Pulling on the lead - any tips?

[hairykrishna]

Our sprollie Brian is an absolute nightmare on the lead. Everything else he's been a doddle to teach as he's insanely smart and eager to please. Great recall, drops even interesting stuff done command etc. I've tried the usual of standing still when he pulls and not setting off until he stops but it's literally an hour of stop, one step, stop. Our other sprollie got the idea on about 5 minutes when he was a pup.

Tried both just his collar and a harness with no difference. I have a check chain but I've only ever, briefly, used that before when the dog was good on the lead but not so good at walking to heel.

Any ideas?

[super7]

Interested here…. We have a 10mth old Golden Retriever! She’s gone from being good on the lead, to being an *******

I’m trying to tell myself it’s her teenage time, but being 30kg and powerful with it, walks can be very challenging and not fun for either of us… Funnily enough recall and off lead she’s very good!

Latest trick of holding the lead behind my back restricts how far she can go ahead and keeps her in the heel position and restricts how much power she can use!

[fttm]

Was going to suggest a harness but I see you’ve tried one . You can get an attachment that goes over their nose which seems to work , never tried it but maybe an idea ?

[Parsnip]

Walk until dog pulls. Stop. Wait until dog comes to heel. Start walking again. Repeat until dog gets it. As you say, takes ages, but its the easiest way.

A slip lead or a figure 8 also work well - I hate harnesses personally - only times we put our lab in one is when she is in the back of the car or I'm running with her and I actively want her to pull.

Edited by Parsnip on Wednesday 3rd September 09:18

[Chocmonster]

I use a Canny Collar headcollar for my Lurcher.

He's 28kg and has a high prey drive, when he spots a small dog, cat or squirrel I need to be able to hold on!

I tried other headcollars but I like the Canny as the part you clip the lead onto is at the back of his head rather than under his chin. It has a fixed collar then a part which goes over the nose and works in the same way as a figure of 8 lead.

https://www.cannyco.co.uk

[millik]

Had this issue with our lab when he was around 1. Did as you did of stopping when he was pulling, then carrying on or, if the location permits, moving in a different direction. It took a long LONG time but it did work.

[hairykrishna]

Chocmonster said:

I use a Canny Collar headcollar for my Lurcher.

He's 28kg and has a high prey drive, when he spots a small dog, cat or squirrel I need to be able to hold on!

I tried other headcollars but I like the Canny as the part you clip the lead onto is at the back of his head rather than under his chin. It has a fixed collar then a part which goes over the nose and works in the same way as a figure of 8 lead.

https://www.cannyco.co.uk

That looks interesting. I might give it a try.

[Badda]

Halti Optifit Headcollar

[White-Noise]

Have you have got the dog being good at walking to heel at home and then translate it into outside?

[SoliD]

As above, takes a while and definitely one of the longest things to teach, and one that does seem to improve then go completely backwards at times! Ours is mostly fine, but lots of rewards for time spent to heal, stopping until back by your side, changing direction so they know you're in charge, make sure you're not always walking to the same place. If they are good off the lead walking to heal, but you always do it in the same place, change it up and put them on the lead there instead.

[Charlie1986]

Don’t use a harness it allows them to put more effort in to pulling

With 2 strong GWP’s I know the pain and we use one of these on them both to regain the control of the head and bring them to heal

https://www.gundog-catalogue.co.uk/products/field-...

[oddman]

This sounds simple to the point of patronising.

The way you stop a dog pulling is don't let it.

Pulling is something the dog has learned gets a reward. In some cases the dog thinks that pulling is what causes you to walk forward. Every time you let it pull you're reinforcing the unacceptable behaviour.

Part of the problem is the expectation that dogs need to be 'walked' and people are busy. Dogs need stimulation and training but the ritual of a lead walk is not at all natural or easy for a dog. Walk on a lead is often a transitional activity before the real fun starts (eg. running free in a park) so dog might be revved up about what's to come and just wants to get the lead bit over. There also the problem that recall and stop/stay/wait commands are not rock solid so lead is used as a restraint/management when it shouldn't be required. If recall and stop were perfect then the requirement for the lead would diminish but always there as a back up.

It is utterly miserable and tedious but dogs can and should be trained not to pull. I've got 2 spaniels. Getting them to walk acceptably to heel was by far the most difficult aspect of training. They want to and are bred to hunt in front of you and naturally move at a pace faster than a walking human. Many of my mates who work their dogs and are trained to a decent standard give up on this because it is just so difficult and they are pulled by their dogs between drives. I'm surprised their hands don't drag on the floor. Another measure of how difficult lead work can be and how entirely separate to other aspects of training it is, is that a lot of prefessional gundog trainers won't even put a lead on their dogs until they are six months old. These people keep their dogs in kennels and have direct access to paddocks so they can drill the basics in a very controlled environment unlike the rest of us.

