Business saving account
Business saving account
Author
Discussion

M22s

Original Poster:

576 posts

166 months

Monday 25th August
quotequote all
So I am still very green to running my own business so hopefully someone will have some experience of this.,,.

Business savings accounts are significantly higher interest rates compared to cash ISA’s, so can I loan the business money and throw it into a business savings account and pay it back (to myself-repay the loan) when I want, leaving the interest in the business, to take advantage of the higher interest rates?

I understand there’s is risk if there was issues with the business, but is there any reason I can’t do it or need to think about?

bearman68

4,881 posts

149 months

Monday 25th August
quotequote all
Very interested in a response to this, as I have a similar 'nice' problem.

Virgin money seem to be offering 3.55%
Allica are offering 4.08%
Tide are offering 4%, but tide need online connection to a small number of banking apps, and mine wasn't one of them, so I couldn't use it.

AndyAudi

3,534 posts

239 months

Monday 25th August
quotequote all
Presumably getting the interest income to yourself for spending would incurs some taxation if it was earned in your company?

ISA tax free, if. It exhausted ISA allowance I’d stick it there, you can get best part of 4% tax free.

Interestingly my bank offers ISA at 3.85% & business 95day notice at 3.25, (not a limited co, but I had swithered doing it the other way in the past !!). But decided for a couple of hundred £ it wasn’t worth the hassle


HoHoHo

15,332 posts

267 months

Monday 25th August
quotequote all
Have you looked at Flagstone or similar?

I have a business account with an average interest rate of 3.66% and a personal account with an average rate of 4.06%.- both with quite a lot deposited however spread so I’m covered by FSCS

MY deposits are also instant access for various reasons and having a quick look on the portal longer deposit terms will get you a 4.25% rate currently.

I would suggest if you deposit money via the company you may well end up paying CT on any interest but I can’t confirm for sure.

Al Gorithum

4,668 posts

225 months

Tuesday 26th August
quotequote all
I have Alica, Flagstone and Tide. Currently Alica is best at 4.08% (with boosts).

AB

18,613 posts

212 months

Tuesday 26th August
quotequote all
You'll pay CT on the interest earned if I'm not mistaken.

I do the opposite, pile company money in to my own savings account and them pay back the outstanding Director's Loan.

MaxFromage

2,433 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th August
quotequote all
Comparing business vs isa rates, I don't see much difference. Factoring in taxation, you will be losing out.

Silverage

2,268 posts

147 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
AB said:
You'll pay CT on the interest earned if I'm not mistaken.

I do the opposite, pile company money in to my own savings account and them pay back the outstanding Director's Loan.
Do you pay the company some interest on the director's loan when you pay it back?

OllyAitch

59 posts

178 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
Directors and owners often do this through what’s called a director’s loan account (if you’re a limited company). It’s perfectly legal to put money in and take it out later, provided it’s recorded properly in the books

MaxFromage

2,433 posts

148 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
Silverage said:
Do you pay the company some interest on the director's loan when you pay it back?
You should, or include it as a benefit in kind.

I don't know the posters circumstances, but it isn't really possible to do this (for most people) for more than one year due to the rules below:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/company-t...

MustangGT

13,452 posts

297 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
MaxFromage said:
Silverage said:
Do you pay the company some interest on the director's loan when you pay it back?
You should, or include it as a benefit in kind.

I don't know the posters circumstances, but it isn't really possible to do this (for most people) for more than one year due to the rules below:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/company-t...
I'm reading this as the other way round. I think the OP wants to loan money to the company to take advantage of the higher interest rates available to the business.

MaxFromage

2,433 posts

148 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
I'm reading this as the other way round. I think the OP wants to loan money to the company to take advantage of the higher interest rates available to the business.
OllyAitch was referencing AB, who is borrowing money from the company.

AB

18,613 posts

212 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
MaxFromage said:
Silverage said:
Do you pay the company some interest on the director's loan when you pay it back?
You should, or include it as a benefit in kind.

I don't know the posters circumstances, but it isn't really possible to do this (for most people) for more than one year due to the rules below:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/company-t...
It’s OK to have an outstanding loan account then pay it back.

Maybe BIK should be a thing but it’s never been questioned and accountants have never mentioned ‘bed and breakfasting’ on this.

trickywoo

13,163 posts

247 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
AB said:
You'll pay CT on the interest earned if I'm not mistaken.
That’s right a minimum of 19%.

I suppose you could engineer pension contributions and general income / expense balance to result in 0 profit so any interest wouldn’t result in a taxable profit.

I like to save a quid but even for me it seems like quite a lot of effort.

MaxFromage

2,433 posts

148 months

Thursday 28th August
quotequote all
AB said:
It’s OK to have an outstanding loan account then pay it back.

Maybe BIK should be a thing but it’s never been questioned and accountants have never mentioned ‘bed and breakfasting’ on this.
It is ok to have one and pay it back as a one-off. But if it's recurring you'll more than likely be caught by the rules I noted. And you most definitely should be paying interest if the loan is over £5K. Remember you're the one liable if HMRC come knocking. Which does happen in these circumstances.

WinkleHoff

787 posts

252 months

Saturday 30th August
quotequote all
I use Insignis, which is a pretty good platform cash around. I'm getting.around 4.1%. Yes it's subject to CT, but it's handy extra cash in the business and the interest compounds. It's not.to be sniffed at.

Also you can set up company SIPP. You can also.draw.out additional funds and put that in to VCTs etc with tax relief.

Hope this helps.


M22s

Original Poster:

576 posts

166 months

Tuesday 2nd September
quotequote all
Thanks to everyone who shared there thoughts, pros and cons. I’m not sure I have quite enough tip the effort vs reward scale yet.

I am also quickly learning that those who brag about claiming big amounts on this and that likely either rolling the dice on not being caught or a telling fibs.

Chipper

1,538 posts

234 months

Tuesday 2nd September
quotequote all
Reading through this, I’m surprised no one mentions the corporate investment route. I haven’t actually done it yet, but I’m in the process of setting up a corporate account (AJ Bell type thing) so I can move reserves into a sterling money market fund. They’re paying around 5% at the moment, with daily access, and it’s basically what councils and larger corporates do with their cash.

From what I can see, it’s the same tax treatment as interest in a business account, but without the faff of chasing half a percent here or there across different banks. I suppose it’s not on most people’s radar because small businesses rarely have that much cash sitting around, but once you do, the difference starts to add up.

Just seems odd it never gets talked about, when it looks like the default option for institutions managing liquidity.

Griffith4ever

5,761 posts

52 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
AB said:
You'll pay CT on the interest earned if I'm not mistaken.

I do the opposite, pile company money in to my own savings account and them pay back the outstanding Director's Loan.
I put mine in personal savings accounts, but not as a directors loan, its in "held in trust" or some such wording - I'm the only Director and shareholder so it's fine (if that matters?). This way I don't have to repay it 9 months after year end (or pay a shocking 33.5% tax if I don't! - the rules for a "Directors loan").

The money is effectively still in the company, just managed by me, and I'm "trusted" to hold the money.

My accontant checks the interest and I pay CT on that.


Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 3rd September 07:58

Chipper

1,538 posts

234 months

Thursday
quotequote all
Griffith4ever said:
AB said:
You'll pay CT on the interest earned if I'm not mistaken.

I do the opposite, pile company money in to my own savings account and them pay back the outstanding Director's Loan.
I put mine in personal savings accounts, but not as a directors loan, its in "held in trust" or some such wording - I'm the only Director and shareholder so it's fine (if that matters?). This way I don't have to repay it 9 months after year end (or pay a shocking 33.5% tax if I don't! - the rules for a "Directors loan").

The money is effectively still in the company, just managed by me, and I'm "trusted" to hold the money.

My accontant checks the interest and I pay CT on that.


Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 3rd September 07:58
I’d be careful with that approach. HMRC won’t care what you call it (“held in trust” etc) if company money ends up in an account in your personal name then, in their eyes, you’ve taken it out of the company.Thats either a director’s loan (with the 9-month repayment rule and the s455 hit if not cleared) or income. Just labelling it differently doesn’t change the legal position.

The other issue is risk. If that cash is sat in your personal account, it’s exposed. If you got divorced, went bankrupt, or worse, those funds could be treated as yours personally rather than the company’s. That’s why it’s so important to keep the separation clear.

Paying CT on the interest doesn’t “fix” it either because HMRC would still argue the principal sum is a director’s loan. In reality the only safe way is to keep company money in an account in the company’s name whether that’s a standard business savings account, or a corporate investment/money market fund.Then there’s no ambiguity: the company earns the interest, pays CT, and the money stays ring-fenced.

Looks like an easy workaround, but it’s a big compliance risk if you ever get scrutinised.