The meaning of "offers over" in Scotland
Discussion
Me and the Mrs (live in England) have been in the market for a weekend place for a few months but never agreed. We've found a place in the West Highlands that we both agree on. Property is listed at offers over £800k, I originally budgeted 700k. Absolute top I could go to is is 750 and even that's a stretch. Property has been on the market since April so the vendor clearly doesn't have people beating down his door. The property is (very) isolated which to my mind means it has a limited market.
Does "offers over" mean the vendor won't accept anything less or is it more of a guide? Last thing I want is to view the property than have the Mrs say this looks as good as it does on paper come on we've got to buy this at >£800k
Does "offers over" mean the vendor won't accept anything less or is it more of a guide? Last thing I want is to view the property than have the Mrs say this looks as good as it does on paper come on we've got to buy this at >£800k
Alorotom said:
Its what they want ... doesnt mean its what theyll get.
Agents are obliged to put forward all offers to sellers, irrespective of OO/OIRO/OIEO/etc.
Excellent, that's what I was hoping. Agents are obliged to put forward all offers to sellers, irrespective of OO/OIRO/OIEO/etc.
Was worried that "offers over" meant the agent would bin any offer <800. On that basis will arrange a viewing.
Appreciate your reply.
The short answer is the list price doesn't mean much at all. Also true of HR value to a lesser extent.
The agent doesn't want to waste time so will likely give your solicitor a somewhat honest answer whether it's worth viewing. I wouldn't view without talking to them first.
The agent doesn't want to waste time so will likely give your solicitor a somewhat honest answer whether it's worth viewing. I wouldn't view without talking to them first.
Edited by lizardbrain on Thursday 4th September 12:29
Olivera said:
You can offer whatever you want.
Have you calculated Scottish LBTT liability if it's a second home (Additional Dwelling Supplement) ? It's biblical on second homes of this value: on a 750k second home LBTT of £108,350.00 will be due.
Is that a second Scottish home? Or a second home regardless of where your first home is?Have you calculated Scottish LBTT liability if it's a second home (Additional Dwelling Supplement) ? It's biblical on second homes of this value: on a 750k second home LBTT of £108,350.00 will be due.
Olivera said:
You can offer whatever you want.
Have you calculated Scottish LBTT liability if it's a second home (Additional Dwelling Supplement) ? It's biblical on second homes of this value: on a 750k second home LBTT of £108,350.00 will be due.
Wasn't aware - that kills it for me. Wouldn't pay that even if I could afford to.Have you calculated Scottish LBTT liability if it's a second home (Additional Dwelling Supplement) ? It's biblical on second homes of this value: on a 750k second home LBTT of £108,350.00 will be due.
Thanks for the heads up. Shame as we both loved it. Back to the drawing board - in England.
I bought in Scotland last year (W coast). Its a very different process to England.
My advice once you are serious... (NAL - but what I learnt might not be right but its what I was told)
1. Find a solicitor and register with them in advance. You cant personally make an offer like in England, it has to be from a solicitor - as offers can be binding.
2. Scottish house prices which say "offers over" are normally c.5-10% below the expected value. You need to email the agent and request the Home Report. This is a c30 page document but in conclusion will put a value on the property. MOST of the time this value is the minimum you should offer. I have friends who have seen our move and "have been looking on right move" and they see a really nice place - 500k "offers over" and then I have to disappoint them by telling them its probably valued at £550k and might sell for quite a bit more than that.... suddenly that "cheap" house looks a lot more expensive.
In your case an 800k property - honestly I would expect it to be closer to £1m. HR value might be 900k. You are just best off asking for the report from the start - before you even view. That said if it sits on the market for a long time they might take just under HR value.
3. If a property comes on to the market tomorrow and you view and you like it you should not make an offer straight away but you should instruct your new bezza mate Scottish solicitor to submit a "note of interest" to the conveyancer. You then wait for the conveyancer to either ask for your offer or they write to you with a closing date. The former, you start low (but not under HR) and work up. The later you usually get one try.... so make it a good offer. Closing dates are very common - its like best and final. Most sales that have more than 2 people with notes of interest go to closing date.
4. As you now know, the taxes in Scotland are considerably higher - about 2x in England.
5. The process happens much quicker. When you have an offer accepted the property goes "under offer". At this point you have to agree missives (contract) and basically this can literally take 3-4 weeks at the most. Then you have to sign and agree a date of access (completion date) which again is usually fast 3-4 weeks. So you can be done and dusted in 8 weeks, very easily. Our solicitor told us that its not unusual for her to have an offer accepted and completion within 4-6 weeks.
6. Its a minor point but Scotland has some weird holidays and bank holidays. Just be aware - as it caught us out twice through the process!
7. Properties that have been on the market >6 months might take less than HR value... but you need to tread carefully.
8. When you are in the final stages of agreeing missives there is an opportunity to revise your offer but this should only be done if there is a genuine reason i.e you found something wrong in the HR and it would cost £n to sort out then offer becomes offer-n.
From personal experience I can tell you that you have to have deep pockets when it comes to the nice properties as the offers can get a bit out of control. We paid c.60k over asking. Then well over 30k in stamp duty. We were cash buyers and I think this helped. Some sellers wont sell to English people in a chain with mortgages etc. It just takes too long for them.
Its a brilliant place to live, there is - IMO - a significantly better quality of life here despite it just being part of the UK. Also, not sure how rural I would want to go - just as a heads up. It can get very remote very quickly. Which sounds great, but in reality its quite the challenge.
We love it here and should have moved up here years ago but you live and learn. The process of buying a house here is much more simple than in England and once that offer is accepted you have to be 100% committed as it happens very quickly.
Just watch yourself when you are looking for solicitors - I was being quoted £4-5k+ just for the conveyancing. I think they hear the price and "English" and its a free for all. Thankfully I found a small local firm, called up yep no problem we can do £750 plus disbursements...
Turned out our solicitor was an old friend of the people who we bought off. As I found happens quite often being a small town everyone knows everyone.
Not much else I can remember. Council tax is more, but it includes your water. Assuming it even has water if its rural.
We viewed about half a dozen places before we found our house - we gradually got closer and closer to town.... as we realised that was better for us. The rural properties can offer amazing value for money but I got the feeling they are much harder to sell.
HTH
My advice once you are serious... (NAL - but what I learnt might not be right but its what I was told)
1. Find a solicitor and register with them in advance. You cant personally make an offer like in England, it has to be from a solicitor - as offers can be binding.
2. Scottish house prices which say "offers over" are normally c.5-10% below the expected value. You need to email the agent and request the Home Report. This is a c30 page document but in conclusion will put a value on the property. MOST of the time this value is the minimum you should offer. I have friends who have seen our move and "have been looking on right move" and they see a really nice place - 500k "offers over" and then I have to disappoint them by telling them its probably valued at £550k and might sell for quite a bit more than that.... suddenly that "cheap" house looks a lot more expensive.
In your case an 800k property - honestly I would expect it to be closer to £1m. HR value might be 900k. You are just best off asking for the report from the start - before you even view. That said if it sits on the market for a long time they might take just under HR value.
3. If a property comes on to the market tomorrow and you view and you like it you should not make an offer straight away but you should instruct your new bezza mate Scottish solicitor to submit a "note of interest" to the conveyancer. You then wait for the conveyancer to either ask for your offer or they write to you with a closing date. The former, you start low (but not under HR) and work up. The later you usually get one try.... so make it a good offer. Closing dates are very common - its like best and final. Most sales that have more than 2 people with notes of interest go to closing date.
4. As you now know, the taxes in Scotland are considerably higher - about 2x in England.
5. The process happens much quicker. When you have an offer accepted the property goes "under offer". At this point you have to agree missives (contract) and basically this can literally take 3-4 weeks at the most. Then you have to sign and agree a date of access (completion date) which again is usually fast 3-4 weeks. So you can be done and dusted in 8 weeks, very easily. Our solicitor told us that its not unusual for her to have an offer accepted and completion within 4-6 weeks.
6. Its a minor point but Scotland has some weird holidays and bank holidays. Just be aware - as it caught us out twice through the process!
7. Properties that have been on the market >6 months might take less than HR value... but you need to tread carefully.
8. When you are in the final stages of agreeing missives there is an opportunity to revise your offer but this should only be done if there is a genuine reason i.e you found something wrong in the HR and it would cost £n to sort out then offer becomes offer-n.
From personal experience I can tell you that you have to have deep pockets when it comes to the nice properties as the offers can get a bit out of control. We paid c.60k over asking. Then well over 30k in stamp duty. We were cash buyers and I think this helped. Some sellers wont sell to English people in a chain with mortgages etc. It just takes too long for them.
Its a brilliant place to live, there is - IMO - a significantly better quality of life here despite it just being part of the UK. Also, not sure how rural I would want to go - just as a heads up. It can get very remote very quickly. Which sounds great, but in reality its quite the challenge.
We love it here and should have moved up here years ago but you live and learn. The process of buying a house here is much more simple than in England and once that offer is accepted you have to be 100% committed as it happens very quickly.
Just watch yourself when you are looking for solicitors - I was being quoted £4-5k+ just for the conveyancing. I think they hear the price and "English" and its a free for all. Thankfully I found a small local firm, called up yep no problem we can do £750 plus disbursements...
Turned out our solicitor was an old friend of the people who we bought off. As I found happens quite often being a small town everyone knows everyone.
Not much else I can remember. Council tax is more, but it includes your water. Assuming it even has water if its rural.
We viewed about half a dozen places before we found our house - we gradually got closer and closer to town.... as we realised that was better for us. The rural properties can offer amazing value for money but I got the feeling they are much harder to sell.
HTH
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