For me lead work was completely separate from other training and I set aside time to do it. Only about 10 or 15 minutes a day. Started in the house, then the garden, then the immediate neighbourhood. Shortish lead (I always use a slip lead) If you're right handed loop in right hand, left hand holding lead going to dog. When gets ahead and begins to tighten on lead (even before it pulls) take a half step back bringing dog to an abrupt halt. Maybe an 'Ah Ah' as a check but no chastisement. Don't start walking again until dog is where it should be. Make walk unpredictable making right angled and about turns. If you're slick you can reward dog when it's in the right place with treats, clicker or vocal praise depending on what works for your dog. I drag my foot to make a scraping sound when they are creeping forward just before halting. After a while the sound of the scrape slows the dog. Mine have never walked on lead like a good retriever or GSP will. The little buggers are always edging forward but they don't pull. Ironically they heel better when not on a lead (probably because we're already in a fun place and not going to a fun place). They also heel better when I have them together as they seem to be vying to be closest to me.

A way of taking pressure off might be to go for stimulation and training somewhere the dog can be off lead the whole time. If this sounds like a problem then stopping and recall need working on as well. After a while heel work can become part of a game eg. drop a ball, keep dog at heel, sit dog, walk on yourself send back for ball. This can build up to multiple sits and heels with or without retrieves.

Bottom line is can you be more stubborn and determined than your dog? the result you get is what you are prepared to accept.

[hairykrishna]

oddman said:

Part of the problem is the expectation that dogs need to be 'walked' and people are busy. Dogs need stimulation and training but the ritual of a lead walk is not at all natural or easy for a dog. Walk on a lead is often a transitional activity before the real fun starts (eg. running free in a park) so dog might be revved up about what's to come and just wants to get the lead bit over. There also the problem that recall and stop/stay/wait commands are not rock solid so lead is used as a restraint/management when it shouldn't be required. If recall and stop were perfect then the requirement for the lead would diminish but always there as a back up.

I think this is largely the problem. He can't wait to get to the park/field that's at the end of the lead bit. Our older dog, who I trained not to pull easily, is also interested in checking out interesting smells etc along the way so is less focussed on the end of the part on the lead.

His recall and wait are excellent. But I always like to keep the lead anyway for the walks close to busy roads etc just as a precaution. It's frustrating as without the lead I'm sure the little bugger would stick close to me. I suppose I shall just have to persist. Given how easily he has grasped almost everything else it's a very long process though.

[millik]

hairykrishna said:

I think this is largely the problem. He can't wait to get to the park/field that's at the end of the lead bit. Our older dog, who I trained not to pull easily, is also interested in checking out interesting smells etc along the way so is less focussed on the end of the part on the lead.

His recall and wait are excellent. But I always like to keep the lead anyway for the walks close to busy roads etc just as a precaution. It's frustrating as without the lead I'm sure the little bugger would stick close to me. I suppose I shall just have to persist. Given how easily he has grasped almost everything else it's a very long process though.

A long process but definitely worth it!

[ben5575]

I've used this guy's videos for training my dogs and it really works. Backs up a lot of Oddman's excellent observations and advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-eKSSuUaz4&li...

Like all things, you need to invest your time and effort for the best results

[oddman]

hairykrishna said:

oddman said:

Part of the problem is the expectation that dogs need to be 'walked' and people are busy. Dogs need stimulation and training but the ritual of a lead walk is not at all natural or easy for a dog. Walk on a lead is often a transitional activity before the real fun starts (eg. running free in a park) so dog might be revved up about what's to come and just wants to get the lead bit over. There also the problem that recall and stop/stay/wait commands are not rock solid so lead is used as a restraint/management when it shouldn't be required. If recall and stop were perfect then the requirement for the lead would diminish but always there as a back up.

I think this is largely the problem. He can't wait to get to the park/field that's at the end of the lead bit. Our older dog, who I trained not to pull easily, is also interested in checking out interesting smells etc along the way so is less focussed on the end of the part on the lead.

His recall and wait are excellent. But I always like to keep the lead anyway for the walks close to busy roads etc just as a precaution. It's frustrating as without the lead I'm sure the little bugger would stick close to me. I suppose I shall just have to persist. Given how easily he has grasped almost everything else it's a very long process though.

If possible it might be worth driving or getting a lift to the park/field and doing the lead practice totally separately until it's dialled. If this isn't possible and you really want to get the message home, sack off the park/field and turn around if he fks about on the walk in.

If I had the space/facilities, I would never walk my dogs. Just training/play and work. Walking has so many pitfalls and hazards it just gives them the opportunity to fail.

[dci]

hairykrishna said:

I think this is largely the problem. He can't wait to get to the park/field that's at the end of the lead bit. Our older dog, who I trained not to pull easily, is also interested in checking out interesting smells etc along the way so is less focussed on the end of the part on the lead.

Then he doesn't get to the field. You're never going to get the message to sink in if he gets the prize regardless.

Only thing I would add to the above, very good posts, is that you need to add a verbal heel command so the dog gets to understand what you want from him when you give the command.

Walk - dog pulls - stop - put dog into the heel position and call 'heel' - proceed only when dog is stopped in heel position- repeat.

