EV first proper experience - my thoughts
Discussion
Just got back from a marvellous couple of weeks in Lofoten, Norway. Absolutely stunning and you really have to go if you haven't been before, but I digress.
Norway, I think, has the highest uptake of EVs in the western world, with around 90% of new cars sold now being BEVs. This seemed like a good opportunity to try one out for a couple of weeks, with the expectation that the 'or similar' hire care lottery would probably throw one up anyway, whatever box I ticked. I booked a VW Id4 'or similar' from Avis and they provided a Toyota bZ4X SUV as a free upgrade. It soon became apparent that that a significant proportion of bZ4X production appears to have made its way onto various Norwegian hire fleets.
A bit of background. My daily is a 2015 Benz E350d estate, with my Sunday afternoon car being a 1927 Alvis 12/50. Herself drives a 2016 Mini Cooper Clubman, which gets the occasional Italian tune up from me. I have generally been drawn towards interesting ICE engines, with previous convictions including an earlier V6 diesel Benz, several V8 Rovers / Land Rovers, a 2.5 V6 Mitsubishi, a 4.0 V8 Jaguar and a 6,750 cc Royce Silver Shadow.
We all know that the whole EV question can rouse passion on both sides of the argument, but I was determined to approach this with an open mind. I have always favoured two very different types of engine; either effortless tourqey waftiness, or red line in every gear, 'drive it like you stole it' weekend fun. My current fleet provides all of that in abundance. The Benz will take the four of us, effortlessly, to southern France and make light work of the daily A to B stuff, while the Alvis is as raw as you can get, with a near racing spec 1920s engine and crash gearbox to help me to keep it real at weekends.
So, how did an EV fit in to my life? Unsurprisingly, for the job of moving two adults and two teenagers, plus too much luggage over long distances the actual business of driving was as smooth and effortless as a silk codpiece. RR Phantom levels of drivetrain silence. I used it in regen mode most of the time and quickly got used to one pedal driving. Of course, it had all the latest driving interference 'aids' but these are not just exclusive to BEVs now. My Benz has most of these and in that they always remain below the surface unless really needed. In the Toyota, while not as apparently bad as some I have read about, they did occasionally intervene with randomly unnecessary steering movements.
Other than interference from gadgets, the whole driving experience was smooth, quiet and effortless. The 60 profile tyres added to the pillowy ride. As a driving machine it was utterly soulless, with the most artificial steering I have ever encountered in a car. It actually handled the bends rather well, but neither encourages or suits a B road blast. Of course, the point and squirt overtaking acceleration was excellent. I also gained some satisfaction from knowing that I wasn't significantly adding to the pollution of such a beautiful landscape as we silently drifted by.
Norway, unsurprisingly, is well set up for BEV charging with plenty of sites available. I only once found all chargers occupied, so drove less than 1KM to another charging site and plugged in there. They are generally located in supermarket car parks and filling stations, but also at other locations, such as camp sites and tourist destinations. None were vandalised and all were in working order. Sometimes the Toyota seemed to charge quickly and others it decided to take its time. No idea why. The range was OK ish, giving around 360 KMs at 80% charge, but more would always be better. Most of the time, just a 10-minute charge would set us up for a couple of days of local touring, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem.
My conclusion? / TL:DR As a comfortable, easy, stress-free means of family transport it worked very well. With access to a decent charging network I can see no reason why Mr or Mrs Average wouldn't welcome one as their daily. To provide a pleasant and practical alternative to an ICE car for long distance touring, reliable charging options other than loathsome motorway services would need to be available in abundance. I don't think we are there yet in the UK, but I expect it will come.
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
Norway, I think, has the highest uptake of EVs in the western world, with around 90% of new cars sold now being BEVs. This seemed like a good opportunity to try one out for a couple of weeks, with the expectation that the 'or similar' hire care lottery would probably throw one up anyway, whatever box I ticked. I booked a VW Id4 'or similar' from Avis and they provided a Toyota bZ4X SUV as a free upgrade. It soon became apparent that that a significant proportion of bZ4X production appears to have made its way onto various Norwegian hire fleets.
