Registering Trusts & Government Gateway ID

[The Gauge]

I need some help logging into a Trust Government Gateway please..

Back in July 2022 due to new rules I had to register a trust that my mother had, with me being a trustee/beneficiary. When doing so I obtained a Government Gateway ID and password, along with a registration ref number.

My mother has now passed away and I need to log back in and obtain a Unique Ref No to give to the trust provider (Canada Life), I think this is to prove that the trust was registered. Now there is a chance that the URN they need might be the registration ref number I already have??

However, when signing into the Government Gateway it tells me the log in details have been deleted due to inactivity (I haven't used it since creating it in 2023) and that I need to create a new ID. I did this and it provided me with a new Gateway ID but when signing in it took me to my own personal Gateway ID page where I can view my state pension details etc. I think this is a different Gateway ID page to what I need?

I don't think this is where I needed to be, I believe I need to log into a Trust Government Gateway ID, but I'm getting confused. Could someone please steer me to how I access the correct Gateway ID to obtain the trust URN I need? Is there a specific Gateway for trusts and one for personal or are they the same?

Edited by The Gauge on Friday 5th September 23:34

[alscar]

When I had to register a couple of trusts for my wife and I , iirc when the pita process was complete I was “ given “ the respective ID numbers there and then.
Haven’t needed to check back so can’t help specifically but do seem to recall there are a number of gateways as you say !

[C69]

Yes, each trust should have its own separate Government Gateway ID.

The Gauge said:

However, when signing into the Government Gateway it tells me the log in details have been deleted due to inactivity (I haven't used it since creating it in 2023) and that I need to create a new ID.

That's a pain - I imagine that for many trusts, their trustees aren't signing in on a regular basis.

[C69]

The Gauge said:

I don't think this is where I needed to be, I believe I need to log into a Trust Government Gateway ID, but I'm getting confused. Could someone please steer me to how I access the correct Gateway ID to obtain the trust URN I need? Is there a specific Gateway for trusts and one for personal or are they the same?

If you're trying to sign into the trust's GG using the email you use for your personal GG, then that might be the issue. Each GG ID is supposed to have its own email address, I think.

[Panamax]

I don't understand how a trust can be inactive, because it has to file an update of the registration details every year.

[Happy Jim]

I had the same, needed to re-set but it worked OK for me (make sure you use the correct user ID) and I used the same mail address for personal and trusts.

Canada Life though……total pain in the arse!

Jim

[Sheepshanks]

Does the guide here help: https://p3.aprimocdn.net/canadalifeuk/registering-...

I did it for a couple of Trusts last year and, yes, it's a PITA, but I don't recall any great drama.

The HMRC page to get the ID is here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/register-a-trust-as-a-...

[The Gauge]

I did use a different email when creating the new GG ID as I don't use the original email address nowadays. I had to provide 2 x forms of ID - Driving Licence and Passport.

So do I need to create another new Government Gateway ID ensuring a use the same email as I did when registering the trusts? Will using that same email automatically link it to the GG ID I created when registering the trusts? Wont it just link straight to my existing GG ID?

Edited by The Gauge on Friday 5th September 23:02

[alscar]

Panamax said:

I don't understand how a trust can be inactive, because it has to file an update of the registration details every year.

Iirc not all Trusts have to be registered with the TRS and if non taxable they don’t require updates.

[The Gauge]

If I had known back in 2022 when I registered the trust in the Governement Gateway website that I needed to keep the GG account active, Id have logged back in every few months, but as I didn't then the GG account has been deleted.

I think I need to find the right place within the GG to 'maintain the trust' and obtain some kind of reference number, but I just can't get there.

I created a new GG ID today and got as far s choosing an 'organisation' type of account, got through a few more screens that appeared to be for trusts, but when inputting the trust number it wouldn't let me proceed any further. I seem to have found myself in the Business Tax section, which I don't think is the right area?





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Edited by The Gauge on Saturday 6th September 18:25

[Panamax]

alscar said:

Iirc not all Trusts have to be registered with the TRS and if non taxable they don’t require updates.

Even "bare trusts" need to be registered these days, not just taxpaying trusts.

As Ms Rayner discovered, people involved with trusts need to take the game seriously. It's not just a case of file once, cross your fingers and forget. The law and tax is complex but that doesn't let you off the hook.

This stuff about Gov't Gateway shutting logins doesn't match my own experience at all.

