How many traffic cases are 'winnable'?
How many traffic cases are 'winnable'?
Author
Discussion

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

4,914 posts

203 months

Wednesday 27th August
quotequote all
If money is no object and someone has no common sense or sense of cost/benefit, what proportion of traffic cases are winnable by some arcane process and does this change by offence?

I ask cause Nick Freeman always seems to be winning cases that seem slam dunk, but maybe this is just misleading reporting and he settles 95% of them?

It seems like drink driving especially has a lot of procedural requirements that are not always followed.

lancslad58

1,493 posts

25 months

Wednesday 27th August
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Money no object, do a Ronnie Biggs

stemll

4,794 posts

217 months

Wednesday 27th August
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Why? What have you done? biggrin

Somewhatfoolish

Original Poster:

4,914 posts

203 months

Wednesday 27th August
quotequote all
stemll said:
Why? What have you done? biggrin
Nuffing, I'm just interested. It's hard for me to reconcile Mr Freeman's reported successes with general experience so I'm wondering if this is just extremely misleading reporting or if it's more like almost no one bothering to do things properly at the "sausage factory" end of justice system so the sufficiently determined can get away with things. The latter appears to be the case with parking tickets so either seem plausible.

lancslad58

1,493 posts

25 months

Wednesday 27th August
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Just tell them that you're somewhat foolish and you don't understand the laws of the land. I'm sure they will not take long to believe you.

MustangGT

13,492 posts

297 months

Wednesday 27th August
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Every case is unique, therefore there cannot be a hard and fast rule on how to beat the charge.

ScoobyChris

2,107 posts

219 months

Wednesday 27th August
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Not sure about "winning" but a lot of the time I imagine they can get you a much more favourable outcome than if you were not represented.

Chris

spikeyhead

19,070 posts

214 months

Thursday 28th August
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Has it occurred to the OP that Freeman only takes cases that he knows he can win, therefore winning a high percentage of them?

dontlookdown

2,236 posts

110 months

Thursday 28th August
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I think that the profiles of 'super lawyers' like Freeman are a kind of confirmation bias, in that

a) they generally choose cases that experience tells them they will likely be able to win

b) they (and their clients) make a hoo ha about victory, while quietly brushing defeat under the carpet.

So not a good proxy in this case.

Edited by dontlookdown on Thursday 28th August 08:22

Terminator X

18,259 posts

221 months

Thursday 28th August
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£100 fine and 3 points or whatever Vs £1000's spent with a lawyer. I'd guess 99.99% of people just take the fine.

TX.

XCP

17,494 posts

245 months

Thursday 28th August
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All of them.

It purely depends on which side you are on.

irc

9,018 posts

153 months

Thursday 28th August
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Even Freeman will tell his clients to plead guilty in some cases. The ones that make the headlines are where thry are borderline and he fights and wins and makes headlines.

As said above, if a few thousand quid means less than 3pts people will go for it. Most people accept thay were caught and take the pts.

He doesn't win all the cases he contests.

"Chris Tarrant has been given six points on his licence and fined £525 after he was caught speeding twice within 21 minutes on the same stretch of road."

https://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/faqs/clutching-stra...

conanius

898 posts

215 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
Somewhatfoolish said:
If money is no object and someone has no common sense or sense of cost/benefit, what proportion of traffic cases are winnable by some arcane process and does this change by offence?

I ask cause Nick Freeman always seems to be winning cases that seem slam dunk, but maybe this is just misleading reporting and he settles 95% of them?

It seems like drink driving especially has a lot of procedural requirements that are not always followed.
Quite some time ago I was charged (With another PHer) for motor racing on the public highway, MS50. I sought out Nick Freeman and asked for advice. He said we'd been too honest and said too much at the scene and it was a waste of time. I think his 'game' is 'say nothing and then I can bend as needed'.

I spoke to a friend who was a magistrate, and his view was it was worth me getting representation as he felt we'd been charged with the wrong offence.

We got representation - motorlawyers.co.uk and went for Barrister representation. When at the initial hearing the CPS whipped out the tape from my friends in car video (which, after being taken at the scene hadn't been shared with our side) they got a recess so we could watch the video. Quite heartening hsi first words stated were 'wow, you were telling the truth, this is exactly how you explained it and the police really did embellish as you said they did'.

There was an adjournment, and then it came back to the magistrates court, CPS refused a pre hearing plea offer down to Careless... and on the day we were found not guilty.

In the end I think our costs were about £2k, which considering the implications if we'd been found guilty, was priceless.

simonas2702

200 posts

84 months

Tuesday 9th September
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Freeman certainly doesn't win them all but I suspect as others have said he only takes those on he thinks are worth it financially or with publicity.

I also think with the likes of Freeman and other motoring only specialists they have such a poor reputation amongst the courts and with normal defence solicitors that it may taint the magistrates or judges view to you as the defendant.

I've been co-accused on a job with Freeman for a lad I dealt with in the police station. I kept one and he went to Freemans who sent a letter for the first appearance totally forgetting an important part of the court process .It very poor. The lad asked to come back after spending about £9k , obviously he was told to bugger off

Peterpetrole

1,033 posts

14 months

Tuesday 9th September
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Definitely a fair proportion but the system is against you

anyoldcardave

996 posts

84 months

Tuesday 9th September
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It all depends on the circumstances and your will to not admit to something you feel is wrong.

Both times I have fought speeding tickets I have won in court without representation.

Once on a road I drive every day on which the signs before the average speed area are a trap, you pass national speed limit signs as you approach the area, and the 50 mph signs are actually behind the face of the cameras, argued the signage is not legal and won.

The other, I admitted being in the 7 seater with 6 others on my birthday, but was very drunk and could not remember who was driving and no one would admit to it, sent the form requesting name of driver back with a covering letter saying just that, TWICE.

In court the magistrate asked the CPS if I had replied in the required time, asked to see the replies, and instantly dismissed the case.