A bit of background. My daily is a 2015 Benz E350d estate, with my Sunday afternoon car being a 1927 Alvis 12/50. Herself drives a 2016 Mini Cooper Clubman, which gets the occasional Italian tune up from me. I have generally been drawn towards interesting ICE engines, with previous convictions including an earlier V6 diesel Benz, several V8 Rovers / Land Rovers, a 2.5 V6 Mitsubishi, a 4.0 V8 Jaguar and a 6,750 cc Royce Silver Shadow.
We all know that the whole EV question can rouse passion on both sides of the argument, but I was determined to approach this with an open mind. I have always favoured two very different types of engine; either effortless tourqey waftiness, or red line in every gear, 'drive it like you stole it' weekend fun. My current fleet provides all of that in abundance. The Benz will take the four of us, effortlessly, to southern France and make light work of the daily A to B stuff, while the Alvis is as raw as you can get, with a near racing spec 1920s engine and crash gearbox to help me to keep it real at weekends.
So, how did an EV fit in to my life? Unsurprisingly, for the job of moving two adults and two teenagers, plus too much luggage over long distances the actual business of driving was as smooth and effortless as a silk codpiece. RR Phantom levels of drivetrain silence. I used it in regen mode most of the time and quickly got used to one pedal driving. Of course, it had all the latest driving interference 'aids' but these are not just exclusive to BEVs now. My Benz has most of these and in that they always remain below the surface unless really needed. In the Toyota, while not as apparently bad as some I have read about, they did occasionally intervene with randomly unnecessary steering movements.
Other than interference from gadgets, the whole driving experience was smooth, quiet and effortless. The 60 profile tyres added to the pillowy ride. As a driving machine it was utterly soulless, with the most artificial steering I have ever encountered in a car. It actually handled the bends rather well, but neither encourages or suits a B road blast. Of course, the point and squirt overtaking acceleration was excellent. I also gained some satisfaction from knowing that I wasn't significantly adding to the pollution of such a beautiful landscape as we silently drifted by.
Norway, unsurprisingly, is well set up for BEV charging with plenty of sites available. I only once found all chargers occupied, so drove less than 1KM to another charging site and plugged in there. They are generally located in supermarket car parks and filling stations, but also at other locations, such as camp sites and tourist destinations. None were vandalised and all were in working order. Sometimes the Toyota seemed to charge quickly and others it decided to take its time. No idea why. The range was OK ish, giving around 360 KMs at 80% charge, but more would always be better. Most of the time, just a 10-minute charge would set us up for a couple of days of local touring, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem.
My conclusion? / TL:DR As a comfortable, easy, stress-free means of family transport it worked very well. With access to a decent charging network I can see no reason why Mr or Mrs Average wouldn't welcome one as their daily. To provide a pleasant and practical alternative to an ICE car for long distance touring, reliable charging options other than loathsome motorway services would need to be available in abundance. I don't think we are there yet in the UK, but I expect it will come.
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
Good, and frank review, but the elephant in the room is cost of charging. Public charging in the UK is scandalously expensive, still. Unless you can charge at home, or your employer / business is paying for it, it is no cheaper than running an ICE vehicle. More, if you include purchase prices, and if you use the motorway ones (80p per kWh and more). 
I did have to use Gloucester once for a little boost, and their 69p seems reasonable compared to others!
I pay 6.7p per kWh at night with EON, the cheapest public ones I've seen are at Lidl near me (25p), which is actually about the same as daytime charging at home, and 44p at Tesco Podpoint. Some Aldi (Knutsford for example), it is actually free for up to 2 hours, although not very fast.
But not anywhere near me.
I did have to use Gloucester once for a little boost, and their 69p seems reasonable compared to others!I pay 6.7p per kWh at night with EON, the cheapest public ones I've seen are at Lidl near me (25p), which is actually about the same as daytime charging at home, and 44p at Tesco Podpoint. Some Aldi (Knutsford for example), it is actually free for up to 2 hours, although not very fast.
But not anywhere near me.Regarding charging in Uk
A lot of Tesla ones are open to all, no membership required (if you can see it in the app, with no Tesla registered, it’s open to all)
A lot cheaper than the rest, also often at hotels etc just off of the Motorway.