[alscar]

Panamax said:

Even "bare trusts" need to be registered these days, not just taxpaying trusts.

As Ms Rayner discovered, people involved with trusts need to take the game seriously. It's not just a case of file once, cross your fingers and forget. The law and tax is complex but that doesn't let you off the hook.

This stuff about Gov't Gateway shutting logins doesn't match my own experience at all.

I checked our paperwork and neither of ours ( Asset Preservation Trusts set up for Death benefits within relevant Pension schemes ) only need to be updated if any changes.
These need doing within 90 days.

[The Gauge]

I suggest anyone with a trust registered on the Government Gateway to log in every few months to keep the ID active.

I finally managed to get into the right area of the Government Gateway today to access mums trust, ticking all the correct check boxes, and finally downloading the pdf file of the trust which is the document Canada Life wanted to be able to cash in the trust.

I started by following this link and clicking Start Now at the bottom of the page.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/manage-your-trusts-reg...

I also came across a help page

https://www.gov.uk/find-hmrc-contacts/trusts-enqui...

Entering the original GG ID, then after seeing the message that the ID had been deleted due to inactivity (having not logged back in over the last 3 yrs) it prompted me to create a ne GG ID, and then lead me through the various options, the first being this one..

Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th September 12:22

[alscar]

Thanks Gauge.
I've just tried to log in using the correct gateway and the id etc is indeed now not recognised as post 3 years after any activity.
My FA had even said when setting mine up that I never needed to worry about checking in again to see if the Trust itself needed looking unless there have been changes which for the Pension protection trusts there would many people who make no changes.
Would have been kind of HMG to warn people in advance about this so they check and have the 3 year period automatically restart but sounds as if its not too much of a hassle to restart anyway.

[The Gauge]

alscar said:

Thanks Gauge.
I've just tried to log in using the correct gateway and the id etc is indeed now not recognised as post 3 years after any activity.
My FA had even said when setting mine up that I never needed to worry about checking in again to see if the Trust itself needed looking unless there have been changes which for the Pension protection trusts there would many people who make no changes.
Would have been kind of HMG to warn people in advance about this so they check and have the 3 year period automatically restart but sounds as if its not too much of a hassle to restart anyway.

Have you managed to create a new GG ID and access the info you wanted. You need to ensure you use the same email address you originally used. I can post you the screenshots of each page I moved through when doing mine if it's of any help?

[alscar]

That's a kind offer -I haven't as yet tried although it looked pretty straightforward.
I had printed off all the Trust details when I first set them up under the TRS in any event and as nothing needs to be changed or notified maybe I'll wait until I've literally got nothing better to do !
The HMG site says its only the log ins that are rendered useless after 3 years of inactivity , all the data itself will obviously be fine.

[Simpo Two]

This has all happened because HMRC close the 'gateway' after 12 months of inactivity. Why? And if there is a sound reason, which I doubt, why do they not inform the owner, much as when your insurance comes up for renewal?

[The Gauge]

alscar said:

The HMG site says its only the log ins that are rendered useless after 3 years of inactivity , all the data itself will obviously be fine.

That seems to be the case, but after receiving your new log in ID there are quite a few questions to answer before it shows you your trust details. but as long as you have one of the required ref numbers from when you originally registered the trust you should be ok. But I'd advise logging in each year to keep on top of things, as I only found my ID had ben deleted when trying to cash in my mums trust.. Not a nice feeling!

Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th September 14:35

[alscar]

Simpo Two said:

This has all happened because HMRC close the 'gateway' after 12 months of inactivity. Why? And if there is a sound reason, which I doubt, why do they not inform the owner, much as when your insurance comes up for renewal?

36 months - apparently to prevent fraud.
Yes makes no sense especially given the lack of warning.
Track and trace -that didn't work too well .
And people wonder why so many are "concerned " at potential digital ID cards being introduced.

[alscar]

The Gauge said:

That seems to be the case, but after receiving your new log in ID there are quite a few questions to answer before it shows you your trust details. but as long as you have one of the required ref numbers from when you originally registered the trust you should be ok. But I'd advise logging in each year to keep on top of things, as I only found my ID had ben deleted when trying to cash in my mums trust.. Not a nice feeling!

Edited by The Gauge on Monday 8th September 14:35

Yes I had taken the precaution of writing everything down when first registered.