Advice on VAG buying

[Koolerking]

Hi there.

I'm going around Jim cor Lea and probably for myself in a twist on reliability so need a sense check.

I'm looking for an estate. Not Passat (4.8m size). So either Audi A4 or seat Leon.

Now, engine!

I only do about 6000 p/y. But when I do the shortest is a 25 min motorway. Up to 4 hr drives to Cornwall 3 times a year. Should I go diesel, the 2.0lte unit? 2012 TDI is euro 5, but not that fussed with paying clean air zones as it's only a few times a year. I'll
Make sure it has the best diesel fuel and servicing.

Or go the VAG 1.4 tsi (after 2014 they were a better engine?)

Budget is up to £11k. Just want something that won't be a money pit, just the decent servicing at my local VAG specialist.

Forgot to say, mileage might be up to 70k on both options.

Any thoughts would be grateful.

Edited by Koolerking on Wednesday 10th September 11:06

[66HFM]

Or you could go both of those cars sibling and get a Skoda Octavia VRS estate, which offers a much larger boot than both of those.
For that sort of usage I'd go for the 2.0 TFSi

[Koolerking]

66HFM said:

Or you could go both of those cars sibling and get a Skoda Octavia VRS estate, which offers a much larger boot than both of those.
For that sort of usage I'd go for the 2.0 TFSi

Thanks. Did the 2.0ltre tfsi have oil burning issues? Or am I over thinking it! My only thought in the 2.0 TDI is (apart form normal diesel things) it's meant to be a solid higher mileage engine?

[Belle427]

Your mileage would be ok to keep a diesel happy and the cheaper tax may be a bonus too but if your not fussed i would try and go petrol every time.
The diesels can have a bit more low down performance if that is where you spend most of your time, i have not looked at the various power outputs.
Having owned a couple of VAG 2.0 TDI CR engines they have been good to me and deliver the power well.

[Koolerking]

Belle427 said:

Your mileage would be ok to keep a diesel happy and the cheaper tax may be a bonus too but if your not fussed i would try and go petrol every time.
The diesels can have a bit more low down performance if that is where you spend most of your time, i have not looked at the various power outputs.
Having owned a couple of VAG 2.0 TDI CR engines they have been good to me and deliver the power well.

Thanks for the info. There's a lot more on AT in diesel form, so give me more options. From 2013 to 2015. Would something with 90-100k mileage be a worry? Also, I Hess doing the dpf regen on the motorway with higher revs work?

[Belle427]

Koolerking said:

Belle427 said:

Your mileage would be ok to keep a diesel happy and the cheaper tax may be a bonus too but if your not fussed i would try and go petrol every time.
The diesels can have a bit more low down performance if that is where you spend most of your time, i have not looked at the various power outputs.
Having owned a couple of VAG 2.0 TDI CR engines they have been good to me and deliver the power well.

Thanks for the info. There's a lot more on AT in diesel form, so give me more options. From 2013 to 2015. Would something with 90-100k mileage be a worry? Also, I Hess doing the dpf regen on the motorway with higher revs work?

As long as its been serviced on time you cant do anymore, 100k miles is nothing really. The only concern at that mileage is the clutch, a dpf prefers longer runs to keep clear rather than high revs.

[Koolerking]

Belle427 said:

Koolerking said:

Belle427 said:

Your mileage would be ok to keep a diesel happy and the cheaper tax may be a bonus too but if your not fussed i would try and go petrol every time.
The diesels can have a bit more low down performance if that is where you spend most of your time, i have not looked at the various power outputs.
Having owned a couple of VAG 2.0 TDI CR engines they have been good to me and deliver the power well.

Thanks for the info. There's a lot more on AT in diesel form, so give me more options. From 2013 to 2015. Would something with 90-100k mileage be a worry? Also, I Hess doing the dpf regen on the motorway with higher revs work?