Better coffee & loos!
Cheaper if you pay £9.99 a month membership.
Still at least 5x the charge at home price though..
If I were to leave home now to drive to John O’Groats
3 charging stops required, hopefully coincide with lunch or comfort breaks:-
A lot of Tesla ones are open to all, no membership required (if you can see it in the app, with no Tesla registered, it’s open to all)
A lot cheaper than the rest, also often at hotels etc just off of the Motorway.
Better coffee & loos!
Cheaper if you pay £9.99 a month membership.
Still at least 5x the charge at home price though..
If I were to leave home now to drive to John O’Groats
3 charging stops required, hopefully coincide with lunch or comfort breaks:-
Edited by RotorRambler on Friday 8th August 11:15
sixor8 said:
Good, and frank review, but the elephant in the room is cost of charging. Public charging in the UK is scandalously expensive, still. Unless you can charge at home, or your employer / business is paying for it, it is no cheaper than running an ICE vehicle. More, if you include purchase prices, and if you use the motorway ones (80p per kWh and more). I did have to use Gloucester once for a little boost, and their 69p seems reasonable compared to others!
I pay 6.7p per kWh at night with EON, the cheapest public ones I've seen are at Lidl near me (25p), which is actually about the same as daytime charging at home, and 44p at Tesco Podpoint. Some Aldi (Knutsford for example), it is actually free for up to 2 hours, although not very fast. But not anywhere near me.
Agreed. Public chargers were all around 44p per kWh in Norway, even on major routes. That is in a country which has a reputation for being expensive. I did have to use Gloucester once for a little boost, and their 69p seems reasonable compared to others!I pay 6.7p per kWh at night with EON, the cheapest public ones I've seen are at Lidl near me (25p), which is actually about the same as daytime charging at home, and 44p at Tesco Podpoint. Some Aldi (Knutsford for example), it is actually free for up to 2 hours, although not very fast.
But not anywhere near me.I have done some rough calculations. We covered 1,257 km, using just under £75 worth of sparks from public chargers. By my rough calculations, (happy to stand corrected) that works out at the equivalent of the cost of running an ICE car doing 65 mpg, at a £1.39 per litre pump price. Happy with that.
Commuters need to be in BEVs as soon as possible. From the many posts on here about the drudgery of day to day rush hour driving, it's clear that a BEV makes the most sense to undertake this soul destroying activity. But for those of us that don't do that and enjoy driving, there is little desire for a BEV. I do about 3k miles in both my ICE cars combined and I want those miles to be enjoyable - not effortless, not soulless, not even comfortable necessarily if it comes at the expense of driving experience.
FarmerJim said:
I have done some rough calculations. We covered 1,257 km, using just under £75 worth of sparks from public chargers. By my rough calculations, (happy to stand corrected) that works out at the equivalent of the cost of running an ICE car doing 65 mpg, at a £1.39 per litre pump price. Happy with that.
Thats probably acheivable in most modern diesels on a long run.FarmerJim said:
Just got back from a marvellous couple of weeks in Lofoten, Norway. Absolutely stunning and you really have to go if you haven't been before, but I digress.
Norway, I think, has the highest uptake of EVs in the western world, with around 90% of new cars sold now being BEVs. This seemed like a good opportunity to try one out for a couple of weeks, with the expectation that the 'or similar' hire care lottery would probably throw one up anyway, whatever box I ticked. I booked a VW Id4 'or similar' from Avis and they provided a Toyota bZ4X SUV as a free upgrade. It soon became apparent that that a significant proportion of bZ4X production appears to have made its way onto various Norwegian hire fleets.
A bit of background. My daily is a 2015 Benz E350d estate, with my Sunday afternoon car being a 1927 Alvis 12/50. Herself drives a 2016 Mini Cooper Clubman, which gets the occasional Italian tune up from me. I have generally been drawn towards interesting ICE engines, with previous convictions including an earlier V6 diesel Benz, several V8 Rovers / Land Rovers, a 2.5 V6 Mitsubishi, a 4.0 V8 Jaguar and a 6,750 cc Royce Silver Shadow.
