative to co-habit) then they will attach much value to it. If the main property has 8 beds already then adding 1 more in the garden doesn’t add much.
Ultimately it’s a negotiation and it’s down to both sides to decide how to proceed. However if they pull out it’s possible they could make a reasonable claim for costs they might have incurred to date (conveyancing, searches, surveys etc.) on grounds of misrepresentation.
To proceed in a fully regularised way (full PP and appropriate building regs sign off) then there’s going be quite a lot of latency involved.
Probably the first thing to do is review the construction methods of the outbuilding vs regs for habitable space. If the outbuilding is deficient then even if you’ve got PP there would be regularisation costs on construction.
Basically, it all depends on information we don’t currently have.
PhilboSE said:
However if you want to use a separate building as habitable space then that needs Planning Permission for change of use.
From my understanding you can't just forget planning permission, if you want to make it a habitable space.Edited by jfdi on Thursday 11th September 07:25
Zeemax_Mini said:
jfdi said:
From my understanding you can't just forget planning permission, if you want to make it a habitable space.
Of course, but in terms of building regs... "We're now selling the house and the buyers want a discount as the outbuilding which they thought was a bedroom when viewing the house" as Phil mentioned, how did they arrive at this conclusion? Was the shed included in the number of bedrooms in your advertisement or did they just assume that when they looked around?
TA14 said:
We'd need to know the exact details of what you've done. Most of the time building regs is easy because it's a technical thing. Even if your building needs some extra insulation or ventilation etc. then you can just agree a price to do those works with the buyer of your house. PP is difficult because it might not be successful.
"We're now selling the house and the buyers want a discount as the outbuilding which they thought was a bedroom when viewing the house" as Phil mentioned, how did they arrive at this conclusion? Was the shed included in the number of bedrooms in your advertisement or did they just assume that when they looked around?
It's not included in the number of bedrooms but it's a room with a bed in it and an attached shower room, so it'd be a fair conclusion. I'm not concerned with their approach or wanting some money off, as I'd be doing the same if I was them. It was more whether (assuming the building would meet habitable room building regs standards) there was an easy/quick way to get a certificate confirming the same, to appease the buyer. It sounds like that's probably not the case, in which case I'll go with the discount."We're now selling the house and the buyers want a discount as the outbuilding which they thought was a bedroom when viewing the house" as Phil mentioned, how did they arrive at this conclusion? Was the shed included in the number of bedrooms in your advertisement or did they just assume that when they looked around?
Thanks again, Dom
Zeemax_Mini said:
We're now selling the house and the buyers want a discount as the outbuilding which they thought was a bedroom when viewing the house only actually has building regs approval to be used as an office
I had something similar a few years ago - for a fairly remote and superbly built recording studio in my woodland. There was an issue with permissions and the buyers wanted a discount. So I told them I could easily remove the building and then there'd be no issue. They bought without a discount.A frivolous (but true) story and it was at a time when properties were flying off the shelf and it was a very hot market. But it made me smile at how quickly they changed their minds.
Mr Pointy said:
In the current state of the market? That might not be a very sensible stance to take.
Haha yeah they're paying a good price and we're lucky to have a good sale going through, so we'll be going with them either way. It's just whether or not it's best to accept the reduction (annoyingly, believing the room is converted to meet habitable room specs) or if there's a way to get a new certificate confirming it's habitable. As the council have inspected and know the construction details, I thought that might be easy. It sounds like it's probably not!Dom
Zeemax_Mini said:
Mabbs9 said:
Regs and permission are two different things. Sounds like it meets the regs. That's good. Sounds like there is currently no permission to use it as anything other than an office. Less good.
It may meet regs, but at the moment I've got no way of proving that...Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff