Non linear fuel gauge question
Non linear fuel gauge question
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Discussion

ChevronB19

Original Poster:

7,955 posts

179 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
I’m sure this has been mentioned before, so sorry if I am repeating an old thread.

I started driving in the mid 80’s. Most of the cars I drove were from the mid 70’s. From then, u til about I started getting cars from the early 2000’s, the fuel gauge was broadly linear - as in, if a full tank did 400m, at 100m it was showing a quarter full.

Ever since then, every single car I’ve driven from a full tank, the needle doesn’t budge until at least 50 miles, and often closer to 100, after which it plummets.

Any ideas why?

P.S. don’t get me started on oil pressure gauges like the MX-5 NC, where the ‘brain’ says ‘well I’m doing x revs in gear y, therefore oil pressure must be z’. But the fuel gauge issue seems to be a reverse of that ‘logic’?

KillerHERTZ

1,062 posts

214 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
Fuel tanks arent a uniform size, some have smaller sections at the bottom with larger at the top, thus taking longer to empty the first 'half' than the smaller lower section.

ChevronB19

Original Poster:

7,955 posts

179 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
KillerHERTZ said:
Fuel tanks arent a uniform size, some have smaller sections at the bottom with larger at the top, thus taking longer to empty the first 'half' than the smaller lower section.
Good point which I hadn’t considered. Ok, but I think that with modern tech and odd shaped tanks it wouldn t be the work of a genius to figure some way of doing it.

littleredrooster

5,958 posts

212 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
My first car - a 1947 Ford 10 - had a very erratic fuel gauge. Depending whether the car was pointing uphill or downhill, it showed either half-full or quarter-full. On the move, the needle would dance about merrily giving no real clue as to the contents.

My current two-wheeler is a good example of what the OP describes. I now know that it has a range of about 180 miles, but when I first got it I filled it up and the gauge showed 'F' for 150 miles before dropping to three-quarters. Alarmingly, only 10 miles later it was down to half, then quarter and empty, at which point the fuel light came on and the gauge was blank! Being in the middle of nowhere, I discovered it would do 10 miles showing empty.

So, 30 miles from full to (apparently) bone dry.

nickchallis92

124 posts

102 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
Yeah I used to have a Chevvy C10 pickup which had a fuel tank that was literally a massive box with a sender unit that would bounce up and down with the fuel, and send that sloshing information directly to the fuel tank gauge in the dash.

No dividers in the tank to stop the sloshing. No computers that would measure the tank capacity and average out the readings to provide a useful measurement like modern cars.

And with a carbed 5.7l V8 engine, knowing how much fuel you had was fairly critical information.

The only way you could really tell it was empty was when the needle was at E and wasn't moving anymore...i.e. there wasn't any fuel to push the sender around anymore.

We've come a long way...

phil4

1,494 posts

254 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
If you fill it to the brim, the bit that measures the fuel is lower down in the tank, so it was at 100% before you started filling the neck up to the brim, hence why it stays at full for longer. That's my theory anyway and I'm sticking to it.

sasquartch

109 posts

118 months

Friday 25th July
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Most cars have some sort of 'miles of range remaining' so the fuel gauge isnt so important these days

dcb

5,987 posts

281 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
sasquartch said:
Most cars have some sort of 'miles of range remaining' so the fuel gauge isnt so important these days
I find it quite funny that when the computer runs downto zero on my Octavia,
there are still 60 miles of fuel left. Which means you can do 100-120 miles
on yellow light. More if you start slipstreaming lorries ;->

A few people have been confused by the computer saying there is no fuel left,
then putting in half a tank (25 litres) and getting a fuel reading of 5/8 of a tank.

Either that or Skoda know their customers are a bit "careful" on the fuel front.







Pica-Pica

15,235 posts

100 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
The fuel sender float will never be designed to allow it to touch the top of the tank. Maximum fill will be at or near the top of the tank, so there will need to be some fuel used before the float becomes active.

irc

8,916 posts

152 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
On the other hand if you know the range with a full tank just set the trip.

731 miles on mine last time I filled up.

paradigital

1,040 posts

168 months

Friday 25th July
quotequote all
I’m sure I’ve read that it was a conscious decision to appease the psychology of most customers.

The fact that the needle or gauge moves slower after first filling up makes people less annoyed/upset than if it were linear.

ChevronB19

Original Poster:

7,955 posts

179 months

Saturday 26th July
quotequote all
paradigital said:
I m sure I ve read that it was a conscious decision to appease the psychology of most customers.

The fact that the needle or gauge moves slower after first filling up makes people less annoyed/upset than if it were linear.
I have to admit that was my suspicion.

I’m also surprised that modern cars fuel level is still measure by a simple float, I’d assumed there must be some form of tech that could work it out, including with an irregularly shaped tank.

mike9009

8,337 posts

259 months

Saturday 26th July
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I am driving my 1982 van as a daily at the moment (DS3 off the road for airbag recall).

The fuel gauge is wild. It never sits still for more than 30 seconds and can swing by 1/4 of a tank.

I 'sort of' get used to it as I have owned the van for 14 years. But I do sometimes wonder whether they can enfrom the factory like that???

dontlookdown

2,196 posts

109 months

Saturday 26th July
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Fuel gauge readings are heavily electronically mediated these days, that's for sure.

Back when you got a direct reading from the tank sender, with just a bit of delay built in to the gauge mechanism, the needle moved about a lot more. The gauges in my mum's old Minis used to move driving up a long hill, or even parked with one wheel on the curb.

That's the kind of uncertain but accurate reflection of reality that we don't seem to like any more. Better a smooth and reassuring lie than the messy truth;)

ChocolateFrog

32,183 posts

189 months

Saturday 26th July
quotequote all
Dusters are like that.

You can get 300 miles from the first half and then another 100 for the second half.

In fact there must must be around the same amount of fuel in the bit before the gauge moves as there is in the second half of the tank.

Wills2

26,311 posts

191 months

Saturday 26th July
quotequote all

Never driven a modern car that didn't have a linear gauge, back in the day if you wanted more fuel on the gauge you just drove round in circles or downhill.