New fence help
Discussion
At the back of our garden we have 6 conifers that we'd like to take out as they are very old and have spread to be about 7-8 feet deep, so we are losing a lot of garden. The trees are around 12-15 feet high
At the same time the wooden fence is around 40 years old and has rotted out, is failing. It's about 15m long we'd want to replace, on the right of the picture.
We've been speaking to our neighbour at the back about how we maintain privacy for us both and run into some problems
Excuse the dodgy diagram, a bit of a cutaway for the idea
Her garden is about 2 foot lower than ours. I've no idea what was holding our garden back, but the previous neighbour built a retaining wall about 3 feet high-ish, about 3-4 feet width back from our fence and filled it full of soil, about a foot up our fence to create a massive raised flower bed. To counter the rotting of the fence possibility he backed it with corrugated iron that has rotted out, so the base of our fence is rotten
When talking the the neighbour about the plans to remove the trees, she mentioned she wants to remove the raised bed, so now what was a simple job of tree removal and new fence has become complicated.
I've no idea if there's an original lower retaining wall currently that the ex neighbour put the corregated iron against. I might have to dig down our side to see?
If we assume there isn't and the all the soil goes leaving a bare 2 foot drop, we're likely to lose the fence if the concrete is at our level.
If we build a new fence the we can have 2m high our side, but the posts for the new fence will have to go into the ground at her garden level and infill with a retaining wall?
I need suggestions on how to manage the different levels, the fence at our garden height please. What options are available and I guess what would it look like from the neighbors side?
On the brightside, she's talking about getting a digger in to take it all out, which means theres opportunities of using it to take the tree sumps/roots out at the same time, if we take the fence down as well, get the trees chopped down at the same time.
At the same time the wooden fence is around 40 years old and has rotted out, is failing. It's about 15m long we'd want to replace, on the right of the picture.
We've been speaking to our neighbour at the back about how we maintain privacy for us both and run into some problems
Excuse the dodgy diagram, a bit of a cutaway for the idea
Her garden is about 2 foot lower than ours. I've no idea what was holding our garden back, but the previous neighbour built a retaining wall about 3 feet high-ish, about 3-4 feet width back from our fence and filled it full of soil, about a foot up our fence to create a massive raised flower bed. To counter the rotting of the fence possibility he backed it with corrugated iron that has rotted out, so the base of our fence is rotten
When talking the the neighbour about the plans to remove the trees, she mentioned she wants to remove the raised bed, so now what was a simple job of tree removal and new fence has become complicated.
I've no idea if there's an original lower retaining wall currently that the ex neighbour put the corregated iron against. I might have to dig down our side to see?
If we assume there isn't and the all the soil goes leaving a bare 2 foot drop, we're likely to lose the fence if the concrete is at our level.
If we build a new fence the we can have 2m high our side, but the posts for the new fence will have to go into the ground at her garden level and infill with a retaining wall?
I need suggestions on how to manage the different levels, the fence at our garden height please. What options are available and I guess what would it look like from the neighbors side?
On the brightside, she's talking about getting a digger in to take it all out, which means theres opportunities of using it to take the tree sumps/roots out at the same time, if we take the fence down as well, get the trees chopped down at the same time.
Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 2nd September 09:06
Do you know why her garden is 2ft lower than yours?
I think you can still put up a 2m fence on your boundary, but if she doesn't want to be looking at a 2m + 2ft high fence from her side then there may be a problem.
Anyone know what the rules are when a neighbouring property is higher or lower than yours?
I think you can still put up a 2m fence on your boundary, but if she doesn't want to be looking at a 2m + 2ft high fence from her side then there may be a problem.
Anyone know what the rules are when a neighbouring property is higher or lower than yours?
OIC said:
Do you know why her garden is 2ft lower than yours?
I think you can still put up a 2m fence on your boundary, but if she doesn't want to be looking at a 2m + 2ft high fence from her side then there may be a problem.
Anyone know what the rules are when a neighbouring property is higher or lower than yours?
Road height her side (original houses) and the garden at that level, versus estate height built 45+ years ago as the original old road comes uphill and our houses in our close/surrounding roads are all at the higher level.I think you can still put up a 2m fence on your boundary, but if she doesn't want to be looking at a 2m + 2ft high fence from her side then there may be a problem.
Anyone know what the rules are when a neighbouring property is higher or lower than yours?
There's no problem with 2m high fence our side, in fact she wants higher for privacy, but I've no idea what she has in mind as pleasing as a retaining wall.
Neither of us likes our conifers and we've both said we'll assess what needs doing and add planting afterwards. Possible pleached trees with some either side of the fence. I quite like the idea of a multi-stemed silver birch in the corner.