We all know that the whole EV question can rouse passion on both sides of the argument, but I was determined to approach this with an open mind. I have always favoured two very different types of engine; either effortless tourqey waftiness, or red line in every gear, 'drive it like you stole it' weekend fun. My current fleet provides all of that in abundance. The Benz will take the four of us, effortlessly, to southern France and make light work of the daily A to B stuff, while the Alvis is as raw as you can get, with a near racing spec 1920s engine and crash gearbox to help me to keep it real at weekends.
So, how did an EV fit in to my life? Unsurprisingly, for the job of moving two adults and two teenagers, plus too much luggage over long distances the actual business of driving was as smooth and effortless as a silk codpiece. RR Phantom levels of drivetrain silence. I used it in regen mode most of the time and quickly got used to one pedal driving. Of course, it had all the latest driving interference 'aids' but these are not just exclusive to BEVs now. My Benz has most of these and in that they always remain below the surface unless really needed. In the Toyota, while not as apparently bad as some I have read about, they did occasionally intervene with randomly unnecessary steering movements.
Other than interference from gadgets, the whole driving experience was smooth, quiet and effortless. The 60 profile tyres added to the pillowy ride. As a driving machine it was utterly soulless, with the most artificial steering I have ever encountered in a car. It actually handled the bends rather well, but neither encourages or suits a B road blast. Of course, the point and squirt overtaking acceleration was excellent. I also gained some satisfaction from knowing that I wasn't significantly adding to the pollution of such a beautiful landscape as we silently drifted by.
Norway, unsurprisingly, is well set up for BEV charging with plenty of sites available. I only once found all chargers occupied, so drove less than 1KM to another charging site and plugged in there. They are generally located in supermarket car parks and filling stations, but also at other locations, such as camp sites and tourist destinations. None were vandalised and all were in working order. Sometimes the Toyota seemed to charge quickly and others it decided to take its time. No idea why. The range was OK ish, giving around 360 KMs at 80% charge, but more would always be better. Most of the time, just a 10-minute charge would set us up for a couple of days of local touring, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem.
My conclusion? / TL:DR As a comfortable, easy, stress-free means of family transport it worked very well. With access to a decent charging network I can see no reason why Mr or Mrs Average wouldn't welcome one as their daily. To provide a pleasant and practical alternative to an ICE car for long distance touring, reliable charging options other than loathsome motorway services would need to be available in abundance. I don't think we are there yet in the UK, but I expect it will come.
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
Off topic but how did you go about booking this? This is the sort of trip that keeps the missus happy and letting me drive her A35! So it is technically car related, from a certain point of view?Norway, I think, has the highest uptake of EVs in the western world, with around 90% of new cars sold now being BEVs. This seemed like a good opportunity to try one out for a couple of weeks, with the expectation that the 'or similar' hire care lottery would probably throw one up anyway, whatever box I ticked. I booked a VW Id4 'or similar' from Avis and they provided a Toyota bZ4X SUV as a free upgrade. It soon became apparent that that a significant proportion of bZ4X production appears to have made its way onto various Norwegian hire fleets.
A bit of background. My daily is a 2015 Benz E350d estate, with my Sunday afternoon car being a 1927 Alvis 12/50. Herself drives a 2016 Mini Cooper Clubman, which gets the occasional Italian tune up from me. I have generally been drawn towards interesting ICE engines, with previous convictions including an earlier V6 diesel Benz, several V8 Rovers / Land Rovers, a 2.5 V6 Mitsubishi, a 4.0 V8 Jaguar and a 6,750 cc Royce Silver Shadow.
We all know that the whole EV question can rouse passion on both sides of the argument, but I was determined to approach this with an open mind. I have always favoured two very different types of engine; either effortless tourqey waftiness, or red line in every gear, 'drive it like you stole it' weekend fun. My current fleet provides all of that in abundance. The Benz will take the four of us, effortlessly, to southern France and make light work of the daily A to B stuff, while the Alvis is as raw as you can get, with a near racing spec 1920s engine and crash gearbox to help me to keep it real at weekends.
So, how did an EV fit in to my life? Unsurprisingly, for the job of moving two adults and two teenagers, plus too much luggage over long distances the actual business of driving was as smooth and effortless as a silk codpiece. RR Phantom levels of drivetrain silence. I used it in regen mode most of the time and quickly got used to one pedal driving. Of course, it had all the latest driving interference 'aids' but these are not just exclusive to BEVs now. My Benz has most of these and in that they always remain below the surface unless really needed. In the Toyota, while not as apparently bad as some I have read about, they did occasionally intervene with randomly unnecessary steering movements.
Other than interference from gadgets, the whole driving experience was smooth, quiet and effortless. The 60 profile tyres added to the pillowy ride. As a driving machine it was utterly soulless, with the most artificial steering I have ever encountered in a car. It actually handled the bends rather well, but neither encourages or suits a B road blast. Of course, the point and squirt overtaking acceleration was excellent. I also gained some satisfaction from knowing that I wasn't significantly adding to the pollution of such a beautiful landscape as we silently drifted by.
Norway, unsurprisingly, is well set up for BEV charging with plenty of sites available. I only once found all chargers occupied, so drove less than 1KM to another charging site and plugged in there. They are generally located in supermarket car parks and filling stations, but also at other locations, such as camp sites and tourist destinations. None were vandalised and all were in working order. Sometimes the Toyota seemed to charge quickly and others it decided to take its time. No idea why. The range was OK ish, giving around 360 KMs at 80% charge, but more would always be better. Most of the time, just a 10-minute charge would set us up for a couple of days of local touring, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem.
My conclusion? / TL:DR As a comfortable, easy, stress-free means of family transport it worked very well. With access to a decent charging network I can see no reason why Mr or Mrs Average wouldn't welcome one as their daily. To provide a pleasant and practical alternative to an ICE car for long distance touring, reliable charging options other than loathsome motorway services would need to be available in abundance. I don't think we are there yet in the UK, but I expect it will come.
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
BlackTank said:
Commuters need to be in BEVs as soon as possible. From the many posts on here about the drudgery of day to day rush hour driving, it's clear that a BEV makes the most sense to undertake this soul destroying activity. But for those of us that don't do that and enjoy driving, there is little desire for a BEV. I do about 3k miles in both my ICE cars combined and I want those miles to be enjoyable - not effortless, not soulless, not even comfortable necessarily if it comes at the expense of driving experience.
Enjoyable is, naturally, a very personal thing. But I think an ICE GT or standard sports saloon car "feel" (at least from the noughties) are more similar to a warm EV than a modern "white goods" ICE. It might take a while to tune in, but learning to drive smoothly with the strongest regeneration levels takes some practice. Figuring out the weight transfer in the corners and how feeding in the power early influences the corner exits. Feeling and anticipating the slight "thump" and whine of the front motor joining in.
Being somewhat technically minded, I also find the mental challenge of range calculations/optimisation fun. This is probably helped by the fact that on mountain roads, an EV "economy" drive (300+ mile theoretical range) can include accelerations out of hairpins that IIRC emptied the tank of a classic Impreza Turbo in about 250 miles.
BlackTank said:
Commuters need to be in BEVs as soon as possible. From the many posts on here about the drudgery of day to day rush hour driving, it's clear that a BEV makes the most sense to undertake this soul destroying activity. But for those of us that don't do that and enjoy driving, there is little desire for a BEV. I do about 3k miles in both my ICE cars combined and I want those miles to be enjoyable - not effortless, not soulless, not even comfortable necessarily if it comes at the expense of driving experience.
BEVs are perfect to commuting. I ended up commuting 70 miles a day in the fiat 500 that we got for the kids to learn to drive. I picked up a salary sacrifice lease EV and commuting is now a lot nicer. I am still plodding up and down the same dual carriage ways but the car is quiet, decent radio the seats are comfy and i can have the car nice and warm when i set off early in the winter mornings plus i never have to go to the petrol station and can have a full “ tank” every morningFarmerJim said:
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
I suspect that's the approach of an awful lot of people on here. We have an MG4 for general family drudgery and an Elise for fun. Not that the MG can't be fun in its own way; it's over 200bhp, RWD and has a surprisingly good chassis for a 1600kg family car; but obviously it's never going to manage the involvement or responsiveness of a car which is less than half the weight and doesn't have power assisted anything. The only downside really is that having now experienced an EV on the other side of the garage, I begrudge having to take the Lotus to a petrol station every couple of weeks even more.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 9th August 09:36
My EV is a car on the Disability scheme.I was very apprehensive to change over at the age of 76.I have driven using Petrol Diesel and LPG.My first long trip was from Yorkshire to London.Two stops for fuel and a break.Iam getting used to it now and we have a home charger.In London I found a charger near my sons house a BP one outside the firestation.This year we are seeing family in Holland.My wife is disabled so a bit of planning taking the wheelchair or the E Scooter.On the Ferry we need the wheelchair and one of the crew members will help us.I believe the charging system in Holland is very good so we have to see.We be staying in Rotterdam the town I grew up in.
AdamC94 said:
FarmerJim said:
Just got back from a marvellous couple of weeks in Lofoten, Norway. Absolutely stunning and you really have to go if you haven't been before, but I digress.
Norway, I think, has the highest uptake of EVs in the western world, with around 90% of new cars sold now being BEVs. This seemed like a good opportunity to try one out for a couple of weeks, with the expectation that the 'or similar' hire care lottery would probably throw one up anyway, whatever box I ticked. I booked a VW Id4 'or similar' from Avis and they provided a Toyota bZ4X SUV as a free upgrade. It soon became apparent that that a significant proportion of bZ4X production appears to have made its way onto various Norwegian hire fleets.
A bit of background. My daily is a 2015 Benz E350d estate, with my Sunday afternoon car being a 1927 Alvis 12/50. Herself drives a 2016 Mini Cooper Clubman, which gets the occasional Italian tune up from me. I have generally been drawn towards interesting ICE engines, with previous convictions including an earlier V6 diesel Benz, several V8 Rovers / Land Rovers, a 2.5 V6 Mitsubishi, a 4.0 V8 Jaguar and a 6,750 cc Royce Silver Shadow.
We all know that the whole EV question can rouse passion on both sides of the argument, but I was determined to approach this with an open mind. I have always favoured two very different types of engine; either effortless tourqey waftiness, or red line in every gear, 'drive it like you stole it' weekend fun. My current fleet provides all of that in abundance. The Benz will take the four of us, effortlessly, to southern France and make light work of the daily A to B stuff, while the Alvis is as raw as you can get, with a near racing spec 1920s engine and crash gearbox to help me to keep it real at weekends.
So, how did an EV fit in to my life? Unsurprisingly, for the job of moving two adults and two teenagers, plus too much luggage over long distances the actual business of driving was as smooth and effortless as a silk codpiece. RR Phantom levels of drivetrain silence. I used it in regen mode most of the time and quickly got used to one pedal driving. Of course, it had all the latest driving interference 'aids' but these are not just exclusive to BEVs now. My Benz has most of these and in that they always remain below the surface unless really needed. In the Toyota, while not as apparently bad as some I have read about, they did occasionally intervene with randomly unnecessary steering movements.
Other than interference from gadgets, the whole driving experience was smooth, quiet and effortless. The 60 profile tyres added to the pillowy ride. As a driving machine it was utterly soulless, with the most artificial steering I have ever encountered in a car. It actually handled the bends rather well, but neither encourages or suits a B road blast. Of course, the point and squirt overtaking acceleration was excellent. I also gained some satisfaction from knowing that I wasn't significantly adding to the pollution of such a beautiful landscape as we silently drifted by.
Norway, unsurprisingly, is well set up for BEV charging with plenty of sites available. I only once found all chargers occupied, so drove less than 1KM to another charging site and plugged in there. They are generally located in supermarket car parks and filling stations, but also at other locations, such as camp sites and tourist destinations. None were vandalised and all were in working order. Sometimes the Toyota seemed to charge quickly and others it decided to take its time. No idea why. The range was OK ish, giving around 360 KMs at 80% charge, but more would always be better. Most of the time, just a 10-minute charge would set us up for a couple of days of local touring, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem.
My conclusion? / TL:DR As a comfortable, easy, stress-free means of family transport it worked very well. With access to a decent charging network I can see no reason why Mr or Mrs Average wouldn't welcome one as their daily. To provide a pleasant and practical alternative to an ICE car for long distance touring, reliable charging options other than loathsome motorway services would need to be available in abundance. I don't think we are there yet in the UK, but I expect it will come.
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
Off topic but how did you go about booking this? This is the sort of trip that keeps the missus happy and letting me drive her A35! So it is technically car related, from a certain point of view?Norway, I think, has the highest uptake of EVs in the western world, with around 90% of new cars sold now being BEVs. This seemed like a good opportunity to try one out for a couple of weeks, with the expectation that the 'or similar' hire care lottery would probably throw one up anyway, whatever box I ticked. I booked a VW Id4 'or similar' from Avis and they provided a Toyota bZ4X SUV as a free upgrade. It soon became apparent that that a significant proportion of bZ4X production appears to have made its way onto various Norwegian hire fleets.
A bit of background. My daily is a 2015 Benz E350d estate, with my Sunday afternoon car being a 1927 Alvis 12/50. Herself drives a 2016 Mini Cooper Clubman, which gets the occasional Italian tune up from me. I have generally been drawn towards interesting ICE engines, with previous convictions including an earlier V6 diesel Benz, several V8 Rovers / Land Rovers, a 2.5 V6 Mitsubishi, a 4.0 V8 Jaguar and a 6,750 cc Royce Silver Shadow.
We all know that the whole EV question can rouse passion on both sides of the argument, but I was determined to approach this with an open mind. I have always favoured two very different types of engine; either effortless tourqey waftiness, or red line in every gear, 'drive it like you stole it' weekend fun. My current fleet provides all of that in abundance. The Benz will take the four of us, effortlessly, to southern France and make light work of the daily A to B stuff, while the Alvis is as raw as you can get, with a near racing spec 1920s engine and crash gearbox to help me to keep it real at weekends.
So, how did an EV fit in to my life? Unsurprisingly, for the job of moving two adults and two teenagers, plus too much luggage over long distances the actual business of driving was as smooth and effortless as a silk codpiece. RR Phantom levels of drivetrain silence. I used it in regen mode most of the time and quickly got used to one pedal driving. Of course, it had all the latest driving interference 'aids' but these are not just exclusive to BEVs now. My Benz has most of these and in that they always remain below the surface unless really needed. In the Toyota, while not as apparently bad as some I have read about, they did occasionally intervene with randomly unnecessary steering movements.
Other than interference from gadgets, the whole driving experience was smooth, quiet and effortless. The 60 profile tyres added to the pillowy ride. As a driving machine it was utterly soulless, with the most artificial steering I have ever encountered in a car. It actually handled the bends rather well, but neither encourages or suits a B road blast. Of course, the point and squirt overtaking acceleration was excellent. I also gained some satisfaction from knowing that I wasn't significantly adding to the pollution of such a beautiful landscape as we silently drifted by.
Norway, unsurprisingly, is well set up for BEV charging with plenty of sites available. I only once found all chargers occupied, so drove less than 1KM to another charging site and plugged in there. They are generally located in supermarket car parks and filling stations, but also at other locations, such as camp sites and tourist destinations. None were vandalised and all were in working order. Sometimes the Toyota seemed to charge quickly and others it decided to take its time. No idea why. The range was OK ish, giving around 360 KMs at 80% charge, but more would always be better. Most of the time, just a 10-minute charge would set us up for a couple of days of local touring, which didn't seem to be too much of a problem.
My conclusion? / TL:DR As a comfortable, easy, stress-free means of family transport it worked very well. With access to a decent charging network I can see no reason why Mr or Mrs Average wouldn't welcome one as their daily. To provide a pleasant and practical alternative to an ICE car for long distance touring, reliable charging options other than loathsome motorway services would need to be available in abundance. I don't think we are there yet in the UK, but I expect it will come.
But... and this is a big but, for me it would only ever work if I also had access to something else, enjoyable to drive at weekends. I will be out in the Alvis later today, giving it some welly, working it up and down through the gears and smiling all the way.
Of course, you can get a tour agency to plan and book it all for you, but we saved a worthwhile four figure sum by doing our own leg work.