As long as its been serviced on time you cant do anymore, 100k miles is nothing really. The only concern at that mileage is the clutch, a dpf prefers longer runs to keep clear rather than high revs.

Thanks. So longer runs being of 1 hour plus? I think I'd also want to do DSG, so that'll probably need a service as well.

[POIDH]

Ex Leon estate in 1.4tsi (ACT) (150bhp) with DSG owner here.

I found it did nearly as many mpg as my previous V70, Galaxy and Touran diesels. As in averaged over 50mpg on a run. Much more mpg around town (as long as you didn't floor it from every traffic light!), and nicer than the diesel when mated to the DSG.
It was cheaper to run than a diesel - from servicing to cost of fuel per litre. And noticeably lighter and nicer to drive with, particularly in the Leon which handles well on top.

The 1.4 (ACT or not) or 1.5 tsi in 150bhp is a great engine - smooth, great response, alarming mpg at times, good speed and enough torque to lug things along unless really, really heavily loaded (like 4 of us and 4 bikes to Spain from Scotland...). I found a friends 125bhp (more common) to be less good when lugging a few of us around, and the manual was OK but nothing brilliant - wheras the DSG was as smooth as butter.

The only thing to be aware of is that the 1.4's come with a dry DSG gearbox, which apparently has issues. We never had any in 2 years and 50k, and car was at about 130k when we sold.

On balance, even for 20k+ miles a year I would go the petrol...

[POIDH]

Something like this:

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/18592157

[Inbox]

Best advice is don't buy VAG.

For your mileage of 6000 miles PA, do not buy diesel go with petrol or electric.

For reliabilty, Japanese or possibly Korean.

[Rob 131 Sport]

Easy one this. Definitely go for the A4 2.0 TDI Avant. Try and get one with the 190 BHP engine. I drove the saloon variant for a few months and thought it was a superb piece of kit.

I guarantee that you will be very impressed.

[Inbox]

Rob 131 Sport said:

Easy one this. Definitely go for the A4 2.0 TDI Avant. Try and get one with the 190 BHP engine. I drove the saloon variant for a few months and thought it was a superb piece of kit.

I guarantee that you will be very impressed.

It might be all that but the OP isn't doing the mileage to make having a diesel worth the extra cost. If the OP was doing 30k miles per year then no argument but they aren't.

[paul_c123]

Inbox said:

It might be all that but the OP isn't doing the mileage to make having a diesel worth the extra cost. If the OP was doing 30k miles per year then no argument but they aren't.

Are they extra cost though? Diesel would be fine for the intended use pattern. If I were buying that size car, I'd go for diesel auto; and if I were really wanting the 1.4TSI, I'd go for the manual.

Seat Leon is a different class to Audi A4/VW Passat. If you wanted to compare like-for-like, in theory a Seat Exeo would be the car but they are rare (and.......they're just a previous model Audi A4 anyway). I am surprised you reject the VW Passat based on size but have Audi A4 on the list.

[POIDH]

paul_c123 said:

Are they extra cost though? Diesel would be fine for the intended use pattern. If I were buying that size car, I'd go for diesel auto; and if I were really wanting the 1.4TSI, I'd go for the manual.

Seat Leon is a different class to Audi A4/VW Passat. If you wanted to compare like-for-like, in theory a Seat Exeo would be the car but they are rare (and.......they're just a previous model Audi A4 anyway). I am surprised you reject the VW Passat based on size but have Audi A4 on the list.

1. Diesel does cost more - fuel and servicing. Add in an older car with potential for wearing out expensive parts, and the balance shifts to lighter petrol with fewer sensors and filters on it (e.g. compare clutch cost between petrol and diesel, or how much a DPF costs). To break even you need to do a lot of miles, when there is a modest saving due to increase mpg.
2. Sizing wise, the A4 is longer than the Leon but it is all bodywork curves - boot and leg space they are comparable, with the A4 having a smaller boot and less leg space. The A6 and Passat are comparable inside, and the Octavia splits the difference in being A4 sized externally but internally similar to Passat and A6..like a tardis!.
3. 1.4 TSI in 150bhp is lovely with a DSG. Can I ask why one with auto and one with manual for your preference.

