Time for my next Porsche - 981 GTS... or 997 C2S/C4S?
Discussion
Hi Folks,
Background. I had a 996.1 C2 Manual Coupe, one of the famed 'early lightweight' cars. It had Sports cats and an aftermarket exhaust, and was in fine fettle. It was an amazing way into Porsche Ownership and I loved it.
I decided I wanted a change last year in April, and I swapped into the car I have now, its a 987.1 Cayman S Manual. Whoever spec'd it originally did a great job of ticking all the great things (Hardback Sports Seats, Sports Chrono, Sports Steering Wheel, Sport Shift kit, etc) and it drives brilliantly.
It's had a few bits and pieces done to it now (IPD Plenum, GT3 TB, BMC Filter, Dansk Exhaust, GT3 Master Cylinder & Braided Hoses, RBF600 Fluid, Centre Rad, Low Temp Thermostat, x51 style Baffled and deeper sump) and unsurprisingly its excellent.
I will say, whilst the 996 was really quite fantastic, I find I'm probably quicker point to point in the Cayman.
I want to keep making my way through the cars, so I am now looking at my next change.
Disclaimer - I will be getting a PDK as I want to give this a try, and honestly, I've got a dodgy knee and whilst the 987 has been much kinder to me, I think I need to pick my battles in life.
So, what do I go for?
I spent a long time thinking I'd go for a 987.2 Cayman R, but I'm sort of thinking that whilst its clearly phenomenal, I'm not sure it will feel different enough for me to justify the extra cost.
That brings me to the other two cars I'm considering. Either a 997.2 PDK, probably in C4S guise as I'm moving house and where we are going is a bit... in the sticks... so would allow more year round use more confidently... or a 981 GTS.
Now in my mind, both should be a pretty decent step up from where I am. However I'm interested in who else from the PH fraternity has done a similar journey.
The 981 GTS looks like a real hoot. Its a generation newer in terms of modernisation, and whilst I know its electric steering, I can't imagine its boring.
In my head, the 997.2 is almost peak 911. A turbo doesn't appeal to me, but I wonder if a 997.2 Widebody C4S would be quite a wonderful prospect. I keep reading all sorts of commentary around how the C4S doesn't have the steering feel of the C2S, but I can't imagine that applies unless you double up as the stig. So many variables around tyres, suspension setup etc can help in that regard.
I've seen a 997.2 C4S PDK Coupe that I'm thinking about going to look at (PCCB, PSE, PASM, hard back sports seats - so I'd imagine quite fantastic fun) but keen for insight please folks.
Background. I had a 996.1 C2 Manual Coupe, one of the famed 'early lightweight' cars. It had Sports cats and an aftermarket exhaust, and was in fine fettle. It was an amazing way into Porsche Ownership and I loved it.
I decided I wanted a change last year in April, and I swapped into the car I have now, its a 987.1 Cayman S Manual. Whoever spec'd it originally did a great job of ticking all the great things (Hardback Sports Seats, Sports Chrono, Sports Steering Wheel, Sport Shift kit, etc) and it drives brilliantly.
It's had a few bits and pieces done to it now (IPD Plenum, GT3 TB, BMC Filter, Dansk Exhaust, GT3 Master Cylinder & Braided Hoses, RBF600 Fluid, Centre Rad, Low Temp Thermostat, x51 style Baffled and deeper sump) and unsurprisingly its excellent.
I will say, whilst the 996 was really quite fantastic, I find I'm probably quicker point to point in the Cayman.
I want to keep making my way through the cars, so I am now looking at my next change.
Disclaimer - I will be getting a PDK as I want to give this a try, and honestly, I've got a dodgy knee and whilst the 987 has been much kinder to me, I think I need to pick my battles in life.
So, what do I go for?
I spent a long time thinking I'd go for a 987.2 Cayman R, but I'm sort of thinking that whilst its clearly phenomenal, I'm not sure it will feel different enough for me to justify the extra cost.
