D4 / L322 (3.6 / 4.4) - running them...
Discussion
Ever keen to get back into the LR fold I had been thinking about a D3 for a long time, although mainly what I read now is that they are probably too old to find a non rusting example and they can be a little underpowered?
This brings me to thinking about a D4 or an L322, I've searched for comparisons on the issues of these cars, the D4 crank issue, the 3.6V8 manifold / turbo issue but I don't read too much about the 4.4TDV8 engine being a concern?
I appreciate that any car of this age has the ability to throw a big bill, would I be right in thinking that a D3 is likely to be the cheapest to run and the D4 / both TDV8 variants of the L322 are really on par cost wise or is there anything I've missed?
This brings me to thinking about a D4 or an L322, I've searched for comparisons on the issues of these cars, the D4 crank issue, the 3.6V8 manifold / turbo issue but I don't read too much about the 4.4TDV8 engine being a concern?
I appreciate that any car of this age has the ability to throw a big bill, would I be right in thinking that a D3 is likely to be the cheapest to run and the D4 / both TDV8 variants of the L322 are really on par cost wise or is there anything I've missed?
mark seeker said:
Ever keen to get back into the LR fold I had been thinking about a D3 for a long time, although mainly what I read now is that they are probably too old to find a non rusting example and they can be a little underpowered?
This brings me to thinking about a D4 or an L322, I've searched for comparisons on the issues of these cars, the D4 crank issue, the 3.6V8 manifold / turbo issue but I don't read too much about the 4.4TDV8 engine being a concern?
I appreciate that any car of this age has the ability to throw a big bill, would I be right in thinking that a D3 is likely to be the cheapest to run and the D4 / both TDV8 variants of the L322 are really on par cost wise or is there anything I've missed?
Rusting is more of a concern with the L322 vs the D3 and D4. The arches and lower sills rot from the inside out due to the insulation used and poor drainage. This brings me to thinking about a D4 or an L322, I've searched for comparisons on the issues of these cars, the D4 crank issue, the 3.6V8 manifold / turbo issue but I don't read too much about the 4.4TDV8 engine being a concern?
I appreciate that any car of this age has the ability to throw a big bill, would I be right in thinking that a D3 is likely to be the cheapest to run and the D4 / both TDV8 variants of the L322 are really on par cost wise or is there anything I've missed?
The 4.4 is not without its issues. EGR coolers, oil coolers seals and the Turbos can fail, but the turbo failure is no where near as common as the 3.6TDV8. However if the Turbos go on the 4.4, its a massive job and an engine out. Basically, you'll be writing off the car. Also, you are focusing on the engine when they are old cars with loads of stuff to go wrong (Suspension, sensors, leaks and general electrical issues)
If it were my money, I'd get a late 3.6TDV8 L322 and my money us on these slightly creeping up in value over the next few years, especially Clarkons/Queen colour cars. Saying that, there are some chancers out there trying to sell for hugely inflated prices just because they are green over tan.
The 3.6TDV8 is vastly superior engine to the 3.0/2.7 V6 found in the D3/D4. I consider the D3/2.7 to be underpowered for the size of car. You can get anther 30bhp out of them with a remap and yes, I owned an early 2.7 for three years. The pick up is really poor too. EGR blank makes it better but its still pretty sluggish. The 2.7 D3s can also have gearbox issues and glow pugs and quite frankly you can sink thousands into sorting that and i don't think its worth it anymore. I've also had an early 3.6TDV8 L322 and now own a 2011 5.0SC. Funnily enough I rate the 3.6TDV8 over the 5.0SC.
However, finding a good D3 is quite hard now and there is so much to go wrong on those. 2012 onwards D4s are the sweet spot and I can see these rising value too. People are hanging onto them purely because the D5 wasn't quite the successor that Land Rover buyers wanted.
I'll tell you what tell all prospective LR owners:
Budget £1kpa in maintenance and five times that in the bank should something serious go wrong. If you can't live with that, then buy something else. I've owned four and some have been better than others. The fact that you are already using the term 'cheap to run' tells me LRs are not for you as they just aren't cheap to run at all.
Edited by bakerstreet on Friday 22 August 10:36
Edited by bakerstreet on Friday 22 August 15:12
You haven’t stated a budget which is your biggest factor.
L322s are nice but rust is definitely going to kill loads of them as by the time the back arches are showing outer rust.
It’s taken hold of the inners and rear sills etc.
I’ve been in 3, 2 had the 3.6 and had turbo issues so didn’t drive properly.
The 4.4 I didn’t drive but it was clearly a much nicer car and had been looked after far, far better.
D3/4s are more practical. Larger interior and proper 7 seater with a more useable feel to them.
I loved my 2004 registered D3 hse. It was a brilliant car that did everything I needed.
Not the cheapest car to keep but it was a good car and I miss it dearly.
I now have a 2016 D4 landmark, that I get back on Wednesday with a brand new crate engine and rebuilt turbos as it suffered the 3.0 crankshaft failure.