Glad it worked for you, I like your open minded approach and of course it will be no comparison to the alvis it terms of engagement, but then I doubt much is.
Worth noting the Toyota is top of my list for dull EV, I test drove most of them in that sort of size and the Toyota bored me to death within about 500 yards. I had it for an extended test drive and I took it back early. As you stated it's fine at what it does but it sure doesn't excite!
Almost everything else is better but probably shades of grey compared to your fun car! (Edit to add most dull of similar sized EV.)
Worth noting the Toyota is top of my list for dull EV, I test drove most of them in that sort of size and the Toyota bored me to death within about 500 yards. I had it for an extended test drive and I took it back early. As you stated it's fine at what it does but it sure doesn't excite!
Almost everything else is better but probably shades of grey compared to your fun car! (Edit to add most dull of similar sized EV.)
Edited by drgoatboy on Sunday 10th August 23:22
drgoatboy said:
Almost everything else is better...
Is it? Do you really think an automatic petrol RAV4 (I assume that would be the closest petrol equivalent?) would be somehow more interesting? In my experience modern mainstream cars are too "good" to be "interesting", regardless of what fuels them.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 9th August 12:51
The Toyota Bz4xyz whatever gets panned for being pretty much the worst BEV currently on sale because it’s such a half arsed attempt, especially from a manufacturer like Toyota.
Aside from it being a crap BEV, it’s the equivalent of an electric RAV4. So I’m curious as to why there would be any mention of it not being exciting enough for an enthusiast to negate the need to keep a fun weekend car. Seriously, what was the expectation here? A RAV4 ICE or similar would be equally as dull and unsatisfying to drive. This is nothing to do with the tech, all to do with the type of vehicle. I’d even argue that the Bz4xyz was actually a nicer drive than the RAV4 because it’s an EV vs an otherwise incredibly dull, weak, and comparatively unrefined ICE drivetrain.
Despite all this, seems you actually came away surprised that it just worked, and actually worked well as a comfortable and practical, albeit dull daily family hauler. Design brief nailed, I’d say, and you’d have come away feeling the same if you’d ended up with an ICE equivalent.
Now imagine what an actually good BEV would be like….
Aside from it being a crap BEV, it’s the equivalent of an electric RAV4. So I’m curious as to why there would be any mention of it not being exciting enough for an enthusiast to negate the need to keep a fun weekend car. Seriously, what was the expectation here? A RAV4 ICE or similar would be equally as dull and unsatisfying to drive. This is nothing to do with the tech, all to do with the type of vehicle. I’d even argue that the Bz4xyz was actually a nicer drive than the RAV4 because it’s an EV vs an otherwise incredibly dull, weak, and comparatively unrefined ICE drivetrain.
Despite all this, seems you actually came away surprised that it just worked, and actually worked well as a comfortable and practical, albeit dull daily family hauler. Design brief nailed, I’d say, and you’d have come away feeling the same if you’d ended up with an ICE equivalent.
Now imagine what an actually good BEV would be like….
kambites said:
drgoatboy said:
Almost everything else is better...
Is it? Do you really think an automatic petrol RAV4 (I assume that would be the closest petrol equivalent?) would be somehow more interesting? In my experience modern mainstream cars are too "good" to be "interesting", regardless of what fuels them.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 9th August 12:51
At first I hated it, and was dreading 3 years with it. But actually its not a bad car, it all works in an unassuming toyota kind of way. Its comfortable and copes with my daily commute on dual carriageways admirably, the sound system is fine and it does wireless carplay. There js no point trying to hustle it down back lanes, but thats not what its for.
Also , in the recent hot weather the climate proved its self to be excellent, i can set the cooling to start 20 mins before i get in, via the app, which my work colleague is unable to do with their hyundai (which js odd, and may be user error)
Edited by sawman on Saturday 9th August 14:49
kambites said:
Is it? Do you really think an automatic petrol RAV4 (I assume that would be the closest petrol equivalent?) would be somehow more interesting?
I read it as he was only comparing it to other EVs. The few automatic (CVT) petrol Toyotas I’ve had the pleasure of driving have been significantly worse than any EV! 
Chris
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