That brings me to the other two cars I'm considering. Either a 997.2 PDK, probably in C4S guise as I'm moving house and where we are going is a bit... in the sticks... so would allow more year round use more confidently... or a 981 GTS.
Now in my mind, both should be a pretty decent step up from where I am. However I'm interested in who else from the PH fraternity has done a similar journey.
The 981 GTS looks like a real hoot. Its a generation newer in terms of modernisation, and whilst I know its electric steering, I can't imagine its boring.
In my head, the 997.2 is almost peak 911. A turbo doesn't appeal to me, but I wonder if a 997.2 Widebody C4S would be quite a wonderful prospect. I keep reading all sorts of commentary around how the C4S doesn't have the steering feel of the C2S, but I can't imagine that applies unless you double up as the stig. So many variables around tyres, suspension setup etc can help in that regard.
I've seen a 997.2 C4S PDK Coupe that I'm thinking about going to look at (PCCB, PSE, PASM, hard back sports seats - so I'd imagine quite fantastic fun) but keen for insight please folks.
Its always so VERY personal.
They are really quite different propositions.
The icon with hydraulic steering and room in the back, and allll the quirks that come with a 911, and like you say, quite a peak era for the thing.
Or mid engine, open top.
For me the 981 would out perform the 997 just, have better tech and sound better
The 997 would simply out 'feel' the 981
Fundamentally though it's how you're going to 'feel' when sat in it.... your heart has already told you which one you want.... admit it.
They are really quite different propositions.
The icon with hydraulic steering and room in the back, and allll the quirks that come with a 911, and like you say, quite a peak era for the thing.
Or mid engine, open top.
For me the 981 would out perform the 997 just, have better tech and sound better
The 997 would simply out 'feel' the 981
Fundamentally though it's how you're going to 'feel' when sat in it.... your heart has already told you which one you want.... admit it.
Quickmoose said:
Its always so VERY personal.
Fundamentally though it's how you're going to 'feel' when sat in it.... your heart has already told you which one you want.... admit it.
Yes, I can see the 997.2 C4S on the drive. Fundamentally though it's how you're going to 'feel' when sat in it.... your heart has already told you which one you want.... admit it.
I also can see my wife being more willing to drive it and give it a blast and be part of the fun as I've spent the last 4 years saying 'for gods sake don't floor it off a wet roundabout'
Shaoxter said:
The PDK in the 9x1 is a pretty big step up from the one in the 9x7 cars. More of a significant factor to consider than the electric/hydraulic steering IMO.
I'd also throw a 991.1 in the mix too around the ~£40k price you're looking at.
Interesting thing I hadn't thought of. I will investigate. Thanks I'd also throw a 991.1 in the mix too around the ~£40k price you're looking at.
The 981 is quite old now, if you've a 40k budget I'd personally add a 718 into the mix which will be better and much more up to date in every dimension except perhaps sound, even then you can go pre-gpf. 981 GTS and 718 base performance are near enough identical, well the 718 maybe a couple of tenths quicker:
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/zcrs16e2ojlt
Steering on the 718 will be better as well, the 981 EPAS is quite an early version and is not great if you're coming from a 987 with hydraulic.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/zcrs16e2ojlt
Steering on the 718 will be better as well, the 981 EPAS is quite an early version and is not great if you're coming from a 987 with hydraulic.
The 981 GTS gives you the littlest but most meaningful taste of what a Porsche GT car is like IMO - sounding properly wonderful on full chat with the PSE option ticked.
I don’t love the DFI in the 997.2 - sounds crap below 4K RPM, and then when you’re throwing AWD into the mix, you really are ending up with the SUV of 911s IMO. Looks pretty though.
Just my 2c having spent time in both.
I don’t love the DFI in the 997.2 - sounds crap below 4K RPM, and then when you’re throwing AWD into the mix, you really are ending up with the SUV of 911s IMO. Looks pretty though.
Just my 2c having spent time in both.