There is a market for companies to get facelift euro6 spec D4s and rebuild the engines etc to sell on as the demand exists for arguably the best car Landrover made.
L322s are nice but rust is definitely going to kill loads of them as by the time the back arches are showing outer rust.
It’s taken hold of the inners and rear sills etc.
I’ve been in 3, 2 had the 3.6 and had turbo issues so didn’t drive properly.
The 4.4 I didn’t drive but it was clearly a much nicer car and had been looked after far, far better.
D3/4s are more practical. Larger interior and proper 7 seater with a more useable feel to them.
I loved my 2004 registered D3 hse. It was a brilliant car that did everything I needed.
Not the cheapest car to keep but it was a good car and I miss it dearly.
I now have a 2016 D4 landmark, that I get back on Wednesday with a brand new crate engine and rebuilt turbos as it suffered the 3.0 crankshaft failure.
There is a market for companies to get facelift euro6 spec D4s and rebuild the engines etc to sell on as the demand exists for arguably the best car Landrover made.
A.J.M said:
Yt I get back on Wednesday with a brand new crate engine and rebuilt turbos as it suffered the 3.0 crankshaft failure.
There is a market for companies to get facelift euro6 spec D4s and rebuild the engines etc to sell on as the demand exists for arguably the best car Landrover made.
Thanks to you, I am now following ILS who sell the D4s with the engine and undersealing treatment There is a market for companies to get facelift euro6 spec D4s and rebuild the engines etc to sell on as the demand exists for arguably the best car Landrover made.
Sadly, a diesel just doesn't suit my use case, as otherwise I'd be really tenpted, especially if they can remove all the emissions guff (DPF/EGR ect)
I've driven the 4.4 and they really are quite nice. So much more refined than the 3.6 and some extra grunt too. The L322 really is an amazing car. So comfortable and a massive boot but as we have both said on many occasions, they just aren't as practical as the D4/3/5. The flat folding seats in the original D3 really were a master stroke of design and you could argue that the D5 was a step back in that area.
Appreciate everyone's views on this, I have been reading the 'wallet draining D4' thread and I think a new engine would probably be something I would baulk at, although I do understand why people are replacing the engines (as someone above says, the D5 isn't seen as better than a D4 so why not carry on).
bakerstreet said:
Rusting is more of a concern with the L322 vs the D3 and D4. The arches and lower sills rot from the inside out due to the insulation used and poor drainage.
The 4.4 is not without its issues. EGR coolers, oil coolers seals and the Turbos can fail, but the turbo failure is no where near as common as the 3.6TDV8. However if the Turbos go on the 4.4, its a massive job and an engine out. Basically, you'll be writing off the car. Also, you are focusing on the engine when they are old cars with loads of stuff to go wrong (Suspension, sensors, leaks and general electrical issues)
If it were my money, I'd get a late 3.6TDV8 L322 and my money us on these slightly creeping up in value over the next few years, especially Clarkons/Queen colour cars. Saying that, there are some chancers out there trying to sell for hugely inflated prices just because they are green over tan.
The 3.6TDV8 is vastly superior engine to the 3.0/2.7 V6 found in the D3/D4. I consider the D3/2.7 to be underpowered for the size of car. You can get anther 30bhp out of them with a remap and yes, I owned an early 2.7 for three years. The pick up is really poor too. EGR blank makes it better but its still pretty sluggish. The 2.7 D3s can also have gearbox issues and glow pugs and quite frankly you can sink thousands into sorting that and i don't think its worth it anymore. I've also had an early 3.6TDV8 L322 and now own a 2011 5.0SC. Funnily enough I rate the 3.6TDV8 over the 5.0SC.
However, finding a good D3 is quite hard now and there is so much to go wrong on those. 2012 onwards D4s are the sweet spot and I can see these rising value too. People are hanging onto them purely because the D5 wasn't quite the successor that Land Rover buyers wanted.
I'll tell you what tell all prospective LR owners:
Budget £1kpa in maintenance and five times that in the bank should something serious go wrong. If you can't live with that, then buy something else. I've owned four and some have been better than others. The fact that you are already using the term 'cheap to run' tells me LRs are not for you as they just aren't cheap to run at all.
Brilliant detailed reply, many thanks - £1kPA and £5k if things go sour is fine, its more the £12k when things goes sour on an £8k car I'd probably struggle with. I have noticed some silly priced Queens/Clarkson spec colours, not sure if anyone is really paying those sticker prices.The 4.4 is not without its issues. EGR coolers, oil coolers seals and the Turbos can fail, but the turbo failure is no where near as common as the 3.6TDV8. However if the Turbos go on the 4.4, its a massive job and an engine out. Basically, you'll be writing off the car. Also, you are focusing on the engine when they are old cars with loads of stuff to go wrong (Suspension, sensors, leaks and general electrical issues)
If it were my money, I'd get a late 3.6TDV8 L322 and my money us on these slightly creeping up in value over the next few years, especially Clarkons/Queen colour cars. Saying that, there are some chancers out there trying to sell for hugely inflated prices just because they are green over tan.
