Ebay authentication process.

[Furbo]

I have seen it in action twice and have been stunned with how quick it is. I sold a JLC and it went via them to the buyer in three days.

My son bought a Cartier on Sunday evening and it arrived today.

However...

The Cartier he bought has only one spare link and is sized for a very small woman. He has an 18cm wrist and need three additional links. He is not as "watchy" as me and didn't ask about spare links because it was listed for "a man or a woman".

He has been in touch with Cartier about the price of links and they have confirmed £690 and ten weeks.... ouch.

They helpfully also confirmed that the watch he bought is not in fact a Santos Galbee but a Caree.

He has gone back the the seller about the links. If no resolution is forthcoming he intends to return the watch as not being what was advertised.

It is an interesting test for Ebay's authentication process, however. They are correct that it is a genuine Cartier. It is just not the right model...

[fflump]

Furbo said:

I have seen it in action twice and have been stunned with how quick it is. I sold a JLC and it went via them to the buyer in three days.

My son bought a Cartier on Sunday evening and it arrived today.

However...

The Cartier he bought has only one spare link and is sized for a very small woman. He has an 18cm wrist and need three additional links. He is not as "watchy" as me and didn't ask about spare links because it was listed for "a man or a woman".

He has been in touch with Cartier about the price of links and they have confirmed £690 and ten weeks.... ouch.

They helpfully also confirmed that the watch he bought is not in fact a Santos Galbee but a Caree.

He has gone back the the seller about the links. If no resolution is forthcoming he intends to return the watch as not being what was advertised.

It is an interesting test for Ebay's authentication process, however. They are correct that it is a genuine Cartier. It is just not the right model...

To be fair to EBay they are both Cartier Santos models with the Carree being the predecessor to the Galbee. I guess you have to be realistic as to whether eBay should be able to distinguish a 70s/80s Santos from its 80s successor.

[Furbo]

fflump said:

Furbo said:

I have seen it in action twice and have been stunned with how quick it is. I sold a JLC and it went via them to the buyer in three days.

My son bought a Cartier on Sunday evening and it arrived today.

However...

The Cartier he bought has only one spare link and is sized for a very small woman. He has an 18cm wrist and need three additional links. He is not as "watchy" as me and didn't ask about spare links because it was listed for "a man or a woman".

He has been in touch with Cartier about the price of links and they have confirmed £690 and ten weeks.... ouch.

They helpfully also confirmed that the watch he bought is not in fact a Santos Galbee but a Caree.

He has gone back the the seller about the links. If no resolution is forthcoming he intends to return the watch as not being what was advertised.

It is an interesting test for Ebay's authentication process, however. They are correct that it is a genuine Cartier. It is just not the right model...

To be fair to EBay they are both Cartier Santos models with the Carree being the predecessor to the Galbee. I guess you have to be realistic as to whether eBay should be able to distinguish a 70s/80s Santos from its 80s successor.

I would expect them to be able to distinguish the two I think. He paid for verification that the watch was as described. It wasn't, it was an older and less valuable model.

He has been back to the seller, who has offered to pay 50% of the price of extra links. However the watch was already fully priced and it looks to be a PITA to source links.

[fflump]

Furbo said:

fflump said:

Furbo said:

I have seen it in action twice and have been stunned with how quick it is. I sold a JLC and it went via them to the buyer in three days.

My son bought a Cartier on Sunday evening and it arrived today.

However...

The Cartier he bought has only one spare link and is sized for a very small woman. He has an 18cm wrist and need three additional links. He is not as "watchy" as me and didn't ask about spare links because it was listed for "a man or a woman".

He has been in touch with Cartier about the price of links and they have confirmed £690 and ten weeks.... ouch.

They helpfully also confirmed that the watch he bought is not in fact a Santos Galbee but a Caree.

He has gone back the the seller about the links. If no resolution is forthcoming he intends to return the watch as not being what was advertised.

It is an interesting test for Ebay's authentication process, however. They are correct that it is a genuine Cartier. It is just not the right model...

To be fair to EBay they are both Cartier Santos models with the Carree being the predecessor to the Galbee. I guess you have to be realistic as to whether eBay should be able to distinguish a 70s/80s Santos from its 80s successor.

I would expect them to be able to distinguish the two I think. He paid for verification that the watch was as described. It wasn't, it was an older and less valuable model.

He has been back to the seller, who has offered to pay 50% of the price of extra links. However the watch was already fully priced and it looks to be a PITA to source links.

He paid for verification?
I wasn’t aware there was a charge for this?
I agree that it is a potential way of getting out of the sale though if you can persuade EBay that their authentication was incorrect. However it’s naive to think they are infallible when it comes to old watches with subtle differences.
As for missing links I guess it’s a case of caveat emptor with buying decades old watches sight unseen.

[Furbo]

fflump said:

As for missing links I guess it’s a case of caveat emptor with buying decades old watches sight unseen.

I would take the view that when the description says "suitable for a woman or a man" there is a reasonable assumption that it will fit at least fit a man with a relatively small wrist. It in fact, fits my wife, who weight exactly 7 stone!

If an item has a significant limitation, that will impact upon a buyer's ability to use the item, I think it needs to be disclosed.

[CrippsCorner]

Are they verifying the watch is the model in the advert... or are they simply verifying that's it's a genuine watch? I don't know what the distinction is from eBay.

I think you've got lucky with the links offer too there, as simply saying it's for a man means it'd fit a man, in theory, which it will, if you buy the links. I wouldn't say the seller lied there, maybe a being a bit cheeky but there you are.

[dom9]

Will be interested in hearing the outcome of this.

I think the distinction between the watch being correctly (or not) described vs correctly (or not) authenticated is important.

ebay authenticated it (as genuine, I believe), any issue with that is on them. The seller described it, any issue with that is on him/her/them.

The links issue is very much caveat emptor. We've all missed one tyre being a different brand or whatever on a 2nd hand car.

I always count links or budget for extra... I always check tyres... having learnt the lesson.

If the watch is returned because it's a different model - that would sit fine with me. For the links, no.

[Furbo]

dom9 said:

Will be interested in hearing the outcome of this.

I think the distinction between the watch being correctly (or not) described vs correctly (or not) authenticated is important.

ebay authenticated it (as genuine, I believe), any issue with that is on them. The seller described it, any issue with that is on him/her/them.

The links issue is very much caveat emptor. We've all missed one tyre being a different brand or whatever on a 2nd hand car.

I always count links or budget for extra... I always check tyres... having learnt the lesson.

If the watch is returned because it's a different model - that would sit fine with me. For the links, no.

It’s a bit like someone selling a Rolex sub 14060 as a 114060. Similar looking watches but not the same. But I suspect EBay would have picked up on that.

Links - I see what you’re saying. But if I’d sold the watch I’d fully expect to get it back. I don’t think it’s fair to sell something aa unisex which only the very smallest woman can wear.

[ESSEM123]

The Ebay authenticator is contracted to check that the watch is genuine AND that it is as described in the listing, therefore the authenticator should not have sent the watch on.

I would also suggest that if the watch was described as "mens" and "used" then the lack of extra links to make the watch wearable (by a male) would also justify a "not as described" return.

[Furbo]

ESSEM123 said:

The Ebay authenticator is contracted to check that the watch is genuine AND that it is as described in the listing, therefore the authenticator should not have sent the watch on.

I would also suggest that if the watch was described as "mens" and "used" then the lack of extra links to make the watch wearable (by a male) would also justify a "not as described" return.

This is my thinking.

[fflump]

Furbo said:

dom9 said:

Will be interested in hearing the outcome of this.

I think the distinction between the watch being correctly (or not) described vs correctly (or not) authenticated is important.

ebay authenticated it (as genuine, I believe), any issue with that is on them. The seller described it, any issue with that is on him/her/them.

The links issue is very much caveat emptor. We've all missed one tyre being a different brand or whatever on a 2nd hand car.

I always count links or budget for extra... I always check tyres... having learnt the lesson.

If the watch is returned because it's a different model - that would sit fine with me. For the links, no.

It’s a bit like someone selling a Rolex sub 14060 as a 114060. Similar looking watches but not the same. But I suspect EBay would have picked up on that.

Links - I see what you’re saying. But if I’d sold the watch I’d fully expect to get it back. I don’t think it’s fair to sell something aa unisex which only the very smallest woman can wear.

It's a bit different to the 14060 vs. 114060 as the 114060 is a pretty modern watch (came out in the 2010s) and the first with a ceramic bezel, not too mention the commonest luxury watch in the world.

We're talking about a Cartier Santos model that changed nearly 40 years ago. I agree it is definitely the basis to request a refund, but to expect an eBay authenticator to spot it? It's asking too much IMO. The buyer should examine the pictures.

As for the links-I'd advise the OP to accurately measure the bracelet and state how many links are missing, plus measure the circumference of the largest wrist you can get it to fit on e.g. your wife? If you can then state that this is not remotely close to the wrist of an average man then you may be able to convince eBay that it is mis-described as unisex.

[Furbo]

fflump said:

Furbo said:

dom9 said:

Will be interested in hearing the outcome of this.

I think the distinction between the watch being correctly (or not) described vs correctly (or not) authenticated is important.

ebay authenticated it (as genuine, I believe), any issue with that is on them. The seller described it, any issue with that is on him/her/them.

The links issue is very much caveat emptor. We've all missed one tyre being a different brand or whatever on a 2nd hand car.

I always count links or budget for extra... I always check tyres... having learnt the lesson.

If the watch is returned because it's a different model - that would sit fine with me. For the links, no.

It’s a bit like someone selling a Rolex sub 14060 as a 114060. Similar looking watches but not the same. But I suspect EBay would have picked up on that.

Links - I see what you’re saying. But if I’d sold the watch I’d fully expect to get it back. I don’t think it’s fair to sell something aa unisex which only the very smallest woman can wear.

It's a bit different to the 14060 vs. 114060 as the 114060 is a pretty modern watch (came out in the 2010s) and the first with a ceramic bezel, not too mention the commonest luxury watch in the world.

We're talking about a Cartier Santos model that changed nearly 40 years ago. I agree it is definitely the basis to request a refund, but to expect an eBay authenticator to spot it? It's asking too much IMO. The buyer should examine the pictures.

As for the links-I'd advise the OP to accurately measure the bracelet and state how many links are missing, plus measure the circumference of the largest wrist you can get it to fit on e.g. your wife? If you can then state that this is not remotely close to the wrist of an average man then you may be able to convince eBay that it is mis-described as unisex.

When you look at a Caree vs a Galbee they are actually quite different. The latter has a curved case and different links.

I wasn’t involved with the buying process and only became so when the size was an issue. I did casually query what age it was, prior, when I saw the bracelet. But didn’t think to delve further.

He has done as you suggest re the wrist size.

[fflump]

But presumably not so different that it was obvious to the buyer from the pictures?
Buying vintage watches without paperwork is a tricky business in person let alone online.

My guess is that for most old watches all the eBay guy will do is check whether it is the same watch as in the advert and check that it is a genuine Cartier.

I would not even rely on them to distinguish a Rolex GMT Master 16700 from a 16710 and these are more popular watches from that era.

[Furbo]

fflump said:

But presumably not so different that it was obvious to the buyer from the pictures?
Buying vintage watches without paperwork is a tricky business in person let alone online.

.

My son isn't a watch expert (nor am I, but more than he is).

The watch came with its original papers and service papers from two years ago. None of which name the model.

It's actually a very nice thing, but there appear to be no links for it for sale on Ebay. Plenty of Galbee or non-descript. So he simply cannot wear it, unless he buys links from Cartier, in which case he can wear it £690 and ten weeks later.

The shame of it is that he spent money that he saved up over the summer on his first "decent" watch and this has happened. Maybe I should have overseen him more, but he is of an age where I don't want to be involved in his every action. He is his own man. He should get his money back, so maybe it will serve as a good early lesson in buying watches at auction, without too much long-term damage.