I m new to Porsche so don t have the comparison but the 981 gts really does live up to the hype. I ve done 25k miles in mine with a drivers spec of x73, ptv, manual. They are really spec sensitive so have a couple of drives first. They are modern enough to be reliable, and just fantasticly balanced. The way you build the grip up the side of the car and then have the adjustability mid corner is just addictive. The manual gearing is long, and you will want to ring its neck to get the truely epic noise, so don t bother if your local roads arnt suitable for that. And don’t fret on the steering, it’s not ‘chatty’ but it’s precise and enjoyable. Center gravity and similar can nail the geometry if there’s anything not to your taste.
Edited by Devilspoke on Monday 21st July 20:01
conanius said:
Can someone explain PTV to me. It sounds like there are two versions of it. One appears to just be an LSD, and one appears to be an LSD with electronical braking something ?
Torque vectoring brakes the inside rear wheel when cornering. Here's the marketing blurb:"Working alongside the rear differential lock, PTV works by intelligently braking the rear wheels as circumstances dictate. In order to allow for tight cornering, this feature will apply moderate brake pressure to the inside rear wheel. In turn, this means a greater amount of drive force is sent to the outside rear wheel. This creates an additional rotational pulse, also known as yaw movement, around the vertical axis of the vehicle. Combined, these actions deliver a direct action from the turn-in point, allowing for superior handling"
It will also wear your rear brake pads more quickly...
I went from a 996.2 C2 with a few tweaks (Manthey exhaust, KW dampers etc) to a PDK 997.2 C4S. To be honest I was a bit disappointed with the 997. I liked the PDK, but only in manual shift mode. The auto shift points were terrible. The DFI engine was a bit dull too, but at least they didn’t crap themselves like the 996 versions. I sold it after a couple of years and never missed it. I briefly drove a 991 C4 GTS for a couple of days and that was actually a much more fun car than the 997. Much nicer interior and better sounding engine.
The 997.2 PDK is not the one to buy if considering a 911 - try a 991.1 - they'll be similar in price but the 991 iteration of the PDK box is miles ahead. You'd also be looking at a more representative comparison between 981 and 991.
I'd always choose a 911 over a Boxster or Cayman, even a Base C2/C4.
I'd always choose a 911 over a Boxster or Cayman, even a Base C2/C4.
Count897 said:
The 981 is quite old now, if you've a 40k budget I'd personally add a 718 into the mix which will be better and much more up to date in every dimension except perhaps sound, even then you can go pre-gpf.
Problem with the F4T isn't just sound, it's response and delivery. It's very much a turbo engine in that regard. Great if that's what you like, not so great if it's not.If the OP wants PDK, definitely a string argument for going newer. Moreover, any 997 shares a great deal with a 987, a 981 would provide more contrast with the outgoing 987 than a non-GT 997 would, both in terms of the driving experience and the interior ambience.
Probably worth having a go in a 981. They're quite modern to drive—whether that's a good or bad thing is very personal.
Thanks for all the replies folks. Much appreciated.
- I've scoured the adverts of a few C2S and C4S 997.2 now and it seems those in my budget look quite.... well worn. I found a C4S that had a great spec - bar turbo wheels, eww, but easily solvable - however its got PCCB and the seller doesn't seem to want to answer any questions about them.
- I keep flirting with the idea of a 718 GTS (Cayman or Boxster). I drove a friends and whilst it was clearly very (very) capable compared, I got out feeling a bit....flat... after driving my 987 S. It was without doubt much faster, but it feels like such a shame they couldn't do more with the engine note.
- I keep feeling the 981 GTS Cayman is the sweet spot. If I can find one with the right options (PASM/PSE/Sport Chrono/PDK..... and ideally PTV for the LSD) I think it could be really quite a special upgrade.
- I also found a 981 Boxster S that looks good spec wise, but I think the GTS adds a few things to the interior that make it more.... special?
Need to get my house move over the line (exchange imminent finally, after 1 lost sale that backed out on exchange day and two previously failed purchases) -not long to wait now.
- I've scoured the adverts of a few C2S and C4S 997.2 now and it seems those in my budget look quite.... well worn. I found a C4S that had a great spec - bar turbo wheels, eww, but easily solvable - however its got PCCB and the seller doesn't seem to want to answer any questions about them.
- I keep flirting with the idea of a 718 GTS (Cayman or Boxster). I drove a friends and whilst it was clearly very (very) capable compared, I got out feeling a bit....flat... after driving my 987 S. It was without doubt much faster, but it feels like such a shame they couldn't do more with the engine note.
- I keep feeling the 981 GTS Cayman is the sweet spot. If I can find one with the right options (PASM/PSE/Sport Chrono/PDK..... and ideally PTV for the LSD) I think it could be really quite a special upgrade.
- I also found a 981 Boxster S that looks good spec wise, but I think the GTS adds a few things to the interior that make it more.... special?
Need to get my house move over the line (exchange imminent finally, after 1 lost sale that backed out on exchange day and two previously failed purchases) -not long to wait now.
I was in the same position some years back, I was looking at the Cayman 981 GTS as it ticked all the boxes as a decent upgrade from my 987.2 S, by chance I was given a driving morning by my OPC which turned out to be in a manual 981 GTS with X73 suspension and carbon brakes.
It was lovely and I really enjoyed my morning, while walking back to my car I was thinking this is my next car, however after gettiing back in my own car it was very clear the 981 didn't have the steering feel of the 987, it was so bad it stopped me buying one.
I've had my 987.2 for fourteen years and wouldn't change it for anything current.
It was lovely and I really enjoyed my morning, while walking back to my car I was thinking this is my next car, however after gettiing back in my own car it was very clear the 981 didn't have the steering feel of the 987, it was so bad it stopped me buying one.
I've had my 987.2 for fourteen years and wouldn't change it for anything current.
Clad-Hach said:
I was in the same position some years back, I was looking at the Cayman 981 GTS as it ticked all the boxes as a decent upgrade from my 987.2 S, by chance I was given a driving morning by my OPC which turned out to be in a manual 981 GTS with X73 suspension and carbon brakes.
It was lovely and I really enjoyed my morning, while walking back to my car I was thinking this is my next car, however after gettiing back in my own car it was very clear the 981 didn't have the steering feel of the 987, it was so bad it stopped me buying one.
I've had my 987.2 for fourteen years and wouldn't change it for anything current.
I like the 987 too. My favourite of those was actually the 2.9L. Such a sweet revving engine. I drove that and the 3.4S back-to-back and preferred the 2.9. I almost bought one back then in 2008, but went for another air-cooled Classic 911, which I still own now. It was lovely and I really enjoyed my morning, while walking back to my car I was thinking this is my next car, however after gettiing back in my own car it was very clear the 981 didn't have the steering feel of the 987, it was so bad it stopped me buying one.
I've had my 987.2 for fourteen years and wouldn't change it for anything current.
This is a good thread for me. I'm looking at a Porsche for a new daily driver / sometime fun car.
I've gone from looking at 987.2 Caymans, to 997s, then maybe a 996, to currently settling on a 981 Cayman. Mainly because the price is so close to a 987.2. Appreciate the 987 has the edge on steering feel, but I have a Lotus Elise for that. Overall package of styling, engine, performance, interior, and it's newer, edges it for me. It seems like a real sweet spot.
I want a manual. Partly just because I want a manual, but also because I'm slightly wary of the PDK s
tting itself (rightly or wrongly). Potential running costs are why I've shyed away from a 996/997 for now as well.
I've gone from looking at 987.2 Caymans, to 997s, then maybe a 996, to currently settling on a 981 Cayman. Mainly because the price is so close to a 987.2. Appreciate the 987 has the edge on steering feel, but I have a Lotus Elise for that. Overall package of styling, engine, performance, interior, and it's newer, edges it for me. It seems like a real sweet spot.
I want a manual. Partly just because I want a manual, but also because I'm slightly wary of the PDK s
tting itself (rightly or wrongly). Potential running costs are why I've shyed away from a 996/997 for now as well. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff