Speeding and failure to give identification information
Discussion
Long time lurker and occasional poster asking for some advice please?
I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
Its a bit late because you've pleaded guilty, but the basic way to defend this is lodge a "plea bargain" where you plead not guilty to both, but acknowledge you tried to respond to the NIP and failed in some way or other. But if they accept the late info, they don't do you for "failing to furnish...." and they just have the chance to do you for the speeding; or vice versa.
No doubt someone else will be along with a bunch of corrections and the actual process.
No doubt someone else will be along with a bunch of corrections and the actual process.
I suggest you go and post on the alternative Pepipoo forum, they are geared for these sort of problems.
https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=oi21h5pan5...
https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?PHPSESSID=oi21h5pan5...
John_LCR said:
Long time lurker and occasional poster asking for some advice please?
I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
Firstly represent yourself . Solicitors will simply send the Office Tea Boy as anyone with any talent will be engaged in more profitable work . Another thing is that in my experience , Magistrates are understanding and appreciate a fellow member of the Public addressing them personally . Get your facts succinctly written down and take things from there . I was in exactly the same position at Wellingborough Magistrates last year facing a Ban for an MS90 Offence .I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
In my case it was one of my Company Vans which unbeknown to me had gone through a camera with the Driver on the phone . I had moved address and received no paperwork but unfortunately as I was the registered keeper of the vehicle the offence fell to me . I think you will have difficulty in avoiding the 6 Points but at least you wont be paying for a Lawyer and then the same outcome
John_LCR said:
Long time lurker and occasional poster asking for some advice please?
I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
It looks to me like your plea of guilty has not been accepted because you presented a defence (postal rules law possibly).I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
1. Section 7 Interpretation Act 1978 applies
Section 7 provides:
"Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."
There is a Barrister on here who might be able to help you. AGT law.
John_LCR said:
Long time lurker and occasional poster asking for some advice please?
I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
This can be easily resolved.I was caught doing 51 in a 40 last December, received paperwork, filled in as I was the keeper and driver and posted back all within a few days. But my wife gave me an out of date second class stamp unbeknown to me at the time.
I heard nothing until 2nd February when I got the form returned to me by Royal Mail due to the stamp no longer valid for postage. I realised that if they had not received the form and I was outside the time allocated this would default to me but I did not appreciate that I may receive a fine and potentially 6 points.
Beginning April I received a single justice procedure notice for the speeding and failure to give identification information. I went online and pleaded guilty but asked for it to be considered in court due to the mitigating circumstances. I have a date in court for January 2026.
I'd clearly like to avoid the potential 6 points of failing to give information as I did give it but they did not receive it. There was no intent to withhold the information.
Should I be taking legal advice or can I / should I represent myself?
What is the likelihood of the 6 points (or less) either with legal advice or going it alone?
many thanks, John
You elected a court hearing and a court hearing is listed.
Your formal plea can be dealt with at that hearing. The court will not record a conviction as you requested a hearing. Therefore the guilty plea(s) can be undone without resistance.
Attend court. Plead guilty to speeding and the other (more serious offence) will be withdrawn.
You don’t need representation for something this straightforward.
Avoid the Foolish Traffic Legal Advice Forum mentioned above.
I guess it comes down to "properly pre-paying and posting" though
It would seem a disproportionate outcome to get 6 points and hopefully you've still got the returned letter with royal mail insufficient postage on it. You would hope a magistrate was both allowed discretion and uses it.
It would seem a disproportionate outcome to get 6 points and hopefully you've still got the returned letter with royal mail insufficient postage on it. You would hope a magistrate was both allowed discretion and uses it.
kestral said:
It looks to me like your plea of guilty has not been accepted
More or less correct.Proceedings commenced via the Single Justice Procedure and the defendant asked for a hearing. Therefore, the court did not process a conviction - a court hearing is listed and formal pleas will be entered at that hearing.
agtlaw said:
....
Attend court. Plead guilty to speeding and the other (more serious offence) will be withdrawn.
I don't doubt you - but if you could just clarify;Attend court. Plead guilty to speeding and the other (more serious offence) will be withdrawn.
In this case, the speeding was last December. Can that still be prosecuted or has it timed-out?
i.e. can you plead guilty to timed-out offence in order to avoid the FtF?
No ideas for a name said:
I don't doubt you - but if you could just clarify;
In this case, the speeding was last December. Can that still be prosecuted or has it timed-out?
i.e. can you plead guilty to timed-out offence in order to avoid the FtF?
The speeding has not timed out because you got the SJPN in April within the 6mnth TL.In this case, the speeding was last December. Can that still be prosecuted or has it timed-out?
i.e. can you plead guilty to timed-out offence in order to avoid the FtF?
So you are not pleading to a timed out offence.
agtlaw said:
kestral said:
The speeding has not timed out because you got the SJPN in April within the 6mnth TL.
So you are not pleading to a timed out offence.
Correct. Very strange question.So you are not pleading to a timed out offence.
It was a NIP he got in December.
SJPN in April when he effectively hadn't replied.
Sorry!
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