[Koolerking]

I think ie as only thinking of the 2.0 TDI with it being a more reliable engine (not inc the usual diesel things) then the 1.4 tsi. Length wise, infused to have a 2005 Subaru legacy which was the perfect length and interior space. Anything longer and it's likely to be too long to park outside my parents place when visiting. Mazda 6 is also long I think. And I'm a bit over manual driving.

[Rob 131 Sport]

A 2.0 Diesel A4 is compatible with the OP usage and would make a great car as opposed to the other suggestions. The drive and quality of the A4 is superb.

[anyoldcardave]

Rob 131 Sport said:

A 2.0 Diesel A4 is compatible with the OP usage and would make a great car as opposed to the other suggestions. The drive and quality of the A4 is superb.

Agree, making sure it gets a run to regen now and then, I sold my BIL a 2010 A6 Avant 2.0 TDI manual when the LEZ came in, and he does nowhere near 6k a year, probably 4k, WFH. I don,t think he will ever sell it.

[paul_c123]

POIDH said:

3. 1.4 TSI in 150bhp is lovely with a DSG. Can I ask why one with auto and one with manual for your preference.

I've driven both (manual and DSG), across many 1.4TSI cars. When its working, it is indeed a great transmission (the DQ200), but the oil (inside the box, the clutches are dry and outside the casing) is 'fill for life' and the mechatronic units have a couple of known weaknesses. It is for that reason, I'd avoid them.

The DQ250 as found on Passat and Leon 2.0TDI (and 2.0 petrols) is better but needs a service (oil change) every 40,000 miles to keep it good. A much more viable long term prospect for ownership.

The Audi A4 will have an inline engine in front of the front axle, and has a CVT (if front wheel drive - to be avoided) or traditional torque converter (if quattro) up to 2015. Onwards from that, it would have a DSG. Either DL382-7F if FWD or DL382-7Q if quattro.

Also in 2015-2017 (varies on model/region), the DQ250 6 speed was updated to DQ381 (7 speed) for those cars with transverse engine (VW Passat, Seat Leon, Skoda Octavia, VW Golf, etc).

[Koolerking]

I think ie as only thinking of the 2.0 TDI with it being a more reliable engine (not inc the usual diesel things) then the 1.4 tsi. Length wise, infused to have a 2005 Subaru legacy which was the perfect length and interior space. Anything longer and it's likely to be too long to park outside my parents place when visiting. Mazda 6 is also long I think. And I'm a bit over manual driving.

[Koolerking]

paul_c123 said:

POIDH said:

3. 1.4 TSI in 150bhp is lovely with a DSG. Can I ask why one with auto and one with manual for your preference.

I've driven both (manual and DSG), across many 1.4TSI cars. When its working, it is indeed a great transmission (the DQ200), but the oil (inside the box, the clutches are dry and outside the casing) is 'fill for life' and the mechatronic units have a couple of known weaknesses. It is for that reason, I'd avoid them.

The DQ250 as found on Passat and Leon 2.0TDI (and 2.0 petrols) is better but needs a service (oil change) every 40,000 miles to keep it good. A much more viable long term prospect for ownership.

The Audi A4 will have an inline engine in front of the front axle, and has a CVT (if front wheel drive - to be avoided) or traditional torque converter (if quattro) up to 2015. Onwards from that, it would have a DSG. Either DL382-7F if FWD or DL382-7Q if quattro.

Also in 2015-2017 (varies on model/region), the DQ250 6 speed was updated to DQ381 (7 speed) for those cars with transverse engine (VW Passat, Seat Leon, Skoda Octavia, VW Golf, etc).

Interesting. So it wouldn't be Quattro, so are the FWDs be a bad choice? (The steptronic is the one to go for?)