The 3.6TDV8 is vastly superior engine to the 3.0/2.7 V6 found in the D3/D4. I consider the D3/2.7 to be underpowered for the size of car. You can get anther 30bhp out of them with a remap and yes, I owned an early 2.7 for three years. The pick up is really poor too. EGR blank makes it better but its still pretty sluggish. The 2.7 D3s can also have gearbox issues and glow pugs and quite frankly you can sink thousands into sorting that and i don't think its worth it anymore. I've also had an early 3.6TDV8 L322 and now own a 2011 5.0SC. Funnily enough I rate the 3.6TDV8 over the 5.0SC.
However, finding a good D3 is quite hard now and there is so much to go wrong on those. 2012 onwards D4s are the sweet spot and I can see these rising value too. People are hanging onto them purely because the D5 wasn't quite the successor that Land Rover buyers wanted.
I'll tell you what tell all prospective LR owners:
Budget £1kpa in maintenance and five times that in the bank should something serious go wrong. If you can't live with that, then buy something else. I've owned four and some have been better than others. The fact that you are already using the term 'cheap to run' tells me LRs are not for you as they just aren't cheap to run at all.
Edited by bakerstreet on Friday 22 August 10:36
Edited by bakerstreet on Friday 22 August 15:12
Note sure if this link works, but something like this (on paper) looks ok?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202506304...
mark seeker said:
Appreciate everyone's views on this, I have been reading the 'wallet draining D4' thread and I think a new engine would probably be something I would baulk at, although I do understand why people are replacing the engines (as someone above says, the D5 isn't seen as better than a D4 so why not carry on).
The D5 was a step forward in pretty much every area. However, they are not the glass house design of the D4 and L322s. For a start, when you press the brake pedal on the d5, they is no big body dive which is what you get on the L322 and the D3/4.
There is more rear leg room in the D5 too. Despite what people think the D3/4 aren't that roomy when it comes to second row. A Skoda Superb and and E class are leagues ahead.
bakerstreet said:
The D5 was a step forward in pretty much every area. However, they are not the glass house design of the D4 and L322s.
For a start, when you press the brake pedal on the d5, they is no big body dive which is what you get on the L322 and the D3/4.
There is more rear leg room in the D5 too. Despite what people think the D3/4 aren't that roomy when it comes to second row. A Skoda Superb and and E class are leagues ahead.
As a D4 owner for over a decade, I’d have loved to get into a D5, but to me they just look wrong to me. The rear 3 quarter makes the back wheel look smaller than the front and the offset number plate too. What were they thinking? For a start, when you press the brake pedal on the d5, they is no big body dive which is what you get on the L322 and the D3/4.
There is more rear leg room in the D5 too. Despite what people think the D3/4 aren't that roomy when it comes to second row. A Skoda Superb and and E class are leagues ahead.
I think that offset plate design has actually aged quite well and cars with the central plate conversion takes ages to sell and usually a lower o ice compared to one that is stock.
For Land Rover that side on plate was pretty radical for modern car design.
I actually collect my D5 in an hours time, so will be posting in readers cars later on today with all the details 🙂
For Land Rover that side on plate was pretty radical for modern car design.
I actually collect my D5 in an hours time, so will be posting in readers cars later on today with all the details 🙂
bakerstreet said:
I think that offset plate design has actually aged quite well and cars with the central plate conversion takes ages to sell and usually a lower o ice compared to one that is stock.
For Land Rover that side on plate was pretty radical for modern car design.
I actually collect my D5 in an hours time, so will be posting in readers cars later on today with all the details ?
Still waiting for the thread of your D5. For Land Rover that side on plate was pretty radical for modern car design.
I actually collect my D5 in an hours time, so will be posting in readers cars later on today with all the details ?
InfamousK said:
Still waiting for the thread of your D5.
Just posted it in Readers Rides. Feel free to have a browse. Its a long post! https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I am a recent convert to a 4.4 TDV8 Vogue SE, and am loving it, but it hasn't yet spat a big bill my way.
It's refined, quiet, comfortable, beautiful leather, just a nice place to be. Mine is a 2011 example.
As to emssions stuff, every now and then a message comes on the dash that the DPF (or PDF as my wife calls it ) needs to be cleared.
So far it has done it about once a month.
I live close to the A1, so when I see that message I get the engine up to temperature first, join the A1 and set cruise control for 65.
7-8 miles later the yellow triangle light on the dash goes out, job jobbed.
It's refined, quiet, comfortable, beautiful leather, just a nice place to be. Mine is a 2011 example.
As to emssions stuff, every now and then a message comes on the dash that the DPF (or PDF as my wife calls it
) needs to be cleared.So far it has done it about once a month.
I live close to the A1, so when I see that message I get the engine up to temperature first, join the A1 and set cruise control for 65.
7-8 miles later the yellow triangle light on the dash goes out, job jobbed.
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