I teach my dogs this as pups and it normally takes a while even at the sponge brain stage.

[oddman]

dci said:

Only thing I would add to the above, very good posts, is that you need to add a verbal heel command so the dog gets to understand what you want from him when you give the command.

Good point. I forgot this. My own heel command is so quiet it's barely a murmur. They've got great hearing so doesn't need to be loud.

Also. Anyone else who wants to walk the dog at heel should do the training too. They're very specific in their learning and will not walk nicely if that person has not been through the process.

[anyoldcardave]

oddman said:

This sounds simple to the point of patronising.

The way you stop a dog pulling is don't let it.

Pulling is something the dog has learned gets a reward. In some cases the dog thinks that pulling is what causes you to walk forward. Every time you let it pull you're reinforcing the unacceptable behaviour.

Part of the problem is the expectation that dogs need to be 'walked' and people are busy. Dogs need stimulation and training but the ritual of a lead walk is not at all natural or easy for a dog. Walk on a lead is often a transitional activity before the real fun starts (eg. running free in a park) so dog might be revved up about what's to come and just wants to get the lead bit over. There also the problem that recall and stop/stay/wait commands are not rock solid so lead is used as a restraint/management when it shouldn't be required. If recall and stop were perfect then the requirement for the lead would diminish but always there as a back up.

It is utterly miserable and tedious but dogs can and should be trained not to pull. I've got 2 spaniels. Getting them to walk acceptably to heel was by far the most difficult aspect of training. They want to and are bred to hunt in front of you and naturally move at a pace faster than a walking human. Many of my mates who work their dogs and are trained to a decent standard give up on this because it is just so difficult and they are pulled by their dogs between drives. I'm surprised their hands don't drag on the floor. Another measure of how difficult lead work can be and how entirely separate to other aspects of training it is, is that a lot of prefessional gundog trainers won't even put a lead on their dogs until they are six months old. These people keep their dogs in kennels and have direct access to paddocks so they can drill the basics in a very controlled environment unlike the rest of us.

For me lead work was completely separate from other training and I set aside time to do it. Only about 10 or 15 minutes a day. Started in the house, then the garden, then the immediate neighbourhood. Shortish lead (I always use a slip lead) If you're right handed loop in right hand, left hand holding lead going to dog. When gets ahead and begins to tighten on lead (even before it pulls) take a half step back bringing dog to an abrupt halt. Maybe an 'Ah Ah' as a check but no chastisement. Don't start walking again until dog is where it should be. Make walk unpredictable making right angled and about turns. If you're slick you can reward dog when it's in the right place with treats, clicker or vocal praise depending on what works for your dog. I drag my foot to make a scraping sound when they are creeping forward just before halting. After a while the sound of the scrape slows the dog. Mine have never walked on lead like a good retriever or GSP will. The little buggers are always edging forward but they don't pull. Ironically they heel better when not on a lead (probably because we're already in a fun place and not going to a fun place). They also heel better when I have them together as they seem to be vying to be closest to me.

A way of taking pressure off might be to go for stimulation and training somewhere the dog can be off lead the whole time. If this sounds like a problem then stopping and recall need working on as well. After a while heel work can become part of a game eg. drop a ball, keep dog at heel, sit dog, walk on yourself send back for ball. This can build up to multiple sits and heels with or without retrieves.

Bottom line is can you be more stubborn and determined than your dog? the result you get is what you are prepared to accept.

It is the only way though, and by doing this I found I never put a lead on him again, except on dangerous roads or those without footpaths, not walking the streets or in the park/forest where he had his freedom to run, and this was with a one year old Boxer/springer, dumped in a garden with no training or socialising that would bite me for food. He did not know how to drink from a bowl, I had to leave the garden tap on, it was the only way he knew, until I realised putting a bowl under it worked lol.

It took over 2 years though, to deal with all the issues, the breeds can be a handful anyway, but this one would have had little chance of survival without it, now gone @ 14.5 and all that effort was worth every second of it. A well trained dog is an absolute joy.

[oddman]

anyoldcardave said:

It is the only way though, and by doing this I found I never put a lead on him again, except on dangerous roads or those without footpaths, not walking the streets or in the park/forest where he had his freedom to run, and this was with a one year old Boxer/springer, dumped in a garden with no training or socialising that would bite me for food. He did not know how to drink from a bowl, I had to leave the garden tap on, it was the only way he knew, until I realised putting a bowl under it worked lol.

It took over 2 years though, to deal with all the issues, the breeds can be a handful anyway, but this one would have had little chance of survival without it, now gone @ 14.5 and all that effort was worth every second of it. A well trained dog is an absolute joy.

Amazing. I choose a breed of dog noted for trainability which is well bred from lines proven for success in competition and the field and have the opportunuity to see the litter multiple times before I choose a pup. Then put my mistakes into it, make less of a dog than it could be in the best hands and this still tries the limits of my ability and patience.

I have the utmost admiration for anyone who can do anything with a rescue and give it a good life.