Could I put in high slotted concrete posts with those concrete gravel boards dropped in for the retaining wall bit, then have a nice wooden fence, not panels at the top. Drop in a framework the board it?
I need some ideas of whats possible, so I can make suggestions/work out whats acceptable
Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 2nd September 15:23
I think you also need to conscious of who is responsible for supporting your land and which side of the fence is the natural land level.
I have a similar situation on the rear boundary, houses were built there several decades after mine and the house builder levelled their plots about 2-3 feet below the natural land level including to the pavement and road.
My understanding of this is I have a right of support for my higher land, I have also seen the term 'party boundary' which I believe introduces some party wall type obligations.
No doubt someone more knowledgeable than I will tell me this is all wrong and I might learn something.
For the OP, a dose of caution with this one as it could be messy.
I have a similar situation on the rear boundary, houses were built there several decades after mine and the house builder levelled their plots about 2-3 feet below the natural land level including to the pavement and road.
My understanding of this is I have a right of support for my higher land, I have also seen the term 'party boundary' which I believe introduces some party wall type obligations.
No doubt someone more knowledgeable than I will tell me this is all wrong and I might learn something.
For the OP, a dose of caution with this one as it could be messy.
I think someone has probably had the same dilemma here:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/max-height-for-...
The point about gravel boards being quite thin, only designed to take a vertical load and will shatter under very little sideways pressure is one I would be wary of. I would be going for a retaining all personally, then fix fence posts to that.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/max-height-for-...
The point about gravel boards being quite thin, only designed to take a vertical load and will shatter under very little sideways pressure is one I would be wary of. I would be going for a retaining all personally, then fix fence posts to that.
Shooter McGavin said:
I think someone has probably had the same dilemma here:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/max-height-for-...
The point about gravel boards being quite thin, only designed to take a vertical load and will shatter under very little sideways pressure is one I would be wary of. I would be going for a retaining all personally, then fix fence posts to that.
Thanks, thats kinda the thing I was hoping for, hence asking for help here, thinking it might not be strong enough.https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/max-height-for-...
The point about gravel boards being quite thin, only designed to take a vertical load and will shatter under very little sideways pressure is one I would be wary of. I would be going for a retaining all personally, then fix fence posts to that.
I've dug a hole about a foot deep looking to see if there's an original retaining wall as that fence went in when the house was built in the 80's. The cottage behind is from late 1800's, with their garden running behind mine.
Inbox said:
For the OP, a dose of caution with this one as it could be messy.
We're friendly with the new neighbour, better than the knob that was there before, but we both want to maximise our garden space, me removing the conifers, her removing her raised bed.Now, knowing the knob was a lazy git, I'm hoping there's an original retaining wall, he's put the corrugated iron against it, then backfilled to the new breeze block wall. I've dug down about about 18 inches near a fence post and the concrete isn't very deep for it, which makes me think there must be something there as original structure.
It might be we have to look from the other side to be easier. The ground my side is rock hard
You can stack concrete gravel boards - this was done when our house was built, I assume to give our neighbours the privacy they wanted (sloping site).
I've since built some raised beds using concrete posts & gravel boards, so I guess I'll find out over time whether they can take the pressure. I'm no engineer, but if you were to backfill with gravel on your side wouldn't that alleviate any pressure on a lower gravel board?
I've since built some raised beds using concrete posts & gravel boards, so I guess I'll find out over time whether they can take the pressure. I'm no engineer, but if you were to backfill with gravel on your side wouldn't that alleviate any pressure on a lower gravel board?
CambsBill said:
You can stack concrete gravel boards - this was done when our house was built, I assume to give our neighbours the privacy they wanted (sloping site). ...
I've since built some raised beds using concrete posts & gravel boards, so I guess I'll find out over time whether they can take the pressure. I'm no engineer, but if you were to backfill with gravel on your side wouldn't that alleviate any pressure on a lower gravel board?
In thory they don't work and often fail but they're cheap and a lot of people seem to get away with it for a 2ft height.I've since built some raised beds using concrete posts & gravel boards, so I guess I'll find out over time whether they can take the pressure. I'm no engineer, but if you were to backfill with gravel on your side wouldn't that alleviate any pressure on a lower gravel board?
I think that a steel I/H section king post with thick planks retaining fence would be best. A modular solution would be a second choice (crib wall or architectural stone)
I'm hoping the ex knob neighbour, who was lazy, just put the corrugated iron up against an existing wall then backfilled to his new wall to make the raised bed, so theres a retaining wall there already.
That part of the original fence is from when the house was built in the 80's. Well made as we've only just had to replace the side fences...
As such, there must have been something there before the raised bed was built in the neighbours house, especially as the original fence posts concrete is shallow on our side, not deep to the level of the garden behind.
I won't know until they dig down/dig out that side.
Otherwise, it'll probably be prudent to put this on the back burner for next year, let the neighbour get that raised bed out and sort out any retaining wall, then sort out the trees and fence.
That part of the original fence is from when the house was built in the 80's. Well made as we've only just had to replace the side fences...
As such, there must have been something there before the raised bed was built in the neighbours house, especially as the original fence posts concrete is shallow on our side, not deep to the level of the garden behind.
I won't know until they dig down/dig out that side.
Otherwise, it'll probably be prudent to put this on the back burner for next year, let the neighbour get that raised bed out and sort out any retaining wall, then sort out the trees and fence.
If it was me, I would pull those conifers out, rotavate the soil, and replace them with a line of something like Portuguese Laurel along the full 15m of fence. I would be buying root-ball trees of a decent hight, such as 120-130cm.
It would hide the fence, provide excellent dense screening, be reasonably attractive and green to look at, and if you keep it boxed up with a once per year trim, it wouldn't end up 8ft thick like the conifers. It could be kept at 2ft wide, and pretty much as tall or short as you want.
Then you can simply ignore the fence behind it, and forget about the retaining wall issues.
I would take a hedge over a fence any day. No painting, more attractive, and won't blow down every time it gets a bit windy.
It would hide the fence, provide excellent dense screening, be reasonably attractive and green to look at, and if you keep it boxed up with a once per year trim, it wouldn't end up 8ft thick like the conifers. It could be kept at 2ft wide, and pretty much as tall or short as you want.
Then you can simply ignore the fence behind it, and forget about the retaining wall issues.
I would take a hedge over a fence any day. No painting, more attractive, and won't blow down every time it gets a bit windy.
I want the fence as a demarcation.
Next door didn't have that, just the conifers and the previous knob neighbour hired a massive crew who dug out the neighbours conifers, stole 2 foot of their land, and put up a new fence. When we went to complain with our neighbour he said take me to court, you haven't the money for a boundary dispute.
They waited until we all went to work and had it all done before we came home.
So new fence, conifers down, maybe something nice planted instead.
However we've the higher garden. There's nothing in the deeds about boundarys, so do I have any responsibility for a retaining wall.
I'm now thinking there isn't one. Am I better to let the neighbour dig out her raised bed first and sort all that out, because it would then be her making changes, then do the trees and fence?
Next door didn't have that, just the conifers and the previous knob neighbour hired a massive crew who dug out the neighbours conifers, stole 2 foot of their land, and put up a new fence. When we went to complain with our neighbour he said take me to court, you haven't the money for a boundary dispute.
They waited until we all went to work and had it all done before we came home.
So new fence, conifers down, maybe something nice planted instead.
However we've the higher garden. There's nothing in the deeds about boundarys, so do I have any responsibility for a retaining wall.
I'm now thinking there isn't one. Am I better to let the neighbour dig out her raised bed first and sort all that out, because it would then be her making changes, then do the trees and fence?
Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 3rd September 11:47
It's a 600mm high wall so let's not get too carried away. I'd say let her dig it out first and if it collapses and takes a few trees with it sobeit. However, I think that you need to be ready with an immediate solution on the basis that there is no retaining wall and one needs to be built. There are a great many options and I think that you need to have your preferred option agreed with her beforehand to avoid a potential significant delay on site.
TA14 said:
Inbox said:
I think being clear on which side of the fence is the natural land level and who should provide support to whom is important as it has a bearing on who is responsible for the retaining wall.
Although it might be mid-height.So returning to this
It turns out the actual height change between gardens is approx 1 foot but the raised bed is 2 foot high,so it's been made one foot above my garden level, held back by corrugated iron thats rotted away.
This is the other garden behind mine. Neighbour will be removing her retaining wall and the soil back to the fence line.
It looks like the right option is to put in metal H posts as suggested above, as long as possible, composite gravel boards dropped in to above the level, then fence on top of the gravel boards. But no rot at the bottom in future...
This is using Durapost stuff, post every 2.4m, and the posts are much smaller than wooden ones...
Seems around the same price or slightly cheaper than we were getting quoted for wooden fencing and sleepers.
It turns out the actual height change between gardens is approx 1 foot but the raised bed is 2 foot high,so it's been made one foot above my garden level, held back by corrugated iron thats rotted away.
This is the other garden behind mine. Neighbour will be removing her retaining wall and the soil back to the fence line.
It looks like the right option is to put in metal H posts as suggested above, as long as possible, composite gravel boards dropped in to above the level, then fence on top of the gravel boards. But no rot at the bottom in future...
This is using Durapost stuff, post every 2.4m, and the posts are much smaller than wooden ones...
Seems around the same price or slightly cheaper than we were getting quoted for wooden fencing